Paypal dispute - Steam Blocking Game

[NeuroMnemonic]

Hello all

I recently purchased a game that was fundamentally broken. The support for the game was non-existent from both the developer and on the steam forums.

I decided to open a paypal dispute through lack of other channels. Tried finding some way to contact Steam first but could not. Today I had this message and the game I purchased was blocked:

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Steam Support Alert for rogue_drow - 29 November
A recent Steam Store transaction has been disputed by PayPal.

25 Nov£6.99
Dark Matter
How to resolve the dispute:

The dispute must be closed on the PayPal website. To do this, log in to your PayPal account and respond to the case in "My Account > Resolution Center". Once the dispute is closed and the funds are released back to Steam, your content will be accessible again.

If you are having any issues or difficulties with the purchase itself, please close the dispute with PayPal and allow us to help you by contacting us directly.


You will not have access to the disputed content until the dispute is resolved.
----

Steam tells me this paypal dispute MUST BE CLOSED and won't help me until I close it. Upon looking at the paypal dispute, if I close the dispute it shows I "accept everything was resolved" and I'm happy with the outcome.

So unless I lie to paypal and tell them everything is fine, Steam won't help?

Anyway, I closed the paypal ticket in good faith that Steam has some kind of solution and would start communication now, in order to fix the game.

Closed the paypal case immediately after getting the message and opened a ticket with Steam as instructed. It's been about nine hours now.

Nothing yet. Game is still blocked on Steam.

Anyone know if there is a better channel to contact steam or if they have experienced this themselves? Anyone know the turn around on steam?

[Cathulhu]

Support tickets are the only way and Steam Support does not give support for third party games, contact the developer instead.

[NeuroMnemonic]

Hello


Tried contacting the developer but didn't get anywhere. The forums are littered with failed attempts of getting their problems solved.


Got a steam ticket but no reply yet.

Thanks

[Sierra Oscar]

The only way to contact Steam to discuss account / billing issues is through the Steam support ticket system. You will have to wait for them to get back to you, it can take a few days.

[TirithRR]

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

Hello


Tried contacting the developer but didn't get anywhere. The forums are littered with failed attempts of getting their problems solved.


Got a steam ticket but no reply yet.

Thanks

You said it's only been 9 hours. It wll probably be a week or so before you get an answer.

You will have to wait.

Next time, don't defraud Steam :)

[NeuroMnemonic]

Originally posted by Sierra Oscar:

The only way to contact Steam to discuss account / billing issues is through the Steam support ticket system. You will have to wait for them to get back to you, it can take a few days.

Urgh they block my account stuff immediately but won't reply for a few days? Christ...

Originally posted by TirithRR:

Next time, don't defraud Steam :)

Perfectly legit reverse transaction for damaged goods ;) Paypal permits it. I was going to leave the payment reverse... but decided to let them try to fix it first.


Prolls just going to reverse the transaction at this rate.

[Silicon Vampire]

and Valve's perfectly legit response to fraud is to lock your account.

PayPal is notorious for dragging things out \, then telling you there is np way to reverse the charge-back you initiated.

You need to do that right away...

[NeuroMnemonic]

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

and Valve's perfectly legit response to fraud is to lock your account.

PayPal is notorious for dragging things out \, then telling you there is np way to reverse the charge-back you initiated.

You need to do that right away...

What fraud? I no longer wanted the defective game if there was to be no support. That's called returns, not fraud. I don't think you understand the situation? :/



Paypal was already initiating the charge back. I've done it before, seemed fine in the past. Done it with my bank too. Not sure why you've struggled.



Do what right away? Reverse the charge back? Already said I did. No reply from Steam though.



Thanks anyway....

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

What fraud? I no longer wanted the defective game if there was to be no support. That's called returns, not fraud. I don't think you understand the situation? :/



Paypal was already initiating the charge back. I've done it before, seemed fine in the past. Done it with my bank too. Not sure why you've struggled.



Do what right away? Reverse the charge back? Already said I did. No reply from Steam though.



Thanks anyway....

You agreed to the SSA as well as the part about no refunds. You violated that agreement. If you had been patient, waited for a reply and show support you tried everything to fix it, there would have been a chance at a proper refund.

Your only option now is to wait for support to get to your ticket.

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

ALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.

[NeuroMnemonic]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

What fraud? I no longer wanted the defective game if there was to be no support. That's called returns, not fraud. I don't think you understand the situation? :/



Paypal was already initiating the charge back. I've done it before, seemed fine in the past. Done it with my bank too. Not sure why you've struggled.



Do what right away? Reverse the charge back? Already said I did. No reply from Steam though.



Thanks anyway....

You agreed to the SSA as well as the part about no refunds. You violated that agreement. If you had been patient, waited for a reply and show support you tried everything to fix it, there would have been a chance at a proper refund.

Your only option now is to wait for support to get to your ticket.

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

ALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.

I waited four days for a reply but had none. How is that not patient? If something, somewhere at any point had said "You must wait X days for a reply" then surely I would have waited - I've waited _months_ for support with no reply before... I'm still waiting for replies on some games and tbh I'm really tired of getting absolutely no reply but the second you reverse a transaction they act immediately. Doesn't that seem one sided to you?

The SSA is fine providing it upholds the law and my rights. The second it violates any of those rights, such as my rights as a consumer, it becomes invalid. Steam invalidated their own contract there. That's basic law... you can sign a contract saying "You can kill me if I try to get a refund" but it doesn't mean Steam can lawfully do it.

Regardless I can still reverse the transaction on paypal/credit card and get a refund, it takes a few forms but I've done it with my bank before. It's honestly not my only option.



I'd rather not, I'd rather work with Steam - but Steam seems disinterested in speaking with me.

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

What fraud? I no longer wanted the defective game if there was to be no support. That's called returns, not fraud. I don't think you understand the situation? :/

In fairness, you took the action without even getting in contact with Steam support - in future it is best to get in contact with support before doing something like that.

The forums merely offer peer to peer user support, you have to submit a support ticket to actually get in contact with Steam support.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

I waited four days for a reply but had none. How is that not patient? If something, somewhere at any point had said "You must wait X days for a reply" then surely I would have waited - I've waited _months_ for support with no reply before... I'm still waiting for replies on some games and tbh I'm really tired of getting absolutely no reply but the second you reverse a transaction they act immediately. Doesn't that seem one sided to you?

People have been reporting as long as two week wait time.

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

The SSA is fine providing it upholds the law and my rights. The second it violates any of those rights, such as my rights as a consumer, it becomes invalid. Steam invalidated their own contract there. That's basic law... you can sign a contract saying "You can kill me if I try to get a refund" but it doesn't mean Steam can lawfully do it.

We aren't talking about someone's life, but a game. One that you purchased a limited license for, then did a chargeback, violating your agreement. You are at fault with this. You did not wait for an answer.

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

Regardless I can still reverse the transaction on paypal/credit card and get a refund, it takes a few forms but I've done it with my bank before. It's honestly not my only option.

If they contest it and show the agreement, the bank returns the money and that goes as a potential act of fraud as you were charging back a legitimate purchase.

Even if they didn't contest it, they would have the right to sue you as well. Heck, they even have the right to terminate your account.

All of this is perfectly legal too.

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

I'd rather not, I'd rather work with Steam - but Steam seems disinterested in speaking with me.

Valve, not Steam, has 100m+ customers. It wasn't their fault you had no patience to wait for them to get to your ticket.

Even if you reversed the chargeback, they still get charged by their bank for the money having been removed to begin with. They don't get compensated for that. A $60 game charged back, Valve takes a $62 loss, at the least. $18 profit from the sale, $60 taken back and $20 fee from the bank.

[Vertigo]

PayPal is not good...

PaySaveCard ios better. save and quick!

[NeuroMnemonic]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

I waited four days for a reply but had none. How is that not patient? If something, somewhere at any point had said "You must wait X days for a reply" then surely I would have waited - I've waited _months_ for support with no reply before... I'm still waiting for replies on some games and tbh I'm really tired of getting absolutely no reply but the second you reverse a transaction they act immediately. Doesn't that seem one sided to you?

People have been reporting as long as two week wait time.

That's really bad. Don't you think?

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

The SSA is fine providing it upholds the law and my rights. The second it violates any of those rights, such as my rights as a consumer, it becomes invalid. Steam invalidated their own contract there. That's basic law... you can sign a contract saying "You can kill me if I try to get a refund" but it doesn't mean Steam can lawfully do it.

We aren't talking about someone's life, but a game. One that you purchased a limited license for, then did a chargeback, violating your agreement. You are at fault with this. You did not wait for an answer.

I am not at fault with this. I fail to see how when I purchase a defective product and I do not get a reply in a reasonable time or any indication of how long it will take, and in the past it has taken months, that I act on that premise. I really disagree - this kind of practice is not what trading standards or any other regulator would consider to be reasonable. I'm surprised you think we have no rights as consumers.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

Regardless I can still reverse the transaction on paypal/credit card and get a refund, it takes a few forms but I've done it with my bank before. It's honestly not my only option.

If they contest it and show the agreement, the bank returns the money and that goes as a potential act of fraud as you were charging back a legitimate purchase.

"Potential" act of fraud is easily debunked so I'm not really worried about potentials. Steam did not contest/post anything in the paypal resolution centre, which seems odd to me, if they were completely in the right, why not just end it there? Or better yet, just reply in the first place? Agreements again mean nothing if rights weren't upheld, paypal will be aware of these consumer laws etc~

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Even if they didn't contest it, they would have the right to sue you as well. Heck, they even have the right to terminate your account.

All of this is perfectly legal too.

They wouldn't have the right to sue a customer they provided a defective product to, who tried to seek a refund, through a method Steam agreed to with Paypal. That's completely unlawful.

Terminating the account would only escalate the situation, cost them a customer of 10 years and all that jazz. Rather foolish move. Again there is nothing legal about cancelling an account of a customer who tries to contact them and uses only their consumer rights to do so. I've not broken any laws, I've merely tried to open dialogue with Steam, of which they have not replied to.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

I'd rather not, I'd rather work with Steam - but Steam seems disinterested in speaking with me.

Valve, not Steam, has 100m+ customers. It wasn't their fault you had no patience to wait for them to get to your ticket.

It is exactly their fault that they have not allocated enough reasources to deal with customers in a timely matter.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Even if you reversed the chargeback, they still get charged by their bank for the money having been removed to begin with. They don't get compensated for that. A $60 game charged back, Valve takes a $62 loss, at the least. $18 profit from the sale, $60 taken back and $20 fee from the bank.

On both my business account and personal account there have never been these charges you speak of. Even if there were, they could have avoided this situation by at any point, responding to me. If it has in some way cost them, it's their own fault.

[NeuroMnemonic]

Originally posted by Sierra Oscar:

Originally posted by Drowz0r:

What fraud? I no longer wanted the defective game if there was to be no support. That's called returns, not fraud. I don't think you understand the situation? :/

In fairness, you took the action without even getting in contact with Steam support - in future it is best to get in contact with support before doing something like that.

The forums merely offer peer to peer user support, you have to submit a support ticket to actually get in contact with Steam support.

Paypal notifies Steam when a dispute is opened. I haven't just immediately taken the money from them, I've opened a dispute saying "This item is defective, can you provide a refund (as disputes are between seller and buyer, only when escalated do they go to paypal as well).


If I had reasonable replies from Steam in the past I probably would have opened a ticket (though finding the right area to do an appropriate ticket is hardly easy) and left it there for weeks without worrying or something but I don't know why we have to wait ages for a reply when they respond immediately through paypal. This just encourages people not to raise support tickets...

[Spawn of Totoro]

This has gone on far enough. You violated the agreement and have no one but yourself to blame.

This time all you can do is wait for support or wait out the 9 weeks.