Unlocking achievements with save games....

[TheColorUrple]

Concerning save game manipulation, such as downloading them from the internet or creating manual backup saves.... are these forms of cheating against Steam's user agreement? How about editing a game's files like the typical .ini ones? There are obviously many ways to cheat a PC game even if it's not straight up profile editing, so I was wondering if anyone has any documentation they could link to so I can read up on it.

I'm not interested in moral opinions on cheating, just Steam's policies.


EDIT: Since the first person to reply immediately gave me his moral opinion as expected, allow me to clarify very specifically for those of you who always have to have an opinion on the internet.

The game Ori and the Blind Forest has an achievement called Flying Fury. It is commonly glitched. It seems to affect a certain percentage of save files for unknown reasons. Deleting the game, deleting the save, reinstalling the game, verifying the cache....sometimes this technique works, sometimes it doesn't. Downloading a save that DOES work, however, fixes the problem. This is called "save game manipulation". It is not cheating. That having been said, it opens the doors for cheating and could be grouped in the same category.

That's why I'm asking. For a friend.

[Albcatmastercat]

"Friend". Ok, sure.
Cheating is bad and shouldn't be done in the first place.

There's VAC-Protected games. If you cheat on those, you are forever banned from said game's online modes.

Otherwise, no.

But please don't cheat achievements. They ARE called achievements for a reason.

[TheColorUrple]

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

"Friend". Ok, sure.
Cheating is bad and shouldn't be done in the first place.

There's VAC-Protected games. If you cheat on those, you are forever banned from said game's online modes.

Otherwise, no.

But please don't cheat achievements. They ARE called achievements for a reason.

I'm not interested in moral opinions on cheating, just Steam's policies.

Remember when I said that?

[Albcatmastercat]

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

"Friend". Ok, sure.
Cheating is bad and shouldn't be done in the first place.

There's VAC-Protected games. If you cheat on those, you are forever banned from said game's online modes.

Otherwise, no.

But please don't cheat achievements. They ARE called achievements for a reason.

I'm not interested in moral opinions on cheating, just Steam's policies.

Remember when I said that?

Yes, I do. And I answered that.
See that middle part?

Anyway, why is your friend ruining the sole point of achievements?

[TheColorUrple]

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

I'm not interested in moral opinions on cheating, just Steam's policies.

Remember when I said that?

Yes, I do. And I answered that.
See that middle part?

Anyway, why is your friend ruining the sole point of achievements?

There, I edited the main post because obviously it wasn't clear enough. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Albcatmastercat]

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Yes, I do. And I answered that.
See that middle part?

Anyway, why is your friend ruining the sole point of achievements?

There, I edited the main post because obviously it wasn't clear enough. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. :D:

Ah, yes. If you DID do what you needed to, then yes, save manipulation may be allowed (I still wouldn't do it because of being around too many cheaters on Terraria).
Tell your friend to keep legit regarding achievements (only using said methods if achievements glitch or something). After all, the whole point of achievements is to show you achieved something, don't you agree?

[TheColorUrple]

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

There, I edited the main post because obviously it wasn't clear enough. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Ah, yes. If you DID do what you needed to, then yes, save manipulation may be allowed (I still wouldn't do it because of being around too many cheaters on Terraria).
Tell your friend to keep legit regarding achievements (only using said methods if achievements glitch or something). After all, the whole point of achievements is to show you achieved something, don't you agree?

I am not interested in discussing how I feel about cheating, that's the whole point I'm trying to make. I *just* want to talk about Valve policy. And to that end, I can't imagine there's anything written that says "well it's okay to do as long as you're just fixing glitches."

So please, at the risk of sounding like a ♥♥♥♥, only post concrete facts backed by sources.

[Albcatmastercat]

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Ah, yes. If you DID do what you needed to, then yes, save manipulation may be allowed (I still wouldn't do it because of being around too many cheaters on Terraria).
Tell your friend to keep legit regarding achievements (only using said methods if achievements glitch or something). After all, the whole point of achievements is to show you achieved something, don't you agree?

I am not interested in discussing how I feel about cheating, that's the whole point I'm trying to make. I *just* want to talk about Valve policy. And to that end, I can't imagine there's anything written that says "well it's okay to do as long as you're just fixing glitches."

So please, at the risk of sounding like a ♥♥♥♥, only post concrete facts backed by sources.

Search around on VAC Discussions. The pinned threads there have info on VAC.
Also, section 4(?) on the Subscriber Agreement.

[TheColorUrple]

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

I am not interested in discussing how I feel about cheating, that's the whole point I'm trying to make. I *just* want to talk about Valve policy. And to that end, I can't imagine there's anything written that says "well it's okay to do as long as you're just fixing glitches."

So please, at the risk of sounding like a ♥♥♥♥, only post concrete facts backed by sources.

Search around on VAC Discussions. The pinned threads there have info on VAC.
Also, section 4(?) on the Subscriber Agreement.

Yes!!! Thank you! That's what I was looking for.

[Ishraqiyun]

It would be immoral to sell products to people that didn't do as they were described, such as bugged achievements, non-functioning features, non-response to user submitted requests etc. Beyond that, any other moral questions are mere quibbles.

[Start_Running]

Save game manipulation is not considered cheating., but they are not responsioble for damage or loss of progress. Neither is downloading someone else's. TWeaking ini and cfg files doesn't offer any advantage beyond improving game performance on your own syste, Most of the settings are just things you can set in the games options menu.

As for Achievement unlockers. That's a game by game thing. If you have it running while connected to a multiplayer server. There is a chance it will be detected as a cheat (not because it is a cheat but just because it acts like a cheat program). These bans are of course non-negotiable.

[TheColorUrple]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Save game manipulation is not considered cheating., but they are not responsioble for damage or loss of progress. Neither is downloading someone else's. TWeaking ini and cfg files doesn't offer any advantage beyond improving game performance on your own syste, Most of the settings are just things you can set in the games options menu.

As for Achievement unlockers. That's a game by game thing. If you have it running while connected to a multiplayer server. There is a chance it will be detected as a cheat (not because it is a cheat but just because it acts like a cheat program). These bans are of course non-negotiable.

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the reply

[RGX12]

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

Originally posted by Albcatmastercat:

Ah, yes. If you DID do what you needed to, then yes, save manipulation may be allowed (I still wouldn't do it because of being around too many cheaters on Terraria).
Tell your friend to keep legit regarding achievements (only using said methods if achievements glitch or something). After all, the whole point of achievements is to show you achieved something, don't you agree?

I am not interested in discussing how I feel about cheating, that's the whole point I'm trying to make. I *just* want to talk about Valve policy. And to that end, I can't imagine there's anything written that says "well it's okay to do as long as you're just fixing glitches."

So please, at the risk of sounding like a ♥♥♥♥, only post concrete facts backed by sources.

Cheating, in the context that Valve/Steam prohibits, only concerns itself with game-play, specifically games you play against other people, i.e., online multi-player games.

If you, or your friend, or whomever else wants to hack away at and game the achievements (however ridiculous and pointless that is)--then by all means, have at it! I assure you, Steam could not care less.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Yes, save game malipulation is cheating.

A saved game will not cause an achivement to get flagged though. What is sounds like is more like you are loading a save where the conditions for a bug have not been triggered, then doing what is needed to get said achivement.

In SIngle Player it does not matter as there is no Anti-Cheat involved. Games with Anti-Cheat would be the only issue where a ban may accure, but those don't have save files and tend to store things on the developer's servers.

The game you are talking about has not AC in place and is single player.

Honestly, being able to cheat achivement is what makes the pointless to begin with and ensures they will never have any real value. If increasing the number of something that is pointless makes you feel better about yourself, then feel free to do so. Those who cheat achivements are only cheating themselves.

Originally posted by TheColorUrple:

That's why I'm asking. For a friend.

Your friend should be able to ask on his/her own. If he/she is so embarrassed that he/she can't do so, then there is already guilt at using such a method to get said achivement and considered it cheating...the same holds true with someone asking in the 3rd person.

[RGX12]

Originally posted by Spawn Of Totoro:

Yes, save game malipulation is cheating.

A saved game will not cause an achivement to get flagged though. What is sounds like is more like you are loading a save where the conditions for a bug have not been triggered, then doing what is needed to get said achivement.

In SIngle Player it does not matter as there is no Anti-Cheat involved. Games with Anti-Cheat would be the only issue where a ban may accure, but those don't have save files and tend to store things on the developer's servers.

The game you are talking about has not AC in place and is single player.

Honestly, being able to cheat achivement is what makes the pointless to begin with and ensures they will never have any real value. If increasing the number of something that is pointless makes you feel better about yourself, then feel free to do so. Those who cheat achivements are only cheating themselves.

The sad truth is that the cheating* is already so pervasive and rampant that they [achievements] do not have any value now--at least not in my eyes.

*I use the term 'cheating' very loosely, because although I personally consider manipulating achievements to be quite sad and pointless, to cheat implies there is a competition of some sort, and I consider achievements to be for self-gratification only.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by RGX12:

The sad truth is that the cheating* is already so pervasive and rampant that they [achievements] do not have any value now--at least not in my eyes.

*I use the term 'cheating' very loosely, because although I personally consider manipulating achievements to be quite sad and pointless, to cheat implies there is a competition of some sort, and I consider achievements to be for self-gratification only.

But it is possible to cheat your self.

People also tend to view achivements as a competition, so cheating achivements (being something you compare with others) would fall under cheating even for single player games.