Steam Market: Spectacular Sucess or Fantastic Failure?
I'd like to DISCUSS what other people think about the market. Like if you want to have a DISCUSSION about your views on whether it's been an overall success, a limited success, a huge failure, or specific failure. Whatever the case, what are your issues with it and what do you like about it? I personally don't need any help on the issue. I have views on it of course but I'm more curious right now for other to DISCUSS their views. I don't think I need any tips either. But anyways, DISCUSS.
< >
Exibindo comentários 7690 de 104
crunchyfrog 21/out./2013 às 22:15 
Escrito originalmente por SPG:
Escrito originalmente por OzFur Moonsoul:
I think it's a failure in some rights and a success in others, plus it gives you easy access to badges if you're willing to part with a few dollars at MOST

I think that pretty well sums it up. On the failure side, the market is pretty well crashing now as was bound to happen sooner or later.

Except that there's no need to spend a single penny
Ok, i am goint to start by saying that i dont want this to start a huge argument, mostly because it would be pointless. Now onto my points.

1) Market crashing
The Market is in no way crashing right now, in fact it isa just reaching its most advanced stage. The reason this is is because valve adopted the Hong Kong system of economics for their market. This system involves ultimate free market trading of goods for currncy with no direct controll from valve, but valve allways applies a flat tax to all transactions. you see the prices that people ask for cards is determined only by the seller. i could ask 100$ for this emoticon:B1: but there is no guarentee it would sell because the oter people are setting their own asking price and buyers will allways pay the lesser value for the same good. The reason the pricesd of things seem to be universally dropping is because the goods are approaching their ideal price, essentially the minimum price dealers are willing to set their goods at, once this point is reached the values of these items will even out and remain constant. as of now this is observable with most card sets coming to a total price of approxamitely one dollar US for each badge level, of corse there are still exceptions and ass new goods are added to the system their initial price will likely be much higher then ther final value, the system will allways trend twoards this stability.

2) How the Wallet Works.
The Main confusion that the wallet system causes is the way that conversion and taxation occurs.

When you imput Money into your Steam Wallet the money is till yours, it is just in another format, similar to a gift card. Even though these funds can only be spent through steam in either the store or the Marketplace it is still your money. a good analogy would be if you were to convert all your money from us dollars to yen, you would not be able to go to the store and buy a soda with it, but if you were in japan you could buy whatever you wanted. the transition of the money does not take it away from you it just alters where the funds may be spent.

As for the Taxation, it is important to understand that it costs virtually nothing for trading cards or the other objects on the marketplace to be created. these objects being virtual have no intrinsic value. the value is thus perscribed to them by the marketplace. Valve (And the publisher of the related game) only earn money through sales tak on these market trades, much like a government does in the real world. Of corse valve makes money off of the market sales but, much like any government, they do this to cover the expenses of maintaining the ability of it's users to continue doing sales. a government builds roads and privides military protection, Valve makes sure that the servers for the games and the market keep running.

3)But what if i dont like it?
Then dont use the service. if you dont care about the trading cards or the badges then there is no need to fret about any of this, the market runs itself regardless of the apathy of it shown by some. and for those who say that people who use the market loose out, they only do if they think that they do. you see as it was stated realier in this rather long discussion, you can trade cards directly between people with no monitary transaction necisary. but yo have to find a person with the exact things that you need. if you have that then fine, the market isnt for you, but the market exists now and allways exists to make it faster and easier to trade between people, with valve taking a small chunk of the revinue for providing the convienience. the main point is if you think that the convienence is worth the 15% Tax which goes to the Devs and the providers of this entire great social gaming network then use the market. if not, then just go about your buisness ignoring it, it isnt hurting you any.
crunchyfrog 22/out./2013 às 1:08 
Well said Sir Senovan - you are indeed worthy of such a title.
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
Well said Sir Senovan - you are indeed worthy of such a title.
Thank you very much, comments like yours mean alot to me.:B1:
crunchyfrog 22/out./2013 às 1:13 
Escrito originalmente por Sir Senovan of the Holy Spear:
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
Well said Sir Senovan - you are indeed worthy of such a title.
Thank you very much, comments like yours mean alot to me.:B1:

You're most welcome - it's nice to see open, and logical discussion.
SPG 22/out./2013 às 6:16 
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
Except that there's no need to spend a single penny

You're right, as my steam wallet will testify, and that is the success side of the equation. I've made a couple of hundred dollars on the market buying and selling. It was a trememdous amount of work and time though. The reason I was able to make money that has the "real value" of being viable currency in the store is because there was enough of a differential in the card prices that I could buy low and sell high.

The failure side of the equation is that with card prices dropping like stones, I can no longer make a profit on the market. The result is that if this trend continues, I will likely stop using the market alltogether. That means that its usefulness to me is "finite." Even if I cared about levelling up any further, eventually I would still reach the limit of the market's usefulness.

Of course there will always be a percentage of people who will buy cards, but the numbers will be much less that those who are listing cards and so the vast majority of cards will not sell. Why the market fails is because the "product" it sells has a "limited" value and even no value to people who don't care about the badges. It's only other value is the ability to make money for your steam wallet, but that is now quickly becoming unviable.

The important point here is that product that is the "nucleus" of both trading and the market has either no value, little value or limited value to people and that is why the market is crashing. The only "real" value of the market is the ability to make "real" money. (I'm not talking about less than a dollar selling your drops. That's a one time thing) With that ability fast disappearing, the market is drying up. There is now too much supply and not enough demand.

Kuro 22/out./2013 às 6:26 
The biggest failure of the market is that there is absolutely zero initial measures against market bots. Even a simple captcha would stop them from completely ruining the market.
SPG 22/out./2013 às 6:37 
Yes, they have contributed greatly to its downfall.
Tito Shivan 22/out./2013 às 7:08 
Escrito originalmente por SPG:

The failure side of the equation is that with card prices dropping like stones, I can no longer make a profit on the market. The result is that if this trend continues, I will likely stop using the market alltogether. That means that its usefulness to me is "finite." Even if I cared about levelling up any further, eventually I would still reach the limit of the market's usefulness.
What you call 'price dropping like stones' is just price stabilization. Cards are a high supply item. There's literally no room for arbitrage when supply is high. Only when supply is limited (when a new game has cards) there's room for people making a good share of the cards.

Look at one and every card on the market. There is no single sales graph being a straight line down to 0. They all feature the same graph. Big downward fall on the first moments after relase. Then a long flat line of a stable price. That's no how a failing market looks.

Also consider cards are NOT a high return value investment, unless you are a opportunistic trader or move a high volume of them.
Trading Cards play the equivalent to those shares that are pretty much stable, but they offer very little benefit per unit.
Última edição por Tito Shivan; 22/out./2013 às 7:09
SPG 22/out./2013 às 8:15 
We're not talking about what the market does. If anyone's been on it as much as I have, they can see what it does.

The question is whether what it does is a success or a failure and the answer is "both" depending on what a person's goals are for using it or not using it.
Escrito originalmente por Sir Senovan of the Holy Spear:
Ok, i am goint to start by saying that i dont want this to start a huge argument, mostly because it would be pointless. Now onto my points.

1) Market crashing
The Market is in no way crashing right now, in fact it isa just reaching its most advanced stage. The reason this is is because valve adopted the Hong Kong system of economics for their market. This system involves ultimate free market trading of goods for currncy with no direct controll from valve, but valve allways applies a flat tax to all transactions.
Maybe not control but Valve has plenty of market manipulation from their side. Simply by changing the quality of an item, changing it's drop chance or giving it as a limited time item.. or increasing how common it is. All these factors are in Valve's control and they certainly exercise that control more often than you'd think.
crunchyfrog 22/out./2013 às 14:10 
Escrito originalmente por SPG:
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
Except that there's no need to spend a single penny

You're right, as my steam wallet will testify, and that is the success side of the equation. I've made a couple of hundred dollars on the market buying and selling. It was a trememdous amount of work and time though. The reason I was able to make money that has the "real value" of being viable currency in the store is because there was enough of a differential in the card prices that I could buy low and sell high.

The failure side of the equation is that with card prices dropping like stones, I can no longer make a profit on the market. The result is that if this trend continues, I will likely stop using the market alltogether. That means that its usefulness to me is "finite." Even if I cared about levelling up any further, eventually I would still reach the limit of the market's usefulness.

Of course there will always be a percentage of people who will buy cards, but the numbers will be much less that those who are listing cards and so the vast majority of cards will not sell. Why the market fails is because the "product" it sells has a "limited" value and even no value to people who don't care about the badges. It's only other value is the ability to make money for your steam wallet, but that is now quickly becoming unviable.

The important point here is that product that is the "nucleus" of both trading and the market has either no value, little value or limited value to people and that is why the market is crashing. The only "real" value of the market is the ability to make "real" money. (I'm not talking about less than a dollar selling your drops. That's a one time thing) With that ability fast disappearing, the market is drying up. There is now too much supply and not enough demand.

Fair point, but you're overlooking one important point.

You DON'T EVER need to spend money - you can merely trade, as is one clear intention. They are called TRADING cards after all.

The market isn't drying up in any case, it is merely settling, after the initial free-for-all. This is common in every other market when it starts up. If you've seen any new product go up on Ebay, for example, you'll see the same thing happen until supplies saturate.

Granted supply may change, as the system is new and Valve will be monitoring it. The only thing drying up are people's unreasonable expectations.
Escrito originalmente por SPG:
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
Except that there's no need to spend a single penny



The important point here is that product that is the "nucleus" of both trading and the market has either no value, little value or limited value to people and that is why the market is crashing. The only "real" value of the market is the ability to make "real" money. (I'm not talking about less than a dollar selling your drops. That's a one time thing) With that ability fast disappearing, the market is drying up. There is now too much supply and not enough demand.

You are jumping to a conclusion that isn't justified. The point of the market isnt' just for you to make profit. Its a system for trading. If there are too many of certain item, the prices drop, thats fine, as long as some people are incentivised to sell aka provide the service, the system works. The system only breaks down when even rare expensive goods cannot be traded because people literally cannot be bothered, and so buyers can't get what they want at any price, and we are never getting to that point. You can buy whatever u want now at the right price, even if its the wrong price for you personally to make a profit, it doesn't matter.


The market isn't "crashing" because what you hve isn't worth what you thought. Its like someone claiming the car market is crashing because their old beater isn't worth anything.
Última edição por MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™; 23/out./2013 às 20:34
crunchyfrog 23/out./2013 às 20:35 
Escrito originalmente por MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™ #idle:
Escrito originalmente por SPG:



The important point here is that product that is the "nucleus" of both trading and the market has either no value, little value or limited value to people and that is why the market is crashing. The only "real" value of the market is the ability to make "real" money. (I'm not talking about less than a dollar selling your drops. That's a one time thing) With that ability fast disappearing, the market is drying up. There is now too much supply and not enough demand.

You are jumping to a conclusion that isn't justified. The point of the market isnt' just for you to make profit. Its a system for trading. If there are too many of certain item, the prices drop, thats fine, as long as some people are incentivised to sell aka provide the service, the system works. The system only breaks down when even rare expensive goods cannot be traded because people literally cannot be bothered, and so buyers can't get what they want at any price, and we are never getting to that point. You can buy whatever u want now at the right price, even if its the wrong price for you personally to make a profit, it doesn't matter.


The market isn't "crashing" because what you hve isn't worth what you thought. Its like someone claiming the car market is crashing because their old beater isn't worth anything.

Precisely.

SPG 23/out./2013 às 21:52 
Well, I'm not going to argue. Let's just say that you guys seem to have missed the salient points.
< >
Exibindo comentários 7690 de 104
Por página: 1530 50

Publicado em: 11/out./2013 às 7:15
Mensagens: 104