What are the consequences to filing a charge back against Valve

[FSD]

I am no longer considering a charge back against Valve.

Anyone continuing said discussion will be treated as harassment.

[Nx Machina]

Publicado originalmente por fauxtronic:

Publicado originalmente por Kusa:

Valve's refund policy complies with EU law, if it complies it must be approved or we would be seeing multiple court cases, would we not?

Approval and compliance are different things, as explained in my previous message.

And as I stated Valve's compliance with the EU regarding refunds is approval of said refund policy otherwise again we would be seeing multiple court cases.

Enjoy your day,

[FSD]

Kusa - You are the one not listening. I am still working through the "Requesting a refund process." Only this time, not with a robot but an actual person whom will eventually get back to me with some form of response. As I have stated. If you had bothered to read before your first post you would of known that also.

The charge back is not performed through Valve. It is performed as a service through my CC Company. It does not mean anything at all legally that Valve has a policy that states "2 hours" is the minimum. It does not make it law. It is entirely at Valve's personal choice to stick to it or to waive it and allow the refund. But if they refuse to refund. I have the legal right to dispute that choice. The easiest way is to begin the charge back. But as I have already MANY times said I am not going to issue a charge back.

Now Kusa. Stop. I will not discuss this with you further for your lack of being able to read.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

Kusa - You are the one not listening. I am still working through the "Requesting a refund process." Only this time, not with a robot but an actual person whom will eventually get back to me with some form of response. As I have stated. If you had bothered to read before your first post you would of known that also.

The charge back is not performed through Valve. It is performed as a service through my CC Company. It does not mean anything at all legally that Valve has a policy that states "2 hours" is the minimum. It does not make it law. It is entirely at Valve's personal choice to stick to it or to waive it and allow the refund. But if they refuse to refund. I have the legal right to dispute that choice. The easiest way is to begin the charge back. But as I have already MANY times said I am not going to issue a charge back.

Now Kusa. Stop. I will not discuss this with you further for your lack of being able to read.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

To put it bluntly, I am pissed off. With the developers. With Steam and Valve. Now, with you.

My actions are my own. I'll give you the credit of not having seen the problems I have had with the game. The reasons for why I asked for a refund. Not expected one. But it isn't financial fraud to file a charge back. I have the right to disagree with the charge. Just as Valve would then have the right to hold my action accountable. But they can't prevent the charge back. Not all CC companies require you to have a theft for the reason for a charge back.

I wish I had spent more time deciding whether or not I would enjoy the game. I bought the game as a gift for a friend and for myself to play with said friend along with another friend. They, were enjoying the game. I also don't make flippant choices. Games are supposed to be fun. Not pieces of garbage that piss you off so much that they just induce stress and then force you to interact with people like you that are only capable of being toxic.

Hence, why I came here first to know the answer. Not just react like I wanted to.

Leave me the ♥♥♥♥ alone Satoru.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it invalid.

You bought a game and you don't like it and were asking to do a charge back which hits valve with a fee, and allows you to keep the game. That's theft as you'd own the product and have not paid for it.

Even if it wasn't valve would ban your entire account and shut it down

[The HopelessGamer™]

If you file a charge back, Steam will restrict your account unless the money is returned. Simple as that. You will no longer be able to purchase games in future on that account if Steam restricts it due to the charge back not being repaid.

Steam will remove anything you bought with those charged back funds. So if you bought a game and then did a charge back, steam will remove it and apply the restrictions i said above if the money is not repaid.

[Zaskar]

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

The charge back is not performed through Valve. It is performed as a service through my CC Company. It does not mean anything at all legally that Valve has a policy that states "2 hours" is the minimum. It does not make it law. It is entirely at Valve's personal choice to stick to it or to waive it and allow the refund. But if they refuse to refund. I have the legal right to dispute that choice. The easiest way is to begin the charge back. But as I have already MANY times said I am not going to issue a charge back.

Valve already offers more than what the EU law requires. Since you agreed with their terms(Which are by no mean abusive, since as stated, they offers more than the law itself), you would have no legal ground to justify a chargeback if Valve would goes against you for that.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

Hating a company for not being sympathetic is well with in my rights. Choosing never to spend another cent on them because they could not be compassionate like how you are choosing to treat me. That is my right.

That's for sure. It doesn't make it right tho.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

Your reference of going into Walmart though, is not actually correct in entirety.

Not entirely. But you still forcefully get back the money you owe them. They completely fulfilled their part of the purchase agreement.

[The Giving One]

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

To be fraudulent it has to be 100% false. For the charge back I only have to state that I am contesting the charge and in disagreement with Valve. The product requires steam to play. The product was uninstalled. It is up to Valve to relinquish the license. For all tense and purposes this is what Charge back is for. Not just to undo a purchase made with a stolen card. But to deal with transactions that were made in error when the other party is uncooperative.

Them following the policy that you agreed to upon checkout when you purchased this game, does not equal them being "uncooperative". You actually agreed to the terms of the refund policy on the checkout page, when you bought the game. It's linked there for you to read, and before you can even complete your purchase, you have to check the box that says "I agree".

Sorry, but if you get what you paid for, then it is wrong to do a chargeback. A chargeback is when you don't get what you paid for, so you can do the chargeback and get your money because you did not get the product or the service that you contractually were obligated to get.

But that's not the case here. You got what you paid for, and agreed to the terms of that transaction, freely. Totally different situation. A chargeback in this case is fraudulent. Don't take my word for it, use the forum search and you can see for yourself.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

But, I have games on my account I do play. I will play etc etc. That loss, would be greater than the sum returned. That is why I can not. That is why I won't be making a charge back. But that still leaves me feeling like my money was stolen.

Seriously ? You freely added this game to your shopping cart, clicked on "purchase for my account", freely, then had to check the box to agree to the terms of that purchase, but that somehow equals you feeling like someone has stolen from you ? That's nonsense. No one forced you to make that purchase and agree to the terms of that purchase.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

If Valve does not want to actually support their customers as they pretend to and allow no room for any reason past the 2 hour mark.

They do make exceptions to the policy. We see that happen here all the time. They just did not make an exception in your case at this point.

Also, not sure why this needs to be explained all the time, but what people can "explain" as to why they went over the limits to the refund policy opens the policy up for huge amounts of abuse. That leaves the door open for users to just make up any story they want, buy games and play them over the limits, then say they want special treatment for whatever reason and often lie to try to get free games. Think about if this was your business and how that would work. It wouldn't work, and you would be out of business before long.

You are literally blaming anything else you can due to the fact you cannot take responsibility for going over the 2 hour playtime limit. That was your responsibility to make sure of. You failed to stop at 2 hours of play so that's on you. Stop blaming Valve for not working with it's customers because they are holding you to the policy that you agreed to.

[FSD]

TheGivingOne -

I am still waiting to hear back from them. I have the legal right to dispute any purchase. Especially when the product I thought I was buying was not what was delivered.

I have not once stated I didn't go over the 2 hour mark. But it was the robot review not the speak with a human being option. Like I said. I am still waiting for a reply. I expect it will take a few days.

I won't stop blaming Valve for not working with their customers if I don't actually ever hear a written word from a human being. Communication is a part of Human Society.

I have every right to the opinion and feeling that my money was stolen. That is why it is my opinion. So, yes. Seriously. That is the logical outcome when what you thought you were buying isn't what it actually was. This is like buying an orange phone case and getting a yellow phone case. Simply because the color on the screen was not an accurate representation of the actual color in person. If you loved the orange and hated the yellow. So it is very clear to you in the end that it wasn't what you wanted. If it cost you $1.38 to buy it delivered but will cost you 1 dollar to return it. There isn't much reason to return it for 38 cents. But that still won't alleviate your opinion that you were not sold what you thought you were buying. In the end, feeling like you lost 1.38 for something you didn't want. aka Feeling like your money was stolen.

Taking responsibility has nothing to do with disagreeing with the outcome and choosing to act upon that disagreement.

You need to do more research into the legalities of a charge back and how people have the right to refute and dispute terms and agreements. Because that last word there only holds merit while I agree to the terms. I have the right at any time, for any reason to disagree with those terms. Even after having signed it. Of which, both I and Valve either come to terms with out lawyers, with lawyers privately, or in court. One way or another. Which is 100% with in my legal rights. I don't have to start with a charge back. I could jump straight to court with Small claims. Which would then force an Executive of Valve to appear in court in my state where it was filed with no lawyer at all allowed. Because small claims does not allow a lawyer to be present. The flight alone will cost more.

You are stuck on this idea of me attempting to shift blame. I blame myself. But my hating Valve because of it. Has nothing to do with shifting blame or responsibility.

I am waiting to hear back from a human being. Not a robotic auto response.

You suggested that I find legal information with in the Steam forums for proof that something is fraudulent. That is like going to a sugar company to ask if it is healthy to consume sugar. It is in their interest to state that it is perfectly healthy to consume sugar. There is nothing unhealthy about consuming sugar. They are not required by law to inform you that it is only healthy in moderation. Or that you really should consult a Dr. Just as you should of stated instead to talk to a Lawyer and or CC company. All States are not equal in terms of laws. What I am allowed to do in my State may not be the same as you. If you are in a different Country than I am. Then you are even further in the wrong to argue what is legal for me versus you.

I know where I stand with my legal rights. I have known through out this entire thread. What I didn't know, is how Valve responds. Hence, the main reason I made this thread. I got that answer very quick. That was all I needed to decide that I would not be choosing to issue a charge back.

The following is actual legal information. Not some false opinion of what is or is not fraud as pertaining to a charge back. At no point does it state anything pertaining to a charge back. The closest it gets is "To buy goods or services with the intention of evading payment." The requirement here being the need to prove that I had the intent to evade payment when I bought the game. This refers to buying a bunch of stuff on a CC and then not paying the bill at all with said CC. The bill has already been paid. Not fraudulent at all.

That is the cold hard truth. If I issue a charge back. It is a civil disagreement between myself and Valve. The product sold to me, is not the product I thought I was buying. It does not matter that Valve has a policy. That policy does not remove me of my rights. I retain the right to issue a charge back. Valve retains the right to dispute the charge back and treat me their customer in response to that action.

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/credit-debit-card-fraud.html

Elements of Credit Card Fraud

Debit/credit card fraud can be committed in a variety of ways, such as when a person:

Fraudulently obtains, takes, signs, uses, sells, buys, or forges someone else's credit or debit card or card information;
Uses his or her own card with the knowledge that it is revoked or expired or that the account lacks enough money to pay for the items charged; or
Sells goods or services to someone else with knowledge that the credit or debit card being used was illegally obtained or is being used without authorization.

Types of Credit Card Fraud

Credit fraud is a broad term for the use of a credit card (or any comparable type of credit) to buy goods or services with the intention of evading payment. While it is simple to understand the physical theft of a credit or debit card from a wallet or purse, today it is much more common to just have information stolen and not the card itself. There are several forms of credit card fraud with new and ingenious methods being devised almost daily. The most common types of credit fraud include:

Opening new accounts with stolen identification
Taking over an existing account
Making purchases without the card being present
Using a counterfeit card
Using a fake card
Using a lost or stolen card

Publicado originalmente por The Giving One:

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

To be fraudulent it has to be 100% false. For the charge back I only have to state that I am contesting the charge and in disagreement with Valve. The product requires steam to play. The product was uninstalled. It is up to Valve to relinquish the license. For all tense and purposes this is what Charge back is for. Not just to undo a purchase made with a stolen card. But to deal with transactions that were made in error when the other party is uncooperative.

Them following the policy that you agreed to upon checkout when you purchased this game, does not equal them being "uncooperative". You actually agreed to the terms of the refund policy on the checkout page, when you bought the game. It's linked there for you to read, and before you can even complete your purchase, you have to check the box that says "I agree".

Sorry, but if you get what you paid for, then it is wrong to do a chargeback. A chargeback is when you don't get what you paid for, so you can do the chargeback and get your money because you did not get the product or the service that you contractually were obligated to get.

But that's not the case here. You got what you paid for, and agreed to the terms of that transaction, freely. Totally different situation. A chargeback in this case is fraudulent. Don't take my word for it, use the forum search and you can see for yourself.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

But, I have games on my account I do play. I will play etc etc. That loss, would be greater than the sum returned. That is why I can not. That is why I won't be making a charge back. But that still leaves me feeling like my money was stolen.

Seriously ? You freely added this game to your shopping cart, clicked on "purchase for my account", freely, then had to check the box to agree to the terms of that purchase, but that somehow equals you feeling like someone has stolen from you ? That's nonsense. No one forced you to make that purchase and agree to the terms of that purchase.

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

If Valve does not want to actually support their customers as they pretend to and allow no room for any reason past the 2 hour mark.

They do make exceptions to the policy. We see that happen here all the time. They just did not make an exception in your case at this point.

Also, not sure why this needs to be explained all the time, but what people can "explain" as to why they went over the limits to the refund policy opens the policy up for huge amounts of abuse. That leaves the door open for users to just make up any story they want, buy games and play them over the limits, then say they want special treatment for whatever reason and often lie to try to get free games. Think about if this was your business and how that would work. It wouldn't work, and you would be out of business before long.

You are literally blaming anything else you can due to the fact you cannot take responsibility for going over the 2 hour playtime limit. That was your responsibility to make sure of. You failed to stop at 2 hours of play so that's on you. Stop blaming Valve for not working with it's customers because they are holding you to the policy that you agreed to.

[The HopelessGamer™]

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

TheGivingOne -

I am still waiting to hear back from them. I have the legal right to dispute any purchase. Especially when the product I thought I was buying was not what was delivered.

I have not once stated I didn't go over the 2 hour mark. But it was the robot review not the speak with a human being option. Like I said. I am still waiting for a reply. I expect it will take a few days.

I won't stop blaming Valve for not working with their customers if I don't actually ever hear a written word from a human being. Communication is a part of Human Society.

Every message from support is from a human. Every ticket is read by a real person. They use templates most of the time. Templated messages are why it looks like its a bot. Though i promise you it isn't.

As i said above, if you charge back steam after being declined a refund, steam will put heavy restrictions on your account if you do not repay that charge back in a given period of time.

[FSD]

Thus far, there is no proof to support that an actual person read my refund request comments. Not even a simple "I'm sorry that you hate this game. But you are past the 2 hour policy."

In my own opinion. I do not believe there is someone actually reading them. Just because they have said someone reads them. It does not mean that someone is not a computer auto responding. A computer program would cost a lot less to operate around the clock compared to hiring a real person or persons to do the same. Otherwise, why would one process complete in just a couple hours while another to specifically speak with a person with inquiries takes days for the same questions? Why is it the response from one is a static response with zero human response but the other will actually have a human response instead of a template response for the same question? According to you, both should get the template response. Not just the one.

Publicado originalmente por The HopelessGamer™:

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

TheGivingOne -

I am still waiting to hear back from them. I have the legal right to dispute any purchase. Especially when the product I thought I was buying was not what was delivered.

I have not once stated I didn't go over the 2 hour mark. But it was the robot review not the speak with a human being option. Like I said. I am still waiting for a reply. I expect it will take a few days.

I won't stop blaming Valve for not working with their customers if I don't actually ever hear a written word from a human being. Communication is a part of Human Society.

Every message from support is from a human. They use templates most of the time. Though every ticket is read by a real person.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Let us know the result of the manual purchase support ticket variant.

[rawWwRrr]

Publicado originalmente por FSD:

Thus far, there is no proof to support that an actual person read my refund request comments. Not even a simple "I'm sorry that you hate this game. But you are past the 2 hour policy."

What you don't realize is that when you run a support staff who fields thousands, millions, of the same questions, it's more efficient to provide the staff with boilerplate responses. Your request is a small drop in the ocean of requests they get on a daily basis. Just within the last 24 hours, they received over 170,000 requests. They simply don't have time to personalize a message just for you to ensure you that it was touched by a human being. They looked at your request, saw that you were over the hourly limit, made a choice, grabbed the boilerplate response and went on to the next of thousands waiting for a response.