Este tópico foi trancado
Golden Bear 18/set./2020 às 20:47
FREE GIVEAWAYS LIKE Epic Games
Steam should make free giveaways like that in Epic store for AAA games once in a month
This will help Valve to beat Epic and stay on the top FOREVER
< >
Exibindo comentários 4660 de 86
Start_Running 20/set./2020 às 16:54 
Escrito originalmente por Walach:
Escrito originalmente por cinedine:
Epic is agressively trying to curb Steam's business and become the next Steam. There is nothing altruistic about them. They buy exclusivity to get customers. They buy giveaways to get customers and at the ame time take away sales from competition.
They literally burn money to curb competition
Steam is freaking big and it doesn't hurt them much, but smaller stores like GOG do suffer under such practices and with them does customer choice. Exclusivity and monopolies are bad for customers and that's what Epic is aiming for under the guise of doing good.
Remember, companies as big as them don't just want your money. They want all the money. And then some.

Take the 12 % they want to establish. They are fully aware that publishers won't forward the savings. And there is something people ten to forget: they have a popular engine they take royalties for. They royalties are paid from the net, which means after the platforms cut. On a 60 dollar game that results in an increase of round about 0.75 dollars.
On a 10 dollar microtransaction ("You agree to pay Epic a royalty equal to 5% of all worldwide gross revenue actually attributable to each Product, regardless of whether that revenue is received by you or any other person or legal entity, as follows" https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/eula/publishing ) that means 13 cents more.
Or in big numbers: for each million (after the first one) a product using their engine makes on a 12 % cut platform opposed to a 30 % one they make a profit of about 13,000 dollars.

So they actively make money from other stores making less, too.

While I do like someone writing a detailed post. I don't really know how to respond to that one. Isn't what you're saying what everyone is doing?

Wouldn't I be able to use the same text you wrote with almost every startup company that has a lot of money, or not even a start up one but a lot of companies or transactions in general?

I have a question if I may:
How would someone go about doing "the right thing" with trying to compete with Steam and/or how to give away free games?

I ask this because I get the feeling you don't agree with what Epic is doing but agree with how Steam is doing? Sorry if I'm getting the wrong idea of what you're trying to say. :)
Worth noting that on Steam for the most part its the developers/publishers that determine when and if a game is free. On EGS. its the store, who ten compensates the publishers for the free copies claimed.



The thing about how EGS does it is that its basically trying to fight with nmoney, not product. If you have the superior product you say, let the market decide. The fact that EGS launched with and still remains an inferior client with fewer offerings doesn't help.
WhiteKnight 20/set./2020 às 18:35 
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Escrito originalmente por Ganger:

This is how capitalism works, dog eat dog. The likes of GOG need to change their own stance on DRM too bring in new developers with the latest AAA+ games or they will stay small or disappear.
Me thinks Gog overestimated the appeal/concern people have over DRM.

GOG made a bad move of removing their fair price program. Honestly i was hoping they would keep expanding by adding more regional currency regional payments & cash cards to bring in more users but nope :(.

Has for DRM the drm that gave me problems are Starforce & Securom. Denuvo far hasn't give me any issue.

I did wish publishers would remove DRM after 2-5 years after the game has been released.
Última edição por WhiteKnight; 20/set./2020 às 18:39
Start_Running 20/set./2020 às 20:13 
Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight:
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Me thinks Gog overestimated the appeal/concern people have over DRM.

GOG made a bad move of removing their fair price program. Honestly i was hoping they would keep expanding by adding more regional currency regional payments & cash cards to bring in more users but nope :(.
Who's pocket was the price difference comming out of?
Little questions like that are very important to ask. And I also guess they've had to divert some amount of funds towards Cyberpunk's development... and they have to absorb the losses of Gwent...

Has for DRM the drm that gave me problems are Starforce & Securom. Denuvo far hasn't give me any issue.
DRM doesn't give most people any trouble. Its only people who try to use the software in ways that violate the EULA that tend to run into trouble.

I did wish publishers would remove DRM after 2-5 years after the game has been released.
On the other habnd it shows that publishers are more and more seeing their games as long term income worth oprotecteing and are more likely to continue development and additions.

SO its a net gain for us as gamers I think.
Ganger 21/set./2020 às 10:10 
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Me thinks Gog overestimated the appeal/concern people have over DRM.

I agree, I would even say that gamers don't give a dam about DRM. I don't believe have I spoke to anyone in the real world who is even remotely bothered about DRM in games. Only once me and a mate spoke about it and none of us really cared.

Anyone who is really against DRM in any shape or form has a very limited catalogue of games to choose from. And anyone on steam who moans about DRM shouldn't even be on steam as this is DRM in itself.

The DRM debate is a non-starter because we all buy and use DRM games.
Casurin 21/set./2020 às 10:20 
Steam a a good platform that offers tons of features for the publishers, developers and community for free.
Epic.... does not. They have to pay publishers quite large amounts of money to even consider the store and are massively in the red - they lose money with the shop and only keep on doing that cause they know at some point Fortnite will no longer generate that income and they need a different source of income and they hope that (and have even openly said so) by using birbes and locking publishers to their store they can continue making money in the future.

Basically worse then Apple.

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Has for DRM the drm that gave me problems are Starforce & Securom. Denuvo far hasn't give me any issue.
DRM doesn't give most people any trouble. Its only people who try to use the software in ways that violate the EULA that tend to run into trouble.
Great joke.
Oh wait - you mean this seriously? let me point and laugh at your ignorance.
Brian9824 21/set./2020 às 10:24 
Escrito originalmente por Casurin:
Steam a a good platform that offers tons of features for the publishers, developers and community for free.
Epic.... does not. They have to pay publishers quite large amounts of money to even consider the store and are massively in the red - they lose money with the shop and only keep on doing that cause they know at some point Fortnite will no longer generate that income and they need a different source of income and they hope that (and have even openly said so) by using birbes and locking publishers to their store they can continue making money in the future.

Basically worse then Apple.

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
DRM doesn't give most people any trouble. Its only people who try to use the software in ways that violate the EULA that tend to run into trouble.
Great joke.
Oh wait - you mean this seriously? let me point and laugh at your ignorance.

DRM in almost every game is un-noticable. The only time it really creates a problem is when its implemented improperly. Like I remember one game using denuvo who miscoded how it was used so it was hitting the authentication server thousands of times a minute. They fixed it and now its fine.

The biggest risk of any DRM is if the service shuts down and the game can no longer authenticate, however almost all modern games have an easy way to alleviate this now.
cinedine 21/set./2020 às 10:46 
Escrito originalmente por Walach:
I ask this because I get the feeling you don't agree with what Epic is doing but agree with how Steam is doing? Sorry if I'm getting the wrong idea of what you're trying to say. :)

There isn't always a need to reply to post if they quote you. I often use quotes to give my piece a bit of context. ;)

But yeah, I do not agree with the Epic way. Competition is good for the consumer because it gives incentive for better service or other ways to get you as a customer. And don't get me wrong on this, free games is a great one. Buying exclusivity is not. Running a shop at a loss because you can subsidise just to ruin your competition is although not something I agree with.

I don't agree with everything Steam does ... well, not they are doing much. The community and point shop for example are meaningless for me. Some of the stuff in there I do oppose. I often call it a freemium community because quite some features are behind a paywall. Understandably in some cases, but not really customer friendly.

In another post you said it's a pitty that GOG stopped their fair pricing policy. Well, that was a direct result of Epic threatening their business and they getting into financial troubles.
That's why I can't support them. They make the market as a whole worse. And it might be because I am a cynical arsehole, but they do it under the guise of being customer friendly and doing it "right" when in truth they play a weird mixture of long game and short term gains.
Tito Shivan 21/set./2020 às 11:11 
Escrito originalmente por Ganger:
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Me thinks Gog overestimated the appeal/concern people have over DRM.

I agree, I would even say that gamers don't give a dam about DRM.
The issue with GOG is it outgrew its original concept. It's in the name itself:
'Good Old Games'
It started as a niche concept: 'Recover old games so they can work in modern systems' From there it built up to a 'DRM-Free' Storefront Idea, which is still catering to a niche audience.

The problem with GOG is its niche is dragging their ability to grow up. If they want to get BIG they have to drop their DRM stance to get the big names to sell in the store and their niche customers might see that as an act of 'treason'

Escrito originalmente por Casurin:
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
DRM doesn't give most people any trouble. Its only people who try to use the software in ways that violate the EULA that tend to run into trouble.
Great joke.
Oh wait - you mean this seriously? let me point and laugh at your ignorance.
Not a joke though. For the average gamer Joe all the subjects that fill pages of discussions and gaming articles are mostly non-existant to them.

I work in a enviroment where one finds a lot of 'people who plays games' (Not to confuse with 'Gamers') and it's funny how I never see the subjects one reads here when they discuss games.
That includes:

-DRM: I've never heard anyone even mention Denuvo
-Client Wars: 'I grabbed Subnautica for free the other day at Epic. Cool game!'
-Microtransactions: Well, no. They actually speak about them. About which skins they got at Overwatch or the cards they got at FIFA.

Most of the people just play games.
Última edição por Tito Shivan; 21/set./2020 às 11:11
Brian9824 21/set./2020 às 11:16 
Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:
Escrito originalmente por Ganger:

I agree, I would even say that gamers don't give a dam about DRM.
The issue with GOG is it outgrew its original concept. It's in the name itself:
'Good Old Games'
It started as a niche concept: 'Recover old games so they can work in modern systems' From there it built up to a 'DRM-Free' Storefront Idea, which is still catering to a niche audience.

The problem with GOG is its niche is dragging their ability to grow up. If they want to get BIG they have to drop their DRM stance to get the big names to sell in the store and their niche customers might see that as an act of 'treason'

Escrito originalmente por Casurin:

Great joke.
Oh wait - you mean this seriously? let me point and laugh at your ignorance.
Not a joke though. For the average gamer Joe all the subjects that fill pages of discussions and gaming articles are mostly non-existant to them.

I work in a enviroment where one finds a lot of 'people who plays games' (Not to confuse with 'Gamers') and it's funny how I never see the subjects one reads here when they discuss games.
That includes:

-DRM: I've never heard anyone even mention Denuvo
-Client Wars: 'I grabbed Subnautica for free the other day at Epic. Cool game!'
-Microtransactions: Well, no. They actually speak about them. About which skins they got at Overwatch or the cards they got at FIFA.

Most of the people just play games.

Or they just stay as is I mean not everyone has to be one of the big stores. They carved a niche and appear to be successful. That doesn't mean they need to challenge others to try to upsurp them.
The Old Bear 21/set./2020 às 11:19 
Escrito originalmente por Ganger:
Giving free AAA+ games away will not help steam beat epic but will cost valve money, what will help valve is to start buying the rights to future AAA+ games as exclusives.

^^ now were talkin'
Ganger 21/set./2020 às 11:20 
Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:
The issue with GOG is it outgrew its original concept. It's in the name itself:
'Good Old Games'
It started as a niche concept: 'Recover old games so they can work in modern systems' From there it built up to a 'DRM-Free' Storefront Idea, which is still catering to a niche audience.

The problem with GOG is its niche is dragging their ability to grow up. If they want to get BIG they have to drop their DRM stance to get the big names to sell in the store and their niche customers might see that as an act of 'treason'

:steamhappy:
cinedine 21/set./2020 às 11:26 
Escrito originalmente por The Old Bear:
Escrito originalmente por Ganger:
Giving free AAA+ games away will not help steam beat epic but will cost valve money, what will help valve is to start buying the rights to future AAA+ games as exclusives.

^^ now were talkin'

Yeah. In circles. Exclusivity is bad. No matter who does it. A customer should be free to decide which platform they buy a product on. Preferrable the platform that has the best service or incentive to buy the game on it.

What do you think will happen if stores start bidding wars for the right to sell products? Do you really think that the customer will benefit from it in the long run?
Última edição por cinedine; 21/set./2020 às 11:26
The Old Bear 21/set./2020 às 11:36 
Escrito originalmente por cinedine:
Escrito originalmente por The Old Bear:

^^ now were talkin'

Yeah. In circles. Exclusivity is bad. No matter who does it. A customer should be free to decide which platform they buy a product on. Preferrable the platform that has the best service or incentive to buy the game on it.

What do you think will happen if stores start bidding wars for the right to sell products? Do you really think that the customer will benefit from it in the long run?

I agree.

But, I am selfish and I'm tired of waiting for games that end up on Epic. It is nothing against them. I just want my library here on Steam.Epic is not going to stop and I don't want to wait. This leaves buying rights before Epic get's them the only solution.
Brian9824 21/set./2020 às 11:36 
Escrito originalmente por cinedine:
Escrito originalmente por The Old Bear:

^^ now were talkin'

Yeah. In circles. Exclusivity is bad. No matter who does it. A customer should be free to decide which platform they buy a product on. Preferrable the platform that has the best service or incentive to buy the game on it.

What do you think will happen if stores start bidding wars for the right to sell products? Do you really think that the customer will benefit from it in the long run?

Yep, exclusivity helps no one and its why Epic has backed themselves into a corner. Their platform still sucks, and Epic has been finding most of their "users" are only there for free games or the 1-2 exclusives they care about.

Epic can't maintain the pattern of buying exclusives, and instead of developing a platform people want to use, they are putting the money into the unsustainable practice of exclusives. They haven't been able to convert their "free" users into paid users and have been dipping into Fortnite profits to cover the store loss.

Combine that with their Apple ploy failing and Fortnite revenue numbers dropping and they are in a very dangerous spot right now. They gambled with Apple and it hasn't paid off with Apple calling their bluff and banning them.

Now even the US Federal government is investigating them for their ties with China, so they are being hammered on all sides right now.
Tito Shivan 21/set./2020 às 11:37 
Escrito originalmente por brian9824:
Or they just stay as is I mean not everyone has to be one of the big stores. They carved a niche and appear to be successful. That doesn't mean they need to challenge others to try to upsurp them.
Absolutely. There's enough people already trying to be the 'Next Steam'... And market niches have one interesting factor: Their userbase is very loyal.

Escrito originalmente por cinedine:
What do you think will happen if stores start bidding wars for the right to sell products? Do you really think that the customer will benefit from it in the long run?
I don't think we'll go down that route. It's easier to instead buy the developers and boom you get their games in your platform. Like Epic did with Psyonix, what EA has been doing for decades or like Microsoft who bought not only Minecraft but the whole Bethesda.
< >
Exibindo comentários 4660 de 86
Por página: 1530 50

Publicado em: 18/set./2020 às 20:47
Mensagens: 86