安装 Steam
登录
|
语言
繁體中文（繁体中文）
日本語（日语）
한국어（韩语）
ไทย（泰语）
български（保加利亚语）
Čeština（捷克语）
Dansk（丹麦语）
Deutsch（德语）
English（英语）
Español-España（西班牙语 - 西班牙）
Español - Latinoamérica（西班牙语 - 拉丁美洲）
Ελληνικά（希腊语）
Français（法语）
Italiano（意大利语）
Bahasa Indonesia（印度尼西亚语）
Magyar（匈牙利语）
Nederlands（荷兰语）
Norsk（挪威语）
Polski（波兰语）
Português（葡萄牙语 - 葡萄牙）
Português-Brasil（葡萄牙语 - 巴西）
Română（罗马尼亚语）
Русский（俄语）
Suomi（芬兰语）
Svenska（瑞典语）
Türkçe（土耳其语）
Tiếng Việt（越南语）
Українська（乌克兰语）
报告翻译问题
讨论规则及指引
举报此帖
____________________________________________
I don't wanna bother the mods the whole time with posting forum-breaking comments and I asked him if it's ok when I contact him directly via his profile comment section and he said a report is enough.
And as I said I saw very bad behaviour in the forum and checked those profiles over multiple weeks and they never got banned even when they wrote very bad stuff. The problem is that it's "random". Some people get banned fast, some people even get community banned then, but other can be so toxic over days, sometimes weeks. And that's sad.
And yes, you're right. Sometimes I feed trolls. It's not my intention, sometimes I'm maybe too much of a good-believer and just hope that we can have a good discussion. But at least I don't fight back.
I also could add people who need help and explain it per private message and sometimes they add me, but I only want people in my list I play with and/or are good friends. Also sometimes my help isn't perfect but someone else has another idea aswell so the forum is still the best place for help.
____________________________________________
Very good links, I had those in mind already. But I think and hope that this thread kinda shows valve that there is a need for new mods and that they maybe think about some changes...
____________________________________________
I absolutely agree with you. But that's also the reason why I ask here for a change. And yes, we've Killah, luckily, but he is just one person and he has other things to do in his life aswell. Even when he'd be moderating the forum 24/7 he'd have no chance to keep the forum clean, not because he works but but because of the amount of things happen in the csgo forum.
____________________________________________
In my opinion we've enough user in the forum who're very objective and are able to be a mod. I don't call the names here but I'm sure you already know some of them aswell. They should at least get a trial time to look if it works or not.
And yes, disputing the bans is an option, but it's more work for the support mods and it's always disappointing when someone gets banned for (I wouldn't say " completely nothing", but ...) so tiny things which isn't necessary at all. Keep in mind. We've in the forum to help and do everything we can. Beside the thankful user no one is thankful for our work and we don't even need that, but then as a gift getting banned for so tiny things isn't a good way to deal with the helpful forum user.
____________________________________________
Wise words, exactly this. Killah knows the community but the paid mods don't. But again Killah isn't enough for such a huge forum with so many user and threads. The paid mods are not into the forum so another solution (more csgo hub specific mods) would be a better solution in my opinion.
____________________________________________
Yep, exactly. I don't know exactly why Killah is back because they obviously just talked about that private and I don't know why he doesn't stay as a mod, but we all know what will happen when he's gone. It will get worse after it. I'd like to see a staff of like 10 mods with maybe Killah as the main mod for that hub. But not sure, maybe he doesn't want to be a mod and it's his decision.
Thanks for your reply, no need to be offended, not here to rant about mods or anything, just looking for a way to improve the current system because many of the active forum user aren't happy about the current state. Based on the replys of the support mods it's not a goodwill policy, the mods responded with a clear statement that the ban wasn't necessary. Also some user got banned multiple times so the argument that it's a 1-time goodwill decision isn't true at all. It's maybe in some cases, you're right, I get your point. But not in all. When a user get banned 5 times in half a year and every ban get lifted after a support ticket because the ban was a false ban (clearly said by the support mods) then it's not just a 1-time thing.
I also get your point here and that's also what I mentioned as a problem. There is so much content, also so much content with breaking rules but then there is no direct solution. The support of youtube, facebook etc. isn't very good. They also decide wrong very often. Saw enough racist hatespeech there and then when you report it it's not against their rules. It's not a question of having a perfect running system where nothing wrong happens or clear the community entirely, that's not possible. But we can at least reduce the issues and more csgo hub mods would clearly reduce the problem. I kinda feel bad because in my opinion I even report a little bit too much. Sometimes I report a person for every post he write in a thread because every single post is breaking the forum rules entirely. And then I look at the thread multiple days and I don't see that the person got a ban. And he proceeds his bad behaviour for even more days/weeks. So he didn't even get a warning. The best solution in that case is when there are enough mods so one mod can write in the forum, that the user should calm down. That would even help more than just banning him or giving him a warning. Of course it takes time. But many mods can share this time. And to be honest... we currently have so many user actually doing exactly that. But of course they don't listen to the friendly user because the trolls know that they've no mod rights.
There are also a couple of others things to limit the content:
- Game/Vac banned user should post in the vac forum, the vac forum could also get a name change to Vac/Game ban Forum. We get a lot of posts, nearly all of them of course just trolls, who claim to be innocent.
- We get a lot of necro posts in the forum aswell. The Blizzardforum, but also reddit uses a method do autolock threads after no response for 3/6 months. That could help against necro threads.
- We also get spamposts by limited account-user like advertisement for scamsites etc. - In order to get a non-limited account you've to pay 5 dollar. That should be the case for the csgo hub. A new user should still be able to post in other forums of course, not all are bad, some have questions etc.
- Some spam in the forum for the badge because they still think writing a post is still necessary and they don't understand that they only have to use the search function. We should find ways to prevent that aswell. I think the biggest problem for that is that the user use old guides instead of reading the tasks of the badge directly. Maybe the guides can get changed from mods. Not sure how many of those exist tho.
- There are also ways to minize the amount of threads. As we all know many threads will get created multiple times because the user don't use the search function or browse through the forum before they make a thread. So there exist like 10 threads for each topic. When creating a topic and some specific words get used in the title there should be a system which detects actual threads about the same topic and the user who just wants to create a topic should get a message that those threads already exists and that he should use those threads if possible. Some forums use this already and many support sites work as this aswell.
= All these things would reduce the amount of spam etc. - including new mods could minimize the spam, toxicity, unnecessary posts. I'm not a webdesigner so I can't make it, but those are ideas other forums and sites use. With that we'd have less content, more quality content and more mods to moderate the content.
I agree that someone should get banned when he insults another user no matter what. But currently they get banned without insulting someone (as an example). And that's the problem. It's not always objectively, it's more like nitpicking. It's like you see someone on the street and you decide if you dislike or like him only based on what clothes he wear and how he walks. You don't decide based on his opinions, how he speaks or if he's a good person, you just judge him based on very limited measurements. You look at your rulebook, in your rulebook you see that green color is forbitten and then you decide that you dislike him (should get banned). But that the green color has a reason, that it's well written, has a reason and isn't a bad color at all, that's something the decider don't notice. And that's currently the problem. Those objective mods see a text, see the rules and decide. Based on that at least every third comment in the forum has a banreason for non-constructivity etc.
The people who've the right to decide aren't just bots, they should always see the whole. A police officer wouldn't shoot at someone just because he makes a tiny mistake. They close one eye and talk with them. They say: "Ok that wasn't the best you did but don't make it worse). I miss the empathy basically. It's not always necessary to swing the banhammer. Not even for people who break the rules clearly. Sometimes it's a better learning process when the police officer / moderator talks with the person. Heck, even in football you don't even everyone a yellow card for a foul, sometimes a little discussion with the player as a ref is better.
You're right. It takes time. I have no problem with this aswell. Only thing which is sad is when the decisions result in a chain effect: One person doesn't get banned for trolling - but the person who mighty have been trolled get banned. This changes the mentality and attitude of forum user. We already have forum user who attempt to troll more because of it and we've forum user who stopped using the forum because of it. So one of the most important things those paid mods should learn is getting a feeling for the right decision. Some people put really hard work into the forum and when those get banned it's a shot right in the feelings of those user. Mods should learn that their decision can result in a change reaction of bad feelings and negative ways.
Whenever I see a comment which is against the rules I write into the report message exactly what's the problem. Most likely non-constructive stuff, sometimes racism, trolling, baiting, spamming, necroing, all the stuff one comment breaks I write down. With that I kinda show the mods what exactly is the problem with a specific comment. I also write a bit more and explain exactly what the problem is, that he's doing it for days etc. - I think mods who read the banmessage then have a good overview what the problem is.
The process is running since more than half a year, sadly I don't see any improvement yet. And I still don't know why valve fears to give users mod rights. They don't have to pay for it, it's basically a self-running process and the result is a more positive and cleaned up forum. Negative aspects are obviously false bans etc. but that's something we've currently aswell and I'm very sure the new community mods would learn it very fast how to decide correctly (when to give a warning, when a ban, how long etc. pp.). And problems in the forums would get solved way faster aswell.
Yes, the paid mods are clearly better than no moderating at all. But I'm sure we'd get less reports (because community mods would already extinguish the flamewars before they grow) and they could keep the forum much cleaner. Less reports, more people who're into the community and forum, more moderating presence in the forum and direct help from community mods in the threads before people even report them. And that's all for 0 costs and just very low risk that something went wrong. For me it doesn't sound bad. It sounds better than the current paid mod solution.
Yeah and that's why we're all here, to help the IT/Internet through this process. For that we need ideas and solutions and prevention is probably the most important part of it.
Just because someone has an answer to everything doesn’t mean they are capable to be a mod.
I still prefer a solution with non community members as mods.
Realistically this is a game forum and there are very, very few things that require immediate things and aren't ok with being around for 24 hours.
I've even gone out and given my e-mailadres to a few people so they can contact me in times of dire needs, but only once I realised they knew when to contact me for 'serious stuff' (think.. illegal or really gross stuff being spammed).
I don't think you can ever report too much, unless you're just trolling of course. If you've some examples I would love to look into that - there's a few known reasons why reports aren't dealt with but I'm not sure if they apply here:
- People don't enter a reason when reporting (perhaps profile only, not sure if still applicable)
- A report was dealt with, the post is edited and breaks rules and reported again - the new report doesn't show up.
I agree with all of those and they're very good suggestions. It's another thing I've posted about internally since I got back and I do hope it, or other suggestions, do get picked up. I do believe it's time for Valve to improve/overhaul their community, as it's simple the original vision doesn't work anymore.
New mods are added based on the amount of reports (that aren't dealt with).
Some obvious mistakes aside that are generally sorted by a response to moderator message or Support, I don't really have clear examples of that happening. I therefor can't go back and tell the paid mods 'hey you need to learn from this'. So examples are again welcome.
I wholeheartedly agree and think a lot of volunteer moderators feel the same way, this too is something I've adressed. I feel the way things are currently leads to trolls being able to hone their skills and the community aspect of it being lost, and while I've proposed some suggestions it's not something I can comment on publically.
Yes, and I thank you for that. While I already said some things I've proposed internally, that's not something I see a need for to comment on out of the blue (but I can respond to it like I did), it's good if there is a central thread that regulars can express their concerns in a fruitfull manner.
It's rare to see a good, constructive thread like this and I think - while it's gotten quite large, it has a lot of good feedback, sentiment and even some suggestions. I do think the OP was a bit besides the point so I hope people can look past that and see later on.
And I got a 3 day ban for non-constructive + disrespectful post.
What I wrote? Lets see:
- It was a thread about a cheater who said he only used few cheats, no wallhack/aimbot
-> I said he got a game ban which means he got caught by overwatch which means he used more than just the things he claimed he used
Is this non constructive or disrespectful? Decide.
- He had the idea that everyone should see healthbars from enemies through walls (which he could use aswell).
-> I said that his idea is stupid. Simple as that. That's not how cs works. I also had arguments for that, explained stuff.
Is this non constructive or disrespectful? Decide.
- Another forum user mentioned that his account looks bought and had few arguments for that.
-> I agreed with him.
Is this non constructive or disrespectful? A little bit. Yes. It's not directly part of the thread. But it was just one comment, one mentioning based on the fact that many cheat accounts (who've to deal with a lot of those in the forum) look bought. Just a little sidenote. Not a banreason at all. Disrespectful? Again. Just a little sidenote and I guess. That's not disrespectful. Beside that I got a 3 day ban but the user who came up with this argument didn't get a ban (which is good because it's not a banreason at all and hundreds of people write the same things a day without getting banned - which is good aswell).
Then I sum up his behaviour and actions in one little endsentence. I said he's a cheater (duh), he's a liar (many people say that to other persons when they cheat and have bad excuses in the forum aswell which is not bannable at all), he's based on that and his behaviour (beeing a cheater, liar, toxic, racist, ...) a bad person and he should feel ashamed.
When this is bannable nowadays, then 99.9% of all forum user would get banned. And all I wrote are things everyone else writes aswell, most of the time with less to no arguments, without sounding objective etc. - yet I got banned.
So in conclusion:
A guy who's new in the forum, cheated in the game, advertise cheats in the forum and is not only toxic but even a racist guy doesn't get banned.
A guy who's doing the job objectively, answering his posts normally and do what many other do in the same or even better way gets randomly banned.
That's why we need community mods. They would read the whole thread. They would know me and the other user. They would know which what persons we deal on daily basis and they would know what a good and hard (and non-paid) job we do as forum user. Not a paid mod who has no empathy to anything and decides depending on the mood who should get banned and who not. A community mod would also be able to talk with people instead of just banning all. I mean, a racist guy who's doing these negative thinks on purpose should get banned. But an active user who just do the same good thing without any insults etc.? Na.
The perfect solution for that case would be a threadlock, a comment from a mod that he is thankful for all the positive input in the thread and a ban for the toxic person (since he's a racist directly a higher ban, maybe even community ban). That's it. No ban for the other user. No warnings, no nothing. They didn't do anything wrong. They did a good job. They did what they do all the day and all the time and they reported the bad person and didn't keep the flamewar rolling.
Regarding the one goodwill ban -> I got a lot of unbans. More then one.
The bans were due to Forum Posts or regarding my profile. And the answers to my disputes gave me mostly the feeling that it was not „goodwill“. It was just that the original ban was not well thought and by a closer look you could see that the ban was not right.
I answered you on that private.
Very good to hear that you like the ideas and even had those ideas aswell and shared internally. Let's hope we get some nice improvements for the forum in the future!
Hm, in my opinion that's not enough because as I mentioned later community mods also do preventive work. So in conclusion valve would even need less paid-moderators because the non-paid moderators prevent people from reporting other because they find solution for specific problems (flamewars etc.) before they grow.
We also talk about that private and as you said yourself my comment I got banned for:
I can understand that you can't comment about that in public and I welcome that we're the same opinion and that the mods already do steps in the right direction.
It's great to hear that we can work so good together and hope we can find good ways for a better forum and community!
Ive also considered the suggestion about more moderators, possibly picked from the community.
My thoughts on it is that each dev is responsible for their own hub. If they neglect it, by either not moderating it themselves or appointing someone to moderate for them, their forum should be forfeit and locked. (although I'm well aware thst this most likely won't happen).
However, for csgo, and other valve products that have their own forum, they should be under Valves wing, and should be moderated. If they can't deal with it(as we've seen apparant) they should appoint more people to do it. There are plenty of people who's willing to help out in the respective forums. Now, as we've already discussed, there will be growing pains until people get accustomed to the changes.
My suggestion would be to use a senior mod such as Killah or zef as a "commander" for a group of new recruits if you will. These new moderators should obviously not have as much power as the "commanders". Perhaps have them start out with the power to lock threads, and only in specific hubs. Once they get more accustomed and experienced, increase their access.
That way the quantity of moderation will increase, and with the guidance from experienced moderators, so will the quality. And as such, when/if a new recruit overstep their boundaries, the commander can take it up with the person.
We had a similar system for an old clan I was part of back in the day. By no means close in numbers compared to steam, but it could work, atleast for the most active forums.
I can see this future and it´s dark. More drama out there, because people will call bias, etc. There is already enough drama out there.
You must not be familiar with the cs go forums to moderate them. Just be present when you start as a mod there, also "moderate" and participate, like Killah, instead of being invisible and just locking, deleting and banning. That what real moderators do in every other forum/game hub, etc.
The question is if killah wants that of course.
Based on that I'm sure it could work. It's kinda like any community, team, clan, streamer, ... if you see it that way. Someone creates it, the most active, professional and best user then are trustworthy enough that you give them more rights. There are plenty of people who're able for that. I personally don't even agree with all of them all the time and had my discussions with them, but I'm still sure they'd be still a good mod (not gonna call any names here). So those wouldn't be mods based on that I like them, but based on their behaviour etc.
And yes, community mods are important. We need people who are active in the forum, who reminds people of the rules, calm people and discussions down and when it gets too toxic maybe lock the thread and maybe even ban someone. Actually - like caustic said - we've some invisible mods who never do anything in the community, they just (most likely) randomly ban people without any founding. I mean. One person writes something and he get banned for that. 1000 other people write the same and don't get banned. And the thing the persons say isn't even a banreason. That's called randomness and that's not how you moderate a forum.
Just a thought..............
I can think of like you could have coloured name and you could move post to right forum Thread. That will be more harmless from all permissions.