I WANT AN EXPLANTION! It seems like Steam will punish me for using the refund option. I WANT AN APPOLOGY FOR THIS. Their argument is "too often", but when I've been buying new games each week for a year. I feel really insulted by this. SO CAN ANY MODERAT

[Elvenkind]

Steam say that they will - if THEY (in automatic messages) BELIEVE I am abusing the refund policy, and just ask for refund for "fun", or as a method to try out games, as the accusing began with. ( "The refund option is NOT TO TEST GAMES" ).

And it seems like it don't matter that I have been a VERY GOOD COSTUMER. But if Steam accuse me of things that are not true. That I install huge games just to test them.

The latest example of me refunding a game was that I got about 1 US$ back, that I used for cards and badges and similar. And in all the cases of refund, I have spent a long time to try to find something I want to keep, so they money still go back to Steam.

But if I get some error-infested game, and they have (on auto) convinced themselves that I'm a kind of pirate or thief and liar.

And I just have to put a thick, red line under this, that this is totally unacceptable from Steam, toward a costumer that have bought a game every 3 days, not included those I've bought for my son and a friend. So it seems like these accusations had never come, if I had been a bad costumer, only buying a couple of games from Steam. But being extremely active. Buying a 20-50£ Wallet-card as a habit every weekend, to have something to look forward to. But if I'll get auto-"banned" from refunds, because the mathematics tell Steam that I have had really lots of refunds, specially before I knew this was something without any limit as long as you had barely tried it and just bought it.

Then this is not just a slap in the face, but a clear message that this is a company that is not as trustworthy as I am. That advertise with a refund policy, but in reality they are starting to count from the first time you ask for it. And it seems when you reach a certain number of refunds, then they don't feel at all on guard of writing things that are not just hurtful, with how I have ONLY used Steam for gaming, but actually really rude, to such a point that I will start to look for games for sale other places. I got a disability income, and had saved money for two used gaming pc's for me and my son, and have only - FOR ALL GAMES - been buying via Steam?

I thought Valve was 100% Quality, but this make me think of Electronic Arts with their SecuROM and other anti-piracy crusades toward those that actually bought their games. For example Spore was in the beginning only allowed to install 4 times, and not from a cd-burner, but just a normal cd-rom. I don't remember, but if you had Sony or did not have sony cd/DVD-burner, then the game would accuse you of piracy. :((((((((((((


I haven't been using any calculator, but I guess I've spent AT LEAST 10K US$ on Steam Games. That I have done this I have never gotten an email about, with positive words and thanks. :\

Steam seem to take their monopoly as freedom from common manners. And IF they remove my refund option, I will make all this clear in a video on Google. Telling what I have done as a good costumer, and what Steam have done, taking me for granted. Believe me I know animations enough to explain this process, where honest buyers will be blamed for RUDE ACCUSATIONS, and I'm guessing this is automatic. I will spend weeks on YouTube commenting how little thought throught this is. And I have to warn other, honest Gamers, if this is Normal Steam feedback.

I really respected Valve. And hope someone answer my despair here. I know for sure if I do become a victim of Steam desciding that I'm not a costumer worth showing patience, when I want a library filled with GREAT games, and not bad games, not mediocre games, nor games that I will never play, but only own, as is true with many games already, because I didn't think of refund early enough.



TO MAKE THIS SHORT: I REALLY DO EXPECT A "SORRY", THAT THIS HAVE BEEN "MISUNDERSTANDINGS", THAT YOU WANT GOOD COSTUMERS, as with the 70-80 (90?) games I've bought to myself and others in 2019.

Can you give some nice, polite words about this or do Steam really read anything at all on their platform? Have I only tried communicated with bots? ;-(

[Kargor]

Just do it like you did it before Steam added the refund option: look at the games BEFORE you buy them.

For me, nothing has changed when Steam added the refunds, so I'm still at 0 games refunded.

Also, stop pretending you're the sole savior of Gamindustri, or at least the White Knight of Steam. Your profile counts 74 games...
But even if you had 7400 games, Steam applies the same policies to everyone.

[Silicon Vampire]

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

[Elvenkind]

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

I refunded lots of games, if I had reason to believe I wouldn't play it much, by how the game looked, I asked for refund, and then I took care of the games that was reallly inspiring.

After that (I'm on disability and suffer greatly with my memory, specially dates and phones and numbers in general) I've asked for two refunds and been given two, first one that was really cheap, but that I didn't enjoy, and then Mordhau, but since I also had bought Chivalry, and since these two are almost identical and since I thought Modhau was a more complex, strategic game, I asked to get it refunded and accepted this on second try, but now the warning is no longer "Refund is not a method to try games", but that "If Steam think I misuse this thing with refunds, then they won't give me more refunds.

My argument is that when I got 3-4 times more games in a matter of a year, then I can keep installled, is that my refunds must seem extreme in number, but as mentioned I really do enjoy buying a wallet card, look for hours, but still I might be unlucky. The pictures and trailer might be hyped up, so that the games are nothing like this when I try to install and play them.

Anyway: I never got told about "LIMITS" before it was too late for this. Is this my fault, or have Steam put this info in a huge, legal notice that it's really rare for people to read through?

Originally posted by Kargor:

Just do it like you did it before Steam added the refund option: look at the games BEFORE you buy them.

For me, nothing has changed when Steam added the refunds, so I'm still at 0 games refunded.

Also, stop pretending you're the sole savior of Gamindustri, or at least the White Knight of Steam. Your profile counts 74 games...
But even if you had 7400 games, Steam applies the same policies to everyone.

74 games plus a large list on my sons PC and presents to a friend as well. So I'm pretty close to 1 game everey third day. I only had Doom BFG before I started last year to build up. If you got 0 games refunded then you can't have been in time for 2 weeks and 2 hours or less gametime.

No white knight, but I don't deserve to be accused of something not true, and unreasonable. The sarcasm really suit you NOT very well.


I'm serious about being hurt, confused, insulted, etc. about how this is being communicated.


I hope I get my point across, that this is about feedback as a costumer. If Steam were a store for games, and told me lots of rude things, I wouldn't like it much. This is probably uncomprehendible to you, hopefully not for moderator? I just want some clear answers. Are there a discount policy or not? Is it based on times used or motivation behind using it?

IMO a refund should be followed by an information that it's not a policy one can count on, if that is the truth.

[J4MESOX4D]

Your previous spend, badges and other crap has no bearing - everyone is treated the same. You will receive automated messages ranging from mild to severe warnings and then you can be blocked form the feature without notice if you further persist.

For every game you refund, developers miss out on 70% of the money so it's not like Valve are reaping 100% of the income and your loyalty is rewarded entirely. They have to protect developers.

[Brujeira]

It’s been mentioned in the main article on Steam refunds for four and a half years. It’s been discussed by the gaming press, the technology press and countless Steam and Reddit threads. The policy is as clear as it can be as setting hard and fast rules for these situations just doesn’t work.

[Elvenkind]

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

Are you hired by Steam?

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

[Elvenkind]

Thanks for the last answers, but I prefer to hear what seem confusing, and to be clarified by a figure of authority whom word can be trusted. Thank you.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

Are you hired by Steam?

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

You want an explanation; you are nothing special, everyone is treated the same. Stop screwing developers out of money. You own 74 cheap games and have crafted a few badges and that's it.

[Ogami]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

Are you hired by Steam?

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

Its simple. You refunded too many games in a short amount of time, kept too few games in comparison and so you got a warning.
The system is the same for everyone. I spend many hundred times more then you on Steam for games and i also got the warning a time or two.
Its nothing personal, its not meant to "insult" you, its a automatic system which is there to prevent refund abuse. Thats it.
It the same for every user on Steam, from the fresh account with 3 games to the 16 year veteran with 10k games.
EVERYONE is treated the same because this is the ONLY way this system can work and be fair.

So, if you dont want to get warnings for refunding too much, STOP REFUNDING SO MUCH.
Do your research about what you buy BEFORE you buy it, that is not a unreasonable requirement.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Originally posted by Silicon Vampire:

Just how many refunds have you initiated in the last few months? You don't get a notice like that out of the blue...

and the refund system isn't a demo system. I've refunded exactly one game in the last 15 years and that was well before there was even a refund system in place...

Are you hired by Steam?

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

Why on earth did you even think that you could lose anything except the refund privilege?

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Are you hired by Steam?

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

Silicon Vampire and I (as well as all Global Moderators) are volunteers, not employees of Steam. Valve employees rarely post in the forums.

At most, you may lose the ability to refund games and that is it. Nothing else will be effected.

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

I refunded lots of games, if I had reason to believe I wouldn't play it much, by how the game looked, I asked for refund, and then I took care of the games that was reallly inspiring.

I suggest doing more research on a game before purchasing. You can watch Lets Play videos, Twitch Streams or even streams on Steam, in addition to reviews and the game's forums. There are many ways to check before deciding if you want to buy a game.

With every refund Valve loses a bit of money. Aside from the amount refunded, there are bank and transfer/processing fees that a company get charged and may not get back after issuing a refund.

[Mr. Joseph]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Listen, you are very special and the people at Valve know that. It's just sometimes they get busy. You know how life is sometimes. We go into cruise control and don't pay much attention to those we love most.

Why don't you close your eyes and take a little nap. Gaben might come tuck you in and give you a little kiss goodnight. Everything will okay.

[AmsterdamHeavy]

You refunded a $1 game?

You cost them more than that in fees when you did it, duh.

Most people wouldnt refund a $1 game. Buying a $1 game is like 20% of the cost of a cup of TEA from the grimy "gourmet" places, as a comparison.

If youve been refunding other stuff, and then cost them more than the sale of that $1 game - yeah Id send you the warning too. Like, really? A dollar? Sometime you should probably live with your own bad decisions; it can be cheaper in the long run.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Elvenkind:

Don't it mean anything when I as a user of Steam write that I feel hurt, that these messages have felt insulting, or that I say I've been loyal only to Steam as a sales platform, and would be happy for some clarity in the issue, some understanding, perhaps some explaination that would make me feel safe that I won't be punished when I've never had in my mind to break any rules? Perhaps most of all some friendly words, a smiley or whatever, would mean a lot, since I got scared of loosing all I had collected? But that can't happen?

Have a nice weekend.

Nope, none of that matters. You have 74 games I have 947 and i'm held to the same standards as you would be. Everyone is treated equally.

Refunds are not a right, they are a privilege, and valve LOSES money when you do refunds. ALL stores reserve the right to block refunds if they feel people are abusing it and doing too many regardless of the reason.

You need to do more diligence and research when you purchase games.

[Elvenkind]

Originally posted by Ogami:

Its nothing personal, its not meant to "insult" you, its a automatic system which is there to prevent refund abuse. Thats it.
It the same for every user on Steam, from the fresh account with 3 games to the 16 year veteran with 10k games.
EVERYONE is treated the same because this is the ONLY way this system can work and be fair. (1

So, if you dont want to get warnings for refunding too much, STOP REFUNDING SO MUCH. 2)
Do your research about what you buy BEFORE you buy it, that is not a unreasonable requirement. 3)

Of course, I know, but in my case I thought I had a kind of gurantee in these refunds, to have the right to not spend hundreds on some useless junk.

And I DID STOP refunding so much, that's why I'm so surprised that this case against me seem to have escalated, and in both cases I took it deeply personal, with the first letting me know that the refund system is not something one use to "test games".

And then the second, when I had carefully avoided to ask for refund since October I think, then I got a second message where it seemed like refund it was thought of as a delibaberate attemtp to... get almost 2 free hours. And as I mentioned this was a game that only cost 1$ or so - it just didn't seem to fit the genre of survival, but was perhaps a more point & click adventure.

And this time I didn't get told as if in a hypothetical situation with the "testing of games", but it was clealy written that if this continued, again as it was a highly questionable, morally wrong act, then Steam alone will refuse all future attempts for refunds. And ALL mean also for example games that one are unable to start, no matter if the piggy bank just got broken and someone bought Microsoft Airplane Simulator X with all the DLC's, something that would cost more then 100,000 Norwegian Kroner, that's like 15,000 USD or so, not sure, but a LOT.

So in this message - since it's automatic answers, it must be a certain amount of maximum tolerated refunds at Steam. Something that clearly break the consumer laws where I live. The burden of proof would also be on Steam, to make it a matter beyond all reasonable doubts, that I (or others, that like to get something worth they money being payed) in fact had used the refund option so much that I had a so crystal-clear wish to misuse Steam, that it's not even needed to discuss this with the person that now had - like me - games for thousands trapped in a gaming software that I could not safely use anymore. And Complaing to a moderator clearly don't help, because in relation to Steam, a person don't own the games he/she have payed for. There's no cd-keys to install the game outside of this software, no matter how much money you have payed for it. If someone start a political conversation on my steam, even if it's hacked, and seriously harass other's answering, then a ban will be the end of those games. Similar to owning a big pile of dvd-covers, only you don't own anything else then the plastic, while Steam can make a big bonfire of them all - also here being judge, jury and executioner, where people using Steam are "unlawful enemy combatants", if trouble come these are transported to a black site without normal, civilized rules.

And to try to finish this: Even if I read article after article with praise upon various games, it's entirely possible that I don't like them at all. I'm quite limited in what I like: I Enjoy managment games, specially survival-crafting-open world, base building, sandbox, where the storyline either is invisible or end up so far back in priorities that I never bother really check it. And I like City Builders. I don't like FPS games, except Quake 1 and the level editor I had so much fun with, to bring friends into, but I've discovered that I absolutely love Medieval pvp games with a ok amount of gore, to slice down person after person, and despite not having played FPS games hardly at all, this - I don't know how to place it (Chivalry - Medieval Combat), it's just like counter strike, only turned 1000 years back in time, and it's much more fun chopping off arms and head of enemies then shoot them with a bullet and hardly see what they died from. So my second refund request was for Mordau - an almost totally identical game that I had misunderstood as more of a MMO game on a PVP server, rather then "forced to fight at once". Hope I don't lose my refunds for all eternity because I didn't want two almost identical games, only that Chivalry is better IMO And even if most people writing pc-magazines loves fortnite, and give it top scores, I don't see the point. You don't get a 1/10000's the rush you get from slicing down enemy after enemy. So it's the same with the Far Cry games, or any other very popular action game where you are heavily armed and phyisical shape to jump to tenth floor from the basement, while killing everyone in the building with bullet-time. So I usually try to read the best previews, and if it's just positive from anyone visiting, it's either a crappy game with a majory hype, or it ALMOST EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Totally what I want I never find. But there's been many that go in other directions in the managment of the game. For example Factorio. Managing mass-production. Prisoner Architect, managing Criminals.
So I don't get much by studies on google ( I have REALLY tried), but to see why so many like a game.

If it's allowed for me to Criticize Steam on Steam, and even if might be legal to drive over those that have made Steam into SOMETHING, making the flat as a pancake, as long as there's some small print somewhere that syrup should be served, then this is US law. I'm quite no moderator or even the owner could take my games if I called the specially powerful consumer agency here. Going to supreme court I'm guessing I would be awarded compensation for loss of rights, and Steam could not have argumented to be a "person", having rights, so economic compensation. All the games in the software I've payed for, neatly packed in original package, and no limit to how often or why I asked for refund. A simple arguments about DEMOS would quickly have settled this. At least here in the Northern Way.


Sorry for my long posts, with 186+ words in English per minute.


I just had to get out some gall and toxic things. I'm seriously thankful for taking me seriously. Because, believe it or not: It was a GREAT, HORRIBLE SHOCK for me to understand that I could loose my right to confront figures of authority or rules they claim to be universal, part of their authority, that make no sense.

I'm tempted to make a documentary series of what Steam really is, after stripping away the rights any normal person would take for granted.

Who Own Steam? Or Valve?


Anyway, again: Have a great weekend. With kind regards, Elvenkind. Hope you get a good weekend. :) I'm hungry as a velociraptor and might chew off a corner of the fridge soon.