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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Pheace Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:20am 
Too many refunds and you get a warning, plus it only works with DRM-Free games.
ZeoMoon Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:25am 
Originally posted by Pheace:
Too many refunds and you get a warning, plus it only works with DRM-Free games.
Are both of them only for drmfree games ?
MrL0G1C Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:34am 
There is no fix for people abusing the trust of decent developers who have decided to make their games DRM (Digital Rights Management) free. Some people including developers and myself don't like DRM.

If a game doesn't have DRM then it can be copied, same for all media and software.

There have been studies that have shown that piracy does not harm sales. Pirates are often hoarders who don't use most of the media they pirate. Also people pirate because they can't afford to buy the media they pirate. And often when they do find something they really like they buy it in appreciation - that's a sale where one may not have occurred without the piracy, it's an extra sale. But pirated games are typically NOT lost sales because the pirate would not have bought the game. It may sound crazy but the biggest buyers of media are often pirates.

I was never one for pirating games myself, but on one occasion where I did play a pirated game I stumbled across, I liked it enough to pay full price for it.

Summary: Don't worry about it, piracy does not hurt the industry, this sounds counter-intuitive but it has been studied.
Pheace Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:44am 
Originally posted by MrL0G1C:
There have been studies that have shown that piracy does not harm sales.

That is not true. There's been a recent study that wasn't able to prove it harmed sales. They did not conclude as a result that it didn't, just that they couldn't prove it.

There is simply no way to know how a game would have sold with and without DRM, there's far too many variables.

I don't disagree that people who use piracy as a demo can lead to sales, but there's also a group who just pirates when they can and only end up buying games they are forced to buy. Just look at any thread following the recent Jurassic World Evolution release and it's a long stream of people 'caving' because the crack is taking too long.

There's just no decent way of calculating the effect of DRM.
Tito Shivan Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:44am 
And then people wonder why developers put DRM on their games.

Originally posted by ZeoMoon:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/1474222595303867018/
And this.
Offline playtime (like Family shared or free weekend playitme) is accounted when applying for a refund even when it's not added to your profile play time.
MrL0G1C Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:52am 
And of course refunding and then playing games is beyond piracy, when you refund with the intention of still using the product it becomes fraud - a criminal act. Many people who simply copy the occasional thing will stop at committing criminal actions and won't want to risk having their account and payment cards etc blacklisted or worse risk prosecution.
Last edited by MrL0G1C; Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:52am
MrL0G1C Jul 20, 2018 @ 3:00am 
Originally posted by Pheace:
Originally posted by MrL0G1C:
There have been studies that have shown that piracy does not harm sales.
....

There's just no decent way of calculating the effect of DRM.

Inside the Piracy Study the European Union Hid: Illegal Downloads Don't Harm Overall Sales[www.newsweek.com]

'Your illegal downloads of video games, top music acts and even e-books don't harm sales, according to a landmark report on piracy that the European Commission ordered but then buried when the findings didn't tell officials what they wanted to hear.'

"Just look at any thread following the recent Jurassic World Evolution release and it's a long stream of people 'caving' because the crack is taking too long. "

That's a classic example of people paying for a game that they might not have even been interested in had they not been trying to pirate it in the first place - those are extra customers - it's funny that you're actually giving an example of the games industry benefiting from piracy as an argument against piracy.

MrL0G1C Jul 20, 2018 @ 3:09am 
It sounds like part of getting this to work sometimes is by refunding via a browser instead. I can't see most people having a problem with having to use the client to refund.

If people re-installed the client (to wipe play time) before refunding on more than one occasion then that would raise suspicions fast.
Last edited by MrL0G1C; Jul 20, 2018 @ 3:09am
Pheace Jul 20, 2018 @ 3:12am 
Originally posted by MrL0G1C:
Originally posted by Pheace:
....

There's just no decent way of calculating the effect of DRM.

Inside the Piracy Study the European Union Hid: Illegal Downloads Don't Harm Overall Sales[www.newsweek.com]

Yeah, that's the report I was talking about. Quote the report, not what some news article says about it.


"Just look at any thread following the recent Jurassic World Evolution release and it's a long stream of people 'caving' because the crack is taking too long. "

That's a classic example of people paying for a game that they might not have even been interested in had they not been trying to pirate it in the first place - those are extra customers - it's funny that you're actually giving an example of the games industry benefiting from piracy as an argument against piracy.

That makes no sense what so ever... it's not available to pirate so how exactly do you explain the interest came from them looking for it? You need interest to do that to begin with.
Last edited by Pheace; Jul 20, 2018 @ 3:12am
Zefar Jul 20, 2018 @ 1:27pm 
Originally posted by MrL0G1C:
Originally posted by Pheace:
....

There's just no decent way of calculating the effect of DRM.

Inside the Piracy Study the European Union Hid: Illegal Downloads Don't Harm Overall Sales[www.newsweek.com]

'Your illegal downloads of video games, top music acts and even e-books don't harm sales, according to a landmark report on piracy that the European Commission ordered but then buried when the findings didn't tell officials what they wanted to hear.'

"Just look at any thread following the recent Jurassic World Evolution release and it's a long stream of people 'caving' because the crack is taking too long. "

That's a classic example of people paying for a game that they might not have even been interested in had they not been trying to pirate it in the first place - those are extra customers - it's funny that you're actually giving an example of the games industry benefiting from piracy as an argument against piracy.

The thing with that study is that it compared some of the more famous movies or TV shows which are already so popular that don't feel the effect of pirates.
Music in general costs very little to make but has high profits. Specially if it's a good song.

But take smaller games from smaller game studios. World of Goo for example had about 85% piracy rate.
Demi Gods from THQ had so many pirates that their servers wasn't enough and because of that the game got quite the negative rating. I remember reading a whole lot of more cases several years about this but I don't recall where the link to the page is.
While THQ isn't that small they where still affected by it. They had to close down and sell their assets at some point. I'd say that they probably wouldn't have to if people bought their games.
Start_Running Jul 20, 2018 @ 1:42pm 
Studies will always be inconclusive because you can nevcer really say that those who pirate something would have purchased it anyway. Therin lies the rub.

I mean if you put out a table with religious books with a big "FREE" stamped on everything, people will take them, sometimes just out of absent curiosity combined with the lack of any cost beyodnd the time it takes to walk to the table, pick up a book or two, and carry them. Did that free bookstand cost the neearby store which sells those same books any sales? No way to conclusively.

But it can be said that the presence of that free bookstand probably didn't help the bookstore any.

As for the supposed flaw. The level of strength in Steams DRM is completely up to the developer. You can put 10 locks on a door but you can't force the owner of the door to use all or any of them.
76561198001062896 Jul 20, 2018 @ 6:09pm 
sounds like awfully lot of work to dowmload and keep sthg for free
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Date Posted: Jul 20, 2018 @ 2:14am
Posts: 13