A very technical question about KVM's (Kernel Virtual Machines) and VAC

[Omega]

Asking here because VAC forums only has spam in it and few active users. I am not going to get the answer I am looking for there since it will be drowned in "I got VAC" posts in minutes. If a mod really doesn't want my post here please close the thread or move it to the Steam for Linux forums.


So I read a few posts on Level one techs and various Linux forums (I will have a post linked below) about people complaining that VAC is disconnecting them from VAC secured servers because they are running their games in KVMs (Kernel Virtual Machine).

Can anyone confirm or deny that this is indeed happening? And does the Steam/Valve game's terms of service say anything about the user not being allowed to do this?


I doubt I am going to get an answer on this but if you never shoot you will always miss (dutch proverb meaning the same as never ventured nothing gained).


A post complaining about KVMs and VAC. [forum.level1techs.com]

[Snapjak]

I could see it being viewed as a potential way to cheat the system somehow. No idea how, but really who knows what someone's intent is.

[Satoru]

VAC will kick you out if you're running in a paravirtualized KVM environment

This si because these were being used to bypass VAC processes

they're not going to change it for the 0.000001% of users who use KVM GPU passthrough

Your'e running GPU passthrough on KVM/Vmware. You're probably smart enough to figure out how to dual boot

Plus CSGO has a Linux version you know

[Omega]

It's a mere virtual machine, it's an opperating system running within an opperating system.

Using KVMs is the only way of having multiple OSs running with nearly native performance on the virtualized ones. If I want to use Linux but I also want to play my entire library I might setup a VM with a Vega 64 hooked up to it.

And saying that CSGO and TF2 also run on Linux isn't a valid argument unless all KVM users can get a free Vega 64 and/or 1080 (ti). I can only use a GPU in one of the two without me having to reboot the whole system to switch, me having to reboot into another OS defeats the whole point of this.

[Satoru]

Messaggio originale di Omega:

It's a mere virtual machine, it's an opperating system running within an opperating system.

Yes I know what KVM is.

Using KVMs is the only way of having multiple OSs running with nearly native performance on the virtualized ones. If I want to use Linux but I also want to play my entire library I might setup a VM with a Vega 64 hooked up to it.

Or you could just dual boot ya know.

And saying that CSGO and TF2 also run on Linux isn't a valid argument unless all KVM users can get a free Vega 64 and/or 1080 (ti). I can only use a GPU in one of the two without me having to reboot the whole system to switch, me having to reboot into another OS defeats the whole point of this.

This is fun because who are 'all these KVM users'. Because let me ktell you, there isn't

You can *gasp* run TF2 and CSGo natively on Linux. With your Vega64! *gasp* shocker!

Plus you have a KVM setup with a Vega64. But dont' ahve an SSD drive for your OS? Because dual booting between OS takes liek 10 seconds

[Zekiran]

Just because YOU use it that way does not mean that others will use it correctly and not instead for cheating. That's why.

[Omega]

So the 0.0000001% of hackers who are savvy enough to do this have to ruin it for the rest of us? And I don't see how a KVM can be used for cheating.

Valve has bigger issues then one or two cheaters using a KVM. There are thousands of cheaters in these games, worry about the lagbots and catbots first.

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

And saying that CSGO and TF2 also run on Linux isn't a valid argument unless all KVM users can get a free Vega 64 and/or 1080 (ti). I can only use a GPU in one of the two without me having to reboot the whole system to switch, me having to reboot into another OS defeats the whole point of this.

This is fun because who are 'all these KVM users'. Because let me ktell you, there isn't

You can *gasp* run TF2 and CSGo natively on Linux. With your Vega64! *gasp* shocker!

I can't if my Vega 64 is running in the Windows VM. I will have to reboot into another OS which doesn't have the passthrough set up.

[Satoru]

There are more cheaters running KVM for cheat avoidance and testing than there are legitimate users.

You can run TF2 and CSGO natively in Linux with your Vega. You don’t need to run it in Windows. Use Linux. You know that think you’re running KVM on

[Omega]

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Use Linux. You know that think you’re running KVM on

I don't wanna

btw I am currently running Windows, I will install Arch or Fedora later when I have a few days of free time. Solus was crap for GPU passthrough and virtualization in general. And it was a pain in the butt to set up Docker with webservers so I could do web developement.

[meheezen]

I think his point is that he has to reboot to enable/disable I/O passthrough.
Then again, if you need to run several operating systems from a single machine, get a dedicated machine just for that, and run your games natively on another machine.

You can do so much low lvl injection with kernel-based virtualization that it's quite understandable that anti-cheat mechanisms just blocks them out.

[Omega]

I can't wait for the DRMs to prevent games from running inside a VM in the future. I also can't wait for multiplayer games to randomly give me game bans (Which will look great on my profile) because I am running them in a VM.

Messaggio originale di meheezen:

Then again, if you need to run several operating systems from a single machine, get a dedicated machine just for that, and run your games natively on another machine.

If I could afford it I would.

[meheezen]

Messaggio originale di Omega:

If I could afford it I would.

Several of my friends who work with software development bought some cheap Intel i3 computers, installed Linux and set them up in their basements.

[Omega]

Messaggio originale di meheezen:

Messaggio originale di Omega:

If I could afford it I would.

Several of my friends who work with software development bought some cheap Intel i3 computers, installed Linux and set them up in their basements.

In the basement.. smart. Half a meter of concrete should keep it from tracking my movements with it's proprietary software driven Xray spying technology.

I am someone who will go all in or not at all in a case like this, I am not going to play on a Ryzen APU or a 1050 ti which would be a massive downgrade over my current system. And I am not going to buy a PC for a few online titles which I can live without.

[The Giving One]

They can be used to circumvent VAC, thus specifically not allowed by the SSA.

There was one thread I remember well..........

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/135510393198367927/

[Satoru]

Anti cheat programs will do whatever the please and have nothing to do with 'DRM'

[Omega]

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Anti cheat programs will do whatever the please and have nothing to do with 'DRM'

What I mean is next companies might become even more paranoid and fear people will use KVMs to circumvent the DRM. The anti-piracy stuff. But just wild fantasies of mine, don't take everything I say 100% serious.

But with the rise of multi core CPUs and stuff this could become the future, not for everyone but at least for a lot of people it could be. A single server PC which everyone in the household uses. We just need a few more years of CPU developement and some smart people to create some user friendly software.