Motion sickness rating for games

[Gdrazzel]

Hi I suffer from motion sickness when playing most first person games, driving games are usually an exception, I'm not sure why. It would be great if you allowed users to rate games for motion sickness say out of 10. I find if I play isometric games eg: Diablo 2 or POE, I never experience it. but often it's hard to figure out if a game is liable to cause this before buying and trying it. It can be very disappointing

[GuRu Asaki]

Motion sickness?

Wouldn't this have to do more with a Genre Category, &
not a Specific Game?

I mean FPS Games, or fast paced Action Games will prob trigger it,
i'd suspect Driving as well, but you claim that it does not seem to be the Case here...

It's probably not added, as they prob figured by now people who have it,
already know which Games to buy...

But it might be a bit hard to dwindle down which ones effect it, & which don't,
as some might get it from 1 type of Game, while others might not...

This is why I think it more comes down to the Genre or Style of Game
you are looking for...

It'd be easier to Factor out these types of Games, then it would to factor out
a Selection of Motion Sickness Games that may or may not Trigger it for you...




I did grow up in the Generation you are coming from, though, so I know
very we'll how Games can effect Motion Sickness... Not that I have it myself,
that is, but it's interesting that you don't get it from Driving Games? o_@

Because Driving Games put you in a Car, that can move slow to very fast
through Cities, & such, with a lot of swaying, drifting, & such on the Roads...

Seeing Buildings, Environments coming at you, & having all the People,
Cars, Bikes, whatever passing you, & moving with you all at the same time,
& in some cases Tanks or GTA Weapons aimed at you, causing explosions,
all at really fast paced speeds on the Road, would I would think be a lot to
take in for someone who has Motion Sickness...

This was not geared twards specifically GTA, I did add it in because if it had
come from a Driving Game, GTA would be prob Top of the List... But I was
talking about Off-Roading, Indie, & Rally Racing, & other types of
Racing Games, as well...

How this does not cause Motion Sickness for you is a bit of odd to me... o_@





If this gets Implemented into an Update on STEAM at some point, people
who have it, will have you to thank for Suggesting this, though... =D


Good Luck with your Suggestion...

& Good Luck with your Game Search, as no one wants to get Ill while
having Fun, right, =D

It is never a good thing... Hope things go we'll...

[EmotionallyBroken]

Cant you tell just by looking at the basic concept of what kind of game it is?

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger

Motion sickness comes in various degrees, people experience it different (as you know). Such a subjective rating wouldn't help, as it will occur that other people would rate a game as "OK" even when you're having issues with it or vice versa.

Do you only experience it when playing the games yourself or also if you watch a Let's Play video full screen?

I still think it would be helpful to know that x percent of players gave a game a high rating .
And to answer your question, yes I get motion sickness standing behind somone who is playing a first person game. If anything its worse!

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Zekiran

OP a lot of times, you can fix this with changing the field of view and turning off motion blur, but frankly not all games even give you those options.

I do honestly think that games which cause motion sickness of any kind in their players should at least give a nod to it - I don't know that a "1 to 10" scale would be in any way helpful, but "some players may experience x thing" would be nice to see.

(Of course what would be BETTER is all games that have motion blur enabled... should allow us to turn it the hell OFF, and adjust the FOV without having to resort to config or ini alterations I'm looking at you Borderlands 2...)

Totally agree, games should give a not to it at least. unless... it becomes ubiquitous and they all put it on there as a from of CYA. I was more asking steam to allow us to rate a game that way to help each other with this problem.

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Gwarsbane

Автор сообщения: brian9824

It's like asking people to rate spicy. Some people can't tolerate much spice, others like it super spicy. One persons definition of "spicy" is vastly different from another users.

This is a great analogy. One of my friends and I love pretty spicy food, we each have a collection of hot sauces. Another friend of ours, likes spicy food, but has no where near the tolerance we have. Now we've both built it up over the years, they have not. Our tasty sauces are in the range of 150,000 to 200,000 scoville though we can go up to 300,000. Our other friend, can't handle anything above 75,000 or so. Many others we know can't stand tabasco sauce which is pretty much like water to us. We do know a couple of people who can out do us for spices.

If handed a random bottle of hot sauce everyone of us would give a different answer on how hot is is. Some people might say it doesn't burn at all, other lay gasping on the floor begging for more water. Just like everyone of us in this discussion area would give a different answer on how bad the motion sickness is in a game. Some people will never notice it, some might slightly notice it, while others are curled up with a bucket 5 minutes into the game and they have not even passed the main menu.

Expect every game to trigger motion sickness, to what extent, well thats up to your body.

Yea I totally get that it's subjective. however a note that something is spicy as opposed to not spicy might be helpful to those with no tolerance at all :)

[Start_Running]

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Автор сообщения: Zekiran

OP a lot of times, you can fix this with changing the field of view and turning off motion blur, but frankly not all games even give you those options.

I do honestly think that games which cause motion sickness of any kind in their players should at least give a nod to it - I don't know that a "1 to 10" scale would be in any way helpful, but "some players may experience x thing" would be nice to see.

(Of course what would be BETTER is all games that have motion blur enabled... should allow us to turn it the hell OFF, and adjust the FOV without having to resort to config or ini alterations I'm looking at you Borderlands 2...)

Totally agree, games should give a not to it at least. unless... it becomes ubiquitous and they all put it on there as a from of CYA.

It actually would be on so many games it would be absurdly ubiquitous. To the point that a person suffering motion sickness would have such a limited safelit that they might as well stick to solitaire!

was more asking steam to allow us to rate a game that way to help each other with this problem.

User-tags are a rthing but same problem.. it would be more common than the pstychological horror tag.

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Yea I totally get that it's subjective. however a note that something is spicy as opposed to not spicy might be helpful to those with no tolerance at all :)

Spiciness is something that can be objectively rated and measured.

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: tlktk

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Hi I suffer from motion sickness when playing most first person games, driving games are usually an exception, I'm not sure why. It would be great if you allowed users to rate games for motion sickness say out of 10. I find if I play isometric games eg: Diablo 2 or POE, I never experience it. but often it's hard to figure out if a game is liable to cause this before buying and trying it. It can be very disappointing

I would love it !

if we could help the industry in order to increase overall quality in games and how new implementations are being made. I can't see anything wrong with that.

I just hope somone is listening!

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Zekiran

And yet there IS still a need for such a thing - or at least, a fix to the problems that cause it. Without enough people actually speaking up saying "jesus this game makes me ill" or "wow I get a serious headache whenever I play --" game manufacturers will continue to offer too few options to fix this for the wide variety of ways that it occurs.

YES! We need to be heard!

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Zekiran

Автор сообщения: Count_Dandyman

And people are speaking and game makers are giving the options as can be seen by people in this very thread pointing out the multiple different things that can cause it and the settings to change to fix them.

This isn't something that is a simple yes or no question and there are always going to be edge cases out there that there is no solution for.

Right - but one of the things that some games DO NOT do, is offer the ability to turn off motion blur or change the FOV. Those things, in my eyes, should be absolutely available in every game out there. There's no excuse for them not to have those.

Автор сообщения: Quint the Alligator Snapper

OP's idea is a meaningful one, though it's just that it's not really easy to do because it's a poorly-researched field with little practical standardization at the moment.

However, I'd say that, as a practical matter, it's pretty easy to categorize games according to some basic criteria:

* camera perspective panning - does the camera move its position relative to the scenery? If so, how?
* camera perspective rotation - does the camera turn its angle relative to the scenery? If so, how -- yaw, roll, or pitch?
* camera zoom - does the camera change its range of view independent of position and angle?
* sensitivity - FOV and mouselook sensitivity, camera sensitivity to panning (e.g. how does the camera respond to the character's movements, particularly important in 2D sidescrollers)
* other graphical settings (e.g. motion blur)

Your basic 2D sidescroller has panning, but rarely anything else.

Modern 2D sidescrollers often use 2.5D which involves both panning and zoom.

FPS and TPS games involve both panning and rotation. FPS involves more rotation, as the camera is tied to the character's head, while TPS allows a greater width of sight but less range without rotation.

FPS rotation involves both pitch (i.e. turning up/down) and yaw (i.e. turning left/right). Some TPS games do this, though it's common to restrict this to over-the-shoulder views.

Roll rotation is rarely used in 3D, though sometimes happens in 2D or 2.5D games (e.g. Sonic bonus stages).

Games also differ in their sensitivity. FOV is sorta how far back the "eyes" are, and also mouse sensitivity to changing perspectives, in 3D games that use mouselook.

I've found that games with high FOV, sensitive mouselook, and particularly input lag with regards to mouselook, are the most nauseating.

I also don't like zoom in 2D/2.5D sidescrollers, but it's more of an annoyance than a nausea-inducing thing.

I guess this is the crux of it. Each player will know what triggers their own nausea. Should they have to buy and try just to find that it is not compatible? I would say NO. The whole minefield could be avoided if each game clearly displayed which views and methods it uses. We would quickly learn abbreviations and learn to stay away from our personal poisons

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Gwarsbane

Автор сообщения: Zekiran

We... already know that.

Steam, however, is a very large platform and in order to point individual game developers or their PR/Marketing department at WHY such a thing is needed, threads like this should remain and get some amount of attention.

No developers are looking here for ideas for their page. Valve will not tell developers that they should have this stuff on their page.

Do you honestly think that large game companies who invest millions developing games, do not keep an ear to the ground to hear what their clients (which is what we are) are saying about them? They would be crazy not to.

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: 250RoundMags

Cant you tell just by looking at the basic concept of what kind of game it is?

Often Not, it's about how the camera interacts with the subject and environment.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

I guess this is the crux of it. Each player will know what triggers their own nausea. Should they have to buy and try just to find that it is not compatible? I would say NO. The whole minefield could be avoided if each game clearly displayed which views and methods it uses. We would quickly learn abbreviations and learn to stay away from our personal poisons

Except there is no standards for how those things are done.

The way one implements field of view or motion blur may differ from another. One can cause a person motion sickness, then the other game does not.

There are too many variables and that is even if we exclude the human factor of what causes it for one, may not cause it for another.

Games are one thing that would have to be tried to determine if it can cause motion sickness. Even then, changing aspects with in the game may cause still cause an issue, eg: May be fine with FPS view and fighting, then get sick when driving a vehicle in the game.

Motion sickness isn't life threatening like epilepsy, so it isn't likely to get any such rating or warning.

There is a refund system in place if need be, to minimize such risks.

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Yea I totally get that it's subjective. however a note that something is spicy as opposed to not spicy might be helpful to those with no tolerance at all :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale

There is a scale for spiciness. It is the effects on the person that are not warned as, like with motion sickness, they differ from person to person and each should know what they can handle and what they can't.

There is no way to measure motion sickness from a game, so what you are asking for isn't even usable by people in any meaningful way. It would just turn users off of a game they may otherwise have enjoyed.

[Ghostman]

Rather than having a motion sickness rating,
Maybe steam could add a tag to the game like "Fast camera movement*" and then a description of that tag could be "*May cause motion sickness".
Some community driven research about the affects of the motion blur effect in games on people who suffer from motion sickness would be beneficial in my opinion and would give more weight for the steam dev team @valve to do something.

Either that or it could let players manually enter motion sickness scores for games then average it out and have some kind of approval system or something. (probably bad)

Either way I support your cause and hope steam does something about it as Motion sickness can be awful for those people that have it.

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Hi I suffer from motion sickness when playing most first person games, driving games are usually an exception, I'm not sure why. It would be great if you allowed users to rate games for motion sickness say out of 10. I find if I play isometric games eg: Diablo 2 or POE, I never experience it. but often it's hard to figure out if a game is liable to cause this before buying and trying it. It can be very disappointing

Well I have learned so much from you all.

Автор сообщения: Gdrazzel

Автор сообщения: GuRu Asaki

Motion sickness?

Wouldn't this have to do more with a Genre Category, &
not a Specific Game?

I mean FPS Games, or fast paced Action Games will prob trigger it,
i'd suspect Driving as well, but you claim that it does not seem to be the Case here...

It's probably not added, as they prob figured by now people who have it,
already know which Games to buy...

But it might be a bit hard to dwindle down which ones effect it, & which don't,
as some might get it from 1 type of Game, while others might not...

This is why I think it more comes down to the Genre or Style of Game
you are looking for...

It'd be easier to Factor out these types of Games, then it would to factor out
a Selection of Motion Sickness Games that may or may not Trigger it for you...




I did grow up in the Generation you are coming from, though, so I know
very we'll how Games can effect Motion Sickness... Not that I have it myself,
that is, but it's interesting that you don't get it from Driving Games? o_@

Because Driving Games put you in a Car, that can move slow to very fast
through Cities, & such, with a lot of swaying, drifting, & such on the Roads...

Seeing Buildings, Environments coming at you, & having all the People,
Cars, Bikes, whatever passing you, & moving with you all at the same time,
& in some cases Tanks or GTA Weapons aimed at you, causing explosions,
all at really fast paced speeds on the Road, would I would think be a lot to
take in for someone who has Motion Sickness...

This was not geared twards specifically GTA, I did add it in because if it had
come from a Driving Game, GTA would be prob Top of the List... But I was
talking about Off-Roading, Indie, & Rally Racing, & other types of
Racing Games, as well...

How this does not cause Motion Sickness for you is a bit of odd to me... o_@

If this gets Implemented into an Update on STEAM at some point, people
who have it, will have you to thank for Suggesting this, though... =D


Good Luck with your Suggestion...

& Good Luck with your Game Search, as no one wants to get Ill while
having Fun, right, =D

It is never a good thing... Hope things go we'll...

You are right about Genre. For me at least. I can be 99% sure that a FPS will make me sick and that a isometric won't.

So often games don't even state what view/s they offer.

About the driving, I have probably driven millions and millions of kilometers in my life to date, and still going far and fast in r/t. I think this has programmed that part of my brain to suspend disbelief when in a car in a game. Not to say I don't get sick, but I can play for say 2 hours and only get mild discomfort. Its worth the sacrifice.

[Gdrazzel]

Автор сообщения: Elevenones

Rather than having a motion sickness rating,
Maybe steam could add a tag to the game like "Fast camera movement*" and then a description of that tag could be "*May cause motion sickness".

Either that or it could let players manually enter motion sickness scores for games then average it out and have some kind of approval system or something.

Either way I support your cause and hope steam does something about it as Motion sickness can be awful for those people that have it.

My initial thought was your second suggestion.