Every patch reinstalls full game

[thegeodemon]

Been having this problem ever since the last change to Steam's new look.

Whenever a game needs a patch, it will download a small patch- say 103mb.
Then the total patch my HD has to write is the entirety of the game size - 20+gigs.
It is always the full size of the game, as if it was starting from scratch.

So the download part is super fast, like 3- 5 seconds. Then it takes 10-15 minutes for my NVME HD to finish the patch because the total patch size always reads the same as the entire installed game.

This happens on every game, every patch. So if a game is 8.4 gigs, then each patch I need to wait for 8.4gigs. If a game is 39 gigs- the patc hwill be 39 gigs even if the update is only 100mb.

I've tried reinstalling steam, changing install directories, and turning on and off cloud sync. I just can't figure it out. It sucks to take 20 mins to install a patch that should be sub 10 seconds.

[crunchyfrog]

MonkehMaster eredeti hozzászólása:

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

No never said it was. As the evidence I provided you shows, it's philosophy.

You don't get to escape burden of proof. YOu have provided ZERO for your claims, so it msu t be dismissed as nonsense.
Simples.

Otherwise, consider this - you are a thief whose words cannot be trusted here. Evidenee? I don't need to this isn't court.

See? Cuts both ways doesn't it?

you have provided nothing and i dont care what your arguments are, see how that works?

hat's because I never made a claim did I?

Everyone here can see you claimed there'd been a change to how downloads work yet not only can you not say what it is, you can't even point to it.

That speask volumes.

So unless you can show this, I'm afraid you have nothing.

We're done.

[MonkehMaster]

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

MonkehMaster eredeti hozzászólása:

you have provided nothing and i dont care what your arguments are, see how that works?

hat's because I never made a claim did I?

Everyone here can see you claimed there'd been a change to how downloads work yet not only can you not say what it is, you can't even point to it.

That speask volumes.

So unless you can show this, I'm afraid you have nothing.

We're done.

yet i dont care to prove anything to you, see how that works?

we done? good, let the people with the topic issue talk and stop harassing us.

bye

[persona2074]

I know this topic has devolved into one guy harassing everyone claiming to have an issue but here is what works for me so far if anyone is listening; Had to replace my SSHD which was a) not working properly but also B) bottle-necking my write speeds and conversely slowing my download speeds (steam relies on unpacking files and writing to disk as fast as it can DL, if it slows down on the write end of things the DL is throttled). Couple that with some publishers just sucking ass at pushing updates that actually do replace file by file and you have slower speeds. Now my only issues are with certain games like Icarus, while most games update in seconds when i boot up steam. Almost seems like small dev teams with less money = slow updates and big dev teams with large budgets = fast updates but could be confirmation bias.

TLDR; if you have 100% disc usage during slow updates get a new M.2 SSD so you can has fast write spd and not poop on your download.

[MonkehMaster]

persona2074 eredeti hozzászólása:

I know this topic has devolved into one guy harassing everyone claiming to have an issue but here is what works for me so far if anyone is listening; Had to replace my SSHD which was a) not working properly but also B) bottle-necking my write speeds and conversely slowing my download speeds (steam relies on unpacking files and writing to disk as fast as it can DL, if it slows down on the write end of things the DL is throttled). Couple that with some publishers just sucking ass at pushing updates that actually do replace file by file and you have slower speeds. Now my only issues are with certain games like Icarus, while most games update in seconds when i boot up steam. Almost seems like small dev teams with less money = slow updates and big dev teams with large budgets = fast updates but could be confirmation bias.

TLDR; if you have 100% disc usage during slow updates get a new M.2 SSD so you can has fast write spd and not poop on your download.

im currently running this...

--------------

OS:

win 7 pro 64bit

CPU:

i7 6850k 6 core @4.0ghz (no manual overclock)

GPU:

asus rog strix 1080 8GB ddr5x vram (no manual overclock)

RAM:

64GB ram g-skill trident z ddr4 3000mhz (no manual overclock)

SSD/HDD:

1TB samsung 960 pro nvme m.2 ssd (OS)

250GB samsung 860 evo msata (paging file)

1TB samsung 850 pro 2.5 ssd (games)

western digital 4TB gold (storage)

----------------------

my "games" sata ssd, where all of my game are stored, isnt running at 100%, nor is my cpu.

also if i had put my games on the m.2, im guessing the issue would still be there.

hdd's or the like, i dont use for games.

both my cpu and ssd's can handle my internet speed, ect..

as for anything else, im not sure, especially when literally everything else on the internet download wise can download quickly at my max speeds, yet steam cant seem to do this anymore, like it did years ago with no issues.

i have seen games DL/install at quick speeds, while others DL/install at very slow speeds, on the slower ones, the DL speed drops slowly to zero and starts and stops frequently, while the fast hits max speeds and doesnt drop out.

size of the DL doesnt seem to matter, ive seen small and large alike go fast and slow, seem some devs are using a specific patch/update process that is slow and annoying, while others are using the old tried and true patch/download process that gets done fast

[persona2074]

yeah its def not your PC. im not having the issue on my new SSD, i run a consistent 28MBPS on both DL and write speeds for even my worst offenders, while on my old SSHD that i kinda think is now an HDD with a burnt out SS i get that drop out in DL and slow fall to sudden peaks on my write speed, it can grind all the way down to KBPS at times which is infuriating. like whatever its doing is bogging down my disc to the point of nearly crashing my PC. Id love to put another SSD in but im po' lol, some games gotta go on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ slow drive. hop over to Epic and again no issue at all with any titles.

[crunchyfrog]

persona2074 eredeti hozzászólása:

yeah its def not your PC. im not having the issue on my new SSD, i run a consistent 28MBPS on both DL and write speeds for even my worst offenders, while on my old SSHD that i kinda think is now an HDD with a burnt out SS i get that drop out in DL and slow fall to sudden peaks on my write speed, it can grind all the way down to KBPS at times which is infuriating. like whatever its doing is bogging down my disc to the point of nearly crashing my PC. Id love to put another SSD in but im po' lol, some games gotta go on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ slow drive. hop over to Epic and again no issue at all with any titles.

Yeah it's sometimes a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to nail down because of the way it works here.

I've always run laptops for gaming on Steam (mostly because I can't sit at a desktop anymore).

For that reason I often use far from the highest spec tech.

But even so, I've used various laptops, usually with external USB drives as well as various internal drives and so on. And it can sometimes be an issue where one game can take a while to download or even pre cache where another won't.

But it's not a new thing as that has been the case for as amny years almost as I've been here (about 12).

When you're delaing with I/O, RAM, CPU, hard drive and all the other bits, finding out which are respnnsible, let alone if it's faulty stuff can be a right pain.

[thegeodemon]

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

persona2074 eredeti hozzászólása:

yeah its def not your PC. im not having the issue on my new SSD, i run a consistent 28MBPS on both DL and write speeds for even my worst offenders, while on my old SSHD that i kinda think is now an HDD with a burnt out SS i get that drop out in DL and slow fall to sudden peaks on my write speed, it can grind all the way down to KBPS at times which is infuriating. like whatever its doing is bogging down my disc to the point of nearly crashing my PC. Id love to put another SSD in but im po' lol, some games gotta go on the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ slow drive. hop over to Epic and again no issue at all with any titles.

Yeah it's sometimes a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to nail down because of the way it works here.

I've always run laptops for gaming on Steam (mostly because I can't sit at a desktop anymore).

For that reason I often use far from the highest spec tech.

But even so, I've used various laptops, usually with external USB drives as well as various internal drives and so on. And it can sometimes be an issue where one game can take a while to download or even pre cache where another won't.

But it's not a new thing as that has been the case for as amny years almost as I've been here (about 12).

When you're delaing with I/O, RAM, CPU, hard drive and all the other bits, finding out which are respnnsible, let alone if it's faulty stuff can be a right pain.

Hardware effects speeds, fo sho.

Before, when things went quick- I had a regular SSd, so what, like 560 write speed?

Now i have a 980 pro, so 3k+ write speeds and I'm experiencing mega wait times.
It was like a brick in the face difference, I scoured the world for why this was happening- sorta hoped it was on my end and my pc, cuz at least I could fix that.

I know you are having trouble getting this, and if your stuff is getting patched as quick as always thats awesome and I'd love to know why its the same for you and not for some of us unlucky dudes. However, Read my original post. I had a few 100mb patches- no biggy, 15 secs would allow me to play any game. Now its doing the entire game install file, and not on any other platform other than steam.

I think theres an issue here. I wish we could find the cause, and I'm not sure why you try to say this isn't happening for us when we are the ones sitting here watching it happen? If a geologist discovers a rock thats brown, do you say "No its grey, because all rocks are grey!!!!"
.. even though theres a guy sitting there, clearly, looking at a brown rock.

Can ya clarify for me why this is so important to you that you refuse to believe any testimony to these events, or what fuels yer passion to tell everyone they're wrong? You say burden of proof, well wheres yours? , you got vids or some crap, timing your patch times? no. Because no one records that stuff.. and that seems obvious to me.

I think its pretty clear why you would keep posting on a thread you have zero benefit to gain even if a solution is found.

[crunchyfrog]

thegeodemon eredeti hozzászólása:

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah it's sometimes a bit of a ♥♥♥♥♥ to nail down because of the way it works here.

I've always run laptops for gaming on Steam (mostly because I can't sit at a desktop anymore).

For that reason I often use far from the highest spec tech.

But even so, I've used various laptops, usually with external USB drives as well as various internal drives and so on. And it can sometimes be an issue where one game can take a while to download or even pre cache where another won't.

But it's not a new thing as that has been the case for as amny years almost as I've been here (about 12).

When you're delaing with I/O, RAM, CPU, hard drive and all the other bits, finding out which are respnnsible, let alone if it's faulty stuff can be a right pain.

Hardware effects speeds, fo sho.

Before, when things went quick- I had a regular SSd, so what, like 560 write speed?

Now i have a 980 pro, so 3k+ write speeds and I'm experiencing mega wait times.
It was like a brick in the face difference, I scoured the world for why this was happening- sorta hoped it was on my end and my pc, cuz at least I could fix that.

I know you are having trouble getting this, and if your stuff is getting patched as quick as always thats awesome and I'd love to know why its the same for you and not for some of us unlucky dudes. However, Read my original post. I had a few 100mb patches- no biggy, 15 secs would allow me to play any game. Now its doing the entire game install file, and not on any other platform other than steam.

I think theres an issue here. I wish we could find the cause, and I'm not sure why you try to say this isn't happening for us when we are the ones sitting here watching it happen? If a geologist discovers a rock thats brown, do you say "No its grey, because all rocks are grey!!!!"
.. even though theres a guy sitting there, clearly, looking at a brown rock.

Can ya clarify for me why this is so important to you that you refuse to believe any testimony to these events, or what fuels yer passion to tell everyone they're wrong? You say burden of proof, well wheres yours? , you got vids or some crap, timing your patch times? no. Because no one records that stuff.. and that seems obvious to me.

I think its pretty clear why you would keep posting on a thread you have zero benefit to gain even if a solution is found.

Erm no.

The reason why I keep posting is simple.

Myths spread on here.

Way back before the refund policy was introduced, there used to be this utterly stupid and misleading myth that people would put out there that you got ONE refund for the life of your account.

The basis of this was that they misunderstood that refunds were on a case by case basis. They mangled that into thinking it meant this meant you got ONE shot at a refund.

And it spread like wildfire.

So I went out of my way (as did others here) to try and tamp that down. Why? Because it not only doesn't help anyone, it actually hinders them. Because it adds unnecesary tickets to support and makes for disgruntled customers for no reason.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

in this instance, why I'm posting this is exactly the same. There IS an issue with this setup of downloading, but many WRONGLY assume that because one thing works one way and it works differently another they draw incorrect conclusions.

One is that "there must have been a change their end" and another is of course "it CAN'T be my end".

All of this is obviously flawed because that's not logical. You can only make a valid claim there's a change when you have evidence. The same goes for there being nothing wrong your end.

It's dead easy to make flawed assumptions - we all do it. And yet again, in spreading it out here, it helps nobody as it leads them down the wrong path.

On top of this we have years of evidence on here about how common issues like this works. It's not an exact science in this case, so all we can do is stick to the MOST LIKELY CAUSES.

And that's exactly why I comment - because from clear evidence what I've said ARE the most likely causes. Don't believe me? Go and google all the threads on Steam where this has been posted about and see how often my point has solved the problem.

The thing to remember as ever, is NOT to take it personally.

[thegeodemon]

[quote=crunchyfrog;3421061982944162640

The reason why I keep posting is simple.

Myths spread on here.

Way back before the refund policy was introduced, there used to be this utterly stupid and misleading myth that people would put out there that you got ONE refund for the life of your account.

The basis of this was that they misunderstood that refunds were on a case by case basis. They mangled that into thinking it meant this meant you got ONE shot at a refund.

And it spread like wildfire.

So I went out of my way (as did others here) to try and tamp that down. Why? Because it not only doesn't help anyone, it actually hinders them. Because it adds unnecesary tickets to support and makes for disgruntled customers for no reason.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

in this instance, why I'm posting this is exactly the same. There IS an issue with this setup of downloading, but many WRONGLY assume that because one thing works one way and it works differently another they draw incorrect conclusions.

One is that "there must have been a change their end" and another is of course "it CAN'T be my end".

All of this is obviously flawed because that's not logical. You can only make a valid claim there's a change when you have evidence. The same goes for there being nothing wrong your end.

It's dead easy to make flawed assumptions - we all do it. And yet again, in spreading it out here, it helps nobody as it leads them down the wrong path.

On top of this we have years of evidence on here about how common issues like this works. It's not an exact science in this case, so all we can do is stick to the MOST LIKELY CAUSES.

And that's exactly why I comment - because from clear evidence what I've said ARE the most likely causes. Don't believe me? Go and google all the threads on Steam where this has been posted about and see how often my point has solved the problem.

The thing to remember as ever, is NOT to take it personally. [/quote]

Well, in that other case about the refund, that could potentially harm someones chances at getting something they'd be entitled to- understood.

This isn't hurting anyone, and has a possibility to find a solution to a problem- regardless of which end its on.

I also get that sentiment as 99.9% of problems are a pebcak error. Maybe more like 101%.

Still, I've done extensive testing and cannot rule out out Steam being different.

My PC is not set to auto update, and no changes were made on my end.
All games, from all companies, started this behavior simultaneously but ONLY on steam.
I've tested patching with the same game/patches on other platforms like origin, GoG, Epic, etc.
Many of my friends have the same exact problem I do, using different hardware and software.

I've tried numerous things, from reinstalling windows, steam, reformatting SSD, changing drivers and controllers, changing Drive orders, Changing install directories, changing cloud settings, firewalls, protection programs, DNS servers, and even installing a new SSD
(And a lot of these are stretches as they should in no way impact a file patch)

Worth noting I've tried this on 3 different rigs, using different versions of windows and different gen mobo's/ram/HDD/SSD. Using games on hard copy so I know its the same patches.


If I were a detective, the common denominators across the board would be- Steam.
And I do allow that could NOT be the issue, however slim that seems at the moment.

If you demand evidence the problem exists, then provide evidence that it doesn't?

And I'm not offended or anything, just when you call BS on everything I have to take time to read through your post and then more time to reply so you know I'm not just ignoring your points.

It'd be great if we could just, for the sake of argument, allow that Steam might have changed.
And if anyone interacts with it in a way that solves the issue- please share on here so the people plagued by this can get er fixed up.

[Iceira]

Validate game files and patch from game devs is diffrent both might use the check with something with something, but then you patch a current installed then they use a checksum and make the code on the fly ( mean its you cpu and I/O on the disk, laptop in balance mode will be slower same as desktop pc diffrence is in the throttle cpu cycle, )

this dont ruleout not enough free space and know the way pc looking for free space "search time"
this is know as have way more free space then need because its impack on disk performance

could be rude and say games like fallout4 GotY Edition that 100gb ( 93gb)
if such game use full DL and then patch you need 300gb + 200gb the 10% kept free on a 2TB

and that how you could end up with need 500gb free for that game

point is soon such new games will be bigger and heavy on depend on build and soon 1TB free if OS system was also there. and you can get in huge trouble if steam and games need update later on such small 1TB disk.

and yes some user have notice the fake DL and then it start to validate rest of the files like its the update you got and then they download rest of the files. as validate game content.

same as if you move game to other steam lib. ( storage management double check )

thats a move with a then validate files again after the move ? see DL section for that.

im not sure i think this steam post threads has mixup issue with depend on what we talk about.

( its like steam hunt for bugs, sense so many user complain in every post with things dont work ) they seem to forget the upadte the pc and its thirdpart Driver in top of this
go check MS own VC+++ version, game devs use 2 version older then MS nnd steam use what game devs use then they create the game. )

then you learn how VC+++ files can optimize system performance and game devs is part of the problem here, and its still user own problem for not update inb what MS see as update files.

still dont ruleout alot of other issue like
run cmd as admin
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth
and the sfc /scannow.

so you know system seem to be fine.

there is alot of off topic here , ( have a update pc is not MS job its your Brand name or Brand name Motherboard support page problem if you have not already done so )

if this is to hard for you get somone that can help you to do it.

whats the point in have newest GPU Driver then rest of the system dont get fixed.

ps.
dont expect game devs or steam to catch up in newest files from MS own support page in VC+++

problem is they have done this always, but things change and go so fast today that they use outdate files.

[thegeodemon]

Iceira W10 eredeti hozzászólása:

Validate game files and patch from game devs is diffrent both might use the check with something with something, but then you patch a current installed then they use a checksum and make the code on the fly ( mean its you cpu and I/O on the disk, laptop in balance mode will be slower same as desktop pc diffrence is in the throttle cpu cycle, )

this dont ruleout not enough free space and know the way pc looking for free space "search time"
this is know as have way more free space then need because its impack on disk performance

could be rude and say games like fallout4 GotY Edition that 100gb ( 93gb)
if such game use full DL and then patch you need 300gb + 200gb the 10% kept free on a 2TB

and that how you could end up with need 500gb free for that game

point is soon such new games will be bigger and heavy on depend on build and soon 1TB free if OS system was also there. and you can get in huge trouble if steam and games need update later on such small 1TB disk.

and yes some user have notice the fake DL and then it start to validate rest of the files like its the update you got and then they download rest of the files. as validate game content.

same as if you move game to other steam lib. ( storage management double check )

thats a move with a then validate files again after the move ? see DL section for that.

im not sure i think this steam post threads has mixup issue with depend on what we talk about.

( its like steam hunt for bugs, sense so many user complain in every post with things dont work ) they seem to forget the upadte the pc and its thirdpart Driver in top of this
go check MS own VC+++ version, game devs use 2 version older then MS nnd steam use what game devs use then they create the game. )

then you learn how VC+++ files can optimize system performance and game devs is part of the problem here, and its still user own problem for not update inb what MS see as update files.

still dont ruleout alot of other issue like
run cmd as admin
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth
and the sfc /scannow.

so you know system seem to be fine.

there is alot of off topic here , ( have a update pc is not MS job its your Brand name or Brand name Motherboard support page problem if you have not already done so )

if this is to hard for you get somone that can help you to do it.

whats the point in have newest GPU Driver then rest of the system dont get fixed.

ps.
dont expect game devs or steam to catch up in newest files from MS own support page in VC+++

problem is they have done this always, but things change and go so fast today that they use outdate files.

Very informative, thank you.
You make a good point about the different versions. I know most things move to quick for the retailers to have up to date drivers on their suites, thats always been since the 90's :)

My big issue is Ican't figure out why steam checks the entire game file, and the other launchers only inject to the files of the folder that is being changed.
(Steam actually uses my write speed for the entire game folder, for even the smallest patch- Epic, Origins, GoG, and Blizzard never do that, ever. )

Some guys think I'm dumb because of a visual prompt steam changed to include disk space used as well as download required.

[Iceira]

As i said, its look like they hunt for bugs, then you change or game get a trigger update by anything. ( ohh lets check every file for checksum error, because something could be wrong here ) clearly not a user that dont update Bios and all other Drivers and OC and scramble data for not use Full Performance ) as CF point out rumers start that way. ( steam is not support in hardware they are a store merchant , game devs has tunnel vision they focus on product only. give a ratts butt in other pc issue.

sure this post sounds hard on them but then you look at it, im not, ppl need to take better care of own pc and contact right support department in hardware.

and this is what , check erver data with validate in one way or other , as i said its look like search for something. with corrupted data. dont forget some user do have validate game intergrity of files error. why do they have scramble files, things is not that simple then even that work for some.

but as you said it why do we all have to suffer with the new ways depend on ( fresh install that trigger a validate ) they should not be compare with a move and check
or manual check you do.

and the fake dl dont forget that part its like get the update content only , then rest is fetch though the validater ( a neat new way that dont explan user why that happend )

in old time in steam i did see a we have change the file content or compact it better something like that, so long ago i cant even remember it correctly, that mean old checksum wont fit anymore, even that is possible here and why it happend.

you can scrated your head here, we have no clue and it could be one of them things, explan this to user will just make it worse, im sure this just trigger even more user with annoying check that , should run in idle mode then user dont use that app or pc.

dont forget i use my pc at steam update at midnight then i dont use the pc. i dont need to see paint dry ( most get that threase today ) or old to look at defragmentation as we use to in the old days, why bother, waste of time.


i dont work for steam, but its like they search for bugs. ( checksum error in data, that mean refetch data, if someone did not get that part. )

[Iceira]

Another new way to explan same then you DL some games its not DL its a piece of code or app like client that then fetch rest of the data. most have learn this over the years in diffrent client, same BS can happend here in steam dl small piece of code and then fetch rest.

so its nothing new, but maybe not notice in steam own DL Client, because we was use to the old ways they did.


make steam supprt ticket, dont get me wrong here, what if they made a mistake with force refetch data then checksum fits, or use the overwrite as confirm and delete, dont get me wrong here, seen alot of wrong checksum , and overwrite and force update was the right way.
again its steam that hold the cards here on the hands, not us.

and we cant help you then its not every game that do this.

[MonkehMaster]

Pu Tang eredeti hozzászólása:

Anyway, I know for a fact a 400Mb patch should not need 40 minutes before I can play. Never experienced these patch times in the past.

true, in the past patches/updates were never like this.

[Iceira]

it ends here ask steam support the right way make ticket, why do every game need validation after install and move, what are you doing and it look like a force check, but what the point in manual validate game intergrity of files.

thats my point its like steam or checksum trigger something or they try eliminate currupted files, that most user could be part of own problem like OC pc that scramble files.
again over in, this just hurt all of us, and actual user own problem for do a manual check themself then game act weird.

thats clear DL cahce then check intergrity on files,

and stop be after CF he has a point rumors start this way , and only steam know why they do this.

and it dont help they cant figure doing this in steam idle time then we are online and not use pc.
as i said, there are many ways to do such check files and system.

prety sure any private company wont like bring system dowe in prime time then user need it.
pretty sure steam have forgot such ways in the process here. ( just because i say this dont mean steam will change, only you guys with this problem can explan this to them. )

fact
you cant make a ticket to steam if you dont have the problem. been there done that, you cant help steam support then you dont have a problem.


fact
report every game to game devs and steam support that do this. ( every update dont need check my files. ) let steam explan better then its need or not. doing the process if its needed because game devs change or steam change its compact files.