Refund policy is poorly-worded and not great.

[ucksmayitfay]

I explained my situation and I didn't get a refund for an early access game with less than 2 hours of game-play. Barely feels any better than competitor refund policies at this point. "Purchasing with no risk" my arse. Even the 2 hour countdown can be debated because of many games having very long cutscenes that stretch that time out, but THAT part is reasonable. The arbitrary 2 week time limit, however, makes me not want to buy digital anymore, even on Steam.

February amendments from later in the thread:
-The refund policy is generally worded well in retrospect, but the early access/pre-release section in particular is worded poorly. It needs to specify what qualifies as a "release date" and specifically state that games in early access count as having a release date.
-I didn't know about the fees, charge-backs(?) to the developers, history of digital storefront refunds, and so on, so I take back a lot of this post.
-I'm doing a 180 to say 2 hours across-the-board is bad, since some games can be beat in two hours while others (like Far Cry 4 with its unskippable cutscenes) barely even get started by two hours. Two weekends to meditate on the purchase decision IS fine, however. Maybe an improvement to the refund system would be ~15% of the average time it takes to complete the game. This data could be drawn from "beating the main story" achievements in relation to the playtime counter, community feedback, or journalism sites. Then for pay-to-play competitive games (Team Fortress Classic is the only one I can think of), you could get two hours and thirty minutes of playtime for the refund window. as that would probably be enough time to get a basic feeling for these games and have a few sessions (for single player mixed with pay-to-play competitive games like GTA Online, the programming would be complex, so base it on the story time return window plus two hours and thirty minutes). ~6 hours in GTA San Andreas and ~4 hours in Far Cry 4 would be a great demo periods.
-I was still right about all the competitors having the same or greater refund periods. Even anti-consumer EA gives you 24 hours after launch for a refund, which is a lot fairer than TWO.
-Fees could be addressed with only partial refunds (like 50%) under certain circumstances.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

Before 2015 they had no actual refund policy.

引用自 crunchyfrog：

You are demonstrably wrong.

Prove it then: You claimed Steam didn't have a refund policy in 2015 so the burden of proof is on you to prove to us that your claim is true.

引用自 crunchyfrog：

So by all means prove to me where this refund policy was before 2015.

NOPE! That's not how it works. You were the first one to write that steam did not have a refund policy before 2015. You said it first. You must prove your statement since you wrote it first. I'm the challenger. I do not have to prove anything, you do. I challenge you to prove your claim true.

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 Ontrix_Kitsune：

引用自 crunchyfrog：

Before 2015 they had no actual refund policy.

引用自 crunchyfrog：

You are demonstrably wrong.

Prove it then: You claimed Steam didn't have a refund policy in 2015 so the burden of proof is on you to prove to us that your claim is true.

引用自 crunchyfrog：

So by all means prove to me where this refund policy was before 2015.

NOPE! That's not how it works. You were the first one to write that steam did not have a refund policy before 2015. You said it first. You must prove your statement since you wrote it first. I'm the challenger. I do not have to prove anything, you do. I challenge you to prove your claim true.

EWrm yes it is that is exactly how burden of proof works.

YOU assert there was a refund policy before this. I don't believe your claim.

The burden of proof is on YOU. I cannot provide evidence for something I haven't said as that's not how it works.

The person asserting the positive claim ALWAYS has burden of proof. Read for yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

So unless you demosntrate evidence of what you claim it must be dismissed as bollocks.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

YOU assert there was a refund policy before this. I don't believe your claim.

I don't believe you when you stated that Steam did not have a refund policy before 2015. Prove that first. If you refuse again then I'll just automatically assume what you wrote is not true since you won't prove it.

You do not get to just write blanket claims like that without proof. Either prove it or it didn't happen.

[Komarimaru]

Pre the new refund policy, you could get a refund from Steam, if you could show that local laws granted you one. So, anything before 2015, most in America, Canada and UK had no issues. Sadly it wasn't until after the changes in 2015 for others without some difficulty.

Example.
https://i.imgur.com/PHALr9T.png

But you could, but at the same time, could not.

I would also add, this was everyone back then too, not just Steam. Some still do not like Blizzard if ya played it.

[ucksmayitfay]

Alright, I already regret my purchase of Webfishing and TFC. I'd get more out of GTA 4 At least it's only been less than 24 hours and zero playtime, so let's see if the refunds go through. I don't want to repeat being a refunder, but I'm not great with my purchasing decisions when it comes to games. They're so cheap that it's easy to impulse buy them when I could've bought one really good game for the price of two mediocre ones. At least this is only my second day of wanting a refund, and the first time, I only wanted a refund on one game. I feel bad, but at least I caught my mistake very early on this time.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

Alright, I already regret my purchase of Webfishing and TFC. I'd get more out of GTA 4 At least it's only been less than 24 hours and zero playtime, so let's see if the refunds go through. I don't want to repeat being a refunder, but I'm not great with my purchasing decisions when it comes to games. They're so cheap that it's easy to impulse buy them when I could've bought one really good game for the price of two mediocre ones. At least this is only my second day of wanting a refund, and the first time, I only wanted a refund on one game. I feel bad, but at least I caught my mistake very early on this time.

I'd suggest doing research in the future before making a purchase. Too many refunds could limit your account for future ones.

Refund system isn't to demo games.

[ucksmayitfay]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

Alright, I already regret my purchase of Webfishing and TFC. I'd get more out of GTA 4 At least it's only been less than 24 hours and zero playtime, so let's see if the refunds go through. I don't want to repeat being a refunder, but I'm not great with my purchasing decisions when it comes to games. They're so cheap that it's easy to impulse buy them when I could've bought one really good game for the price of two mediocre ones. At least this is only my second day of wanting a refund, and the first time, I only wanted a refund on one game. I feel bad, but at least I caught my mistake very early on this time.

I'd suggest doing research in the future before making a purchase. Too many refunds could limit your account for future ones.

Refund system isn't to demo games.

I didn't play them at ALL, though, so they weren't exactly "demos". They were impulse purchases. And if I get banned from refunding over ten dollar indecisiveness every few months or less, I'll just switch platforms or appeal the ban a year later or something.

And this was less about "research" and more about the fact I suddenly deleted my library of about 5 pirated games, so I don't want mediocre ones that were peer pressure impulse purchases versus tried and true ones if they get in the way of legally purchasing the ones I really want. Palworld is fine to not be refunded, but Webfishing and TFC are mid to the point where I regretted purchasing them in under 24 hours of purchase. I don't refund other kinds of purchases much at all unless they're defective (I've had moments of buyer's remorse for my 1080p 144hz monitor + 4060 setup, but the more I sit on it, I realize it's fine and ~250 more dollars of upgrades could make it excellent), but I'm stricter about digital games because it's easier to impulse buy them and harder to sell them in the future. When I'm buying something that's not an asset, I hold less value to it and am more likely to refund it. There's the marketing data for marketing researchers reading this thread, if any exist.

[Satoru]

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

I didn't play them at ALL, though, so they weren't exactly "demos". They were impulse purchases. And if I get banned from refunding over ten dollar indecisiveness every few months or less, I'll just switch platforms or appeal the ban a year later or something.

This has all the energy of attempting to rules lawyer your way out of behavior you know is breaking thre rules

[ucksmayitfay]

引用自 Satoru：

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

I didn't play them at ALL, though, so they weren't exactly "demos". They were impulse purchases. And if I get banned from refunding over ten dollar indecisiveness every few months or less, I'll just switch platforms or appeal the ban a year later or something.

This has all the energy of attempting to rules lawyer your way out of behavior you know is breaking thre rules

If it's breaking the rules to do it every once in a blue moon, that sux, since many competitors take about a day to get the products shipped out and you can occasionally request cancellation, and many physical products accept returns within 30 days. It's not like the payment got sent to the devs yet. I've taken the time to request a speedy refund, and there's ZERO install or playtime on record, so if that's "abuse", and it goes beyond not getting refunded to actually getting BANNED from the PriVILEgE of getting refunds, then we live in a corporate dystopia where it's pretty much just as bad as before Steam even HAD refunds.

For reference, I've only tried to refund 40 dollars of product out of around 90 dollars of total purchases, or about 3 games of about 7, with two of the games yesterday and one game almost a month ago. The 30 dollar product refund got denied and I accepted that, as I fell outside the window, so I can't abuse a process if it didn't get me a result. Intentions be damned, because the lack of a refund would be the punishment in that case, like no need for extra on top of that.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

引用自 Satoru：

This has all the energy of attempting to rules lawyer your way out of behavior you know is breaking thre rules

If it's breaking the rules, that's cringe, since many competitors take about a day to get the products shipped out and you can occasionally request cancellation, and many physical products accept returns within 30 days. It's not like the payment got sent to the devs yet. I've taken the time to request a speedy refund, and there's ZERO install or playtime on record, so if that's "abuse", and it goes beyond not getting refunded to actually getting BANNED from the PriVILEgE of getting refunds, then we live in a corporate dystopia.

It was already explained to you first page on the thread.

引用自 Nx Machina：

Refund policies - Take your pick. Note: (***) same refund policy.

(1) (***) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

(2) (***) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

(3) (***) Ubisoft (UPDATED) - You can request a refund for a digital PC game within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the game has not been played for more than two hours.

Previously it was: (You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched).

(4) EA Play - Whichever comes first.

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

(5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

(6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. #

# (Open to abuse and they monitor for abuse and reserve the right to refuse a refund as do all PC stores). https://ibb.co/ZzXPMwv


Even GOG the people's champion have set criteria for refunds.

How often can I refund my games? Is there some sort of limit?

We trust that you're making informed purchasing decisions and will use this updated voluntary Refund Policy only if something doesn't work as you expected.

We reserve the right to refuse refunds, or only offer Wallet Funds conversions, in individual cases.

Please respect all the time and hard work put into making the games you play and remember that refunds are not reviews. If you finished the game and didn't like it, please consider sharing your opinion instead.

Also, please don't take advantage of our trust by asking for an unreasonable amount of games to be refunded. Don't be that person. No one likes that person.

As shown here above.

I was just informing you, that too many refunds flags an account from future refunds for a while.

[ucksmayitfay]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

If it's breaking the rules, that's cringe, since many competitors take about a day to get the products shipped out and you can occasionally request cancellation, and many physical products accept returns within 30 days. It's not like the payment got sent to the devs yet. I've taken the time to request a speedy refund, and there's ZERO install or playtime on record, so if that's "abuse", and it goes beyond not getting refunded to actually getting BANNED from the PriVILEgE of getting refunds, then we live in a corporate dystopia.

It was already explained to you first page on the thread.

引用自 Nx Machina：

Refund policies - Take your pick. Note: (***) same refund policy.

(1) (***) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

(2) (***) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

(3) (***) Ubisoft (UPDATED) - You can request a refund for a digital PC game within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the game has not been played for more than two hours.

Previously it was: (You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched).

(4) EA Play - Whichever comes first.

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

(5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

(6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. #

# (Open to abuse and they monitor for abuse and reserve the right to refuse a refund as do all PC stores). https://ibb.co/ZzXPMwv


Even GOG the people's champion have set criteria for refunds.

How often can I refund my games? Is there some sort of limit?

We trust that you're making informed purchasing decisions and will use this updated voluntary Refund Policy only if something doesn't work as you expected.

We reserve the right to refuse refunds, or only offer Wallet Funds conversions, in individual cases.

Please respect all the time and hard work put into making the games you play and remember that refunds are not reviews. If you finished the game and didn't like it, please consider sharing your opinion instead.

Also, please don't take advantage of our trust by asking for an unreasonable amount of games to be refunded. Don't be that person. No one likes that person.

As shown here above.

I was just informing you, that too many refunds flags an account from future refunds for a while.

That's fine, I just wish there was more transparency on what "an unreasonable amount" means, and that asking shouldn't be a factor (only actually refunded games), since not getting the refund seems like a reasonable enough consequence. Buyer's remorse is enough of a pain as-is. And I don't like the concept of "informed" purchasing, because all the information in the world isn't going to prevent you from being headstrong at times (like I already did months of research into Webfishing and watched a review of TFC, I just felt buyer's remorse I didn't predict at the time). If there was a stupid tax of a 25% (sometimes 50%) refund penalty behind certain reasons under certain conditions, that could be a reasonable compromise as well.

[Komarimaru]

No store tells you, but all stores have a limit. My guess would be if too frequent, or past a certain amount triggers it. No one knows.

[ucksmayitfay]

引用自 Komarimaru：

No store tells you, but all stores have a limit. My guess would be if too frequent, or past a certain amount triggers it. No one knows.

I remember seeing on YouTube that people are silently flagged as chronic refunders and eventually get denied refunds at many brick-and-mortar stores. I totally support that, as they often waive restocking fees, destroy products, etc. and it will reduce the amount of waste and improve the used goods market. And in Steam's case, the fees and whatnot could definitely rack up for them, so I get that as well. Maybe the lack of transparency is what annoys me, or the community is more against seemingly frivolous refunds than Steam itself.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

引用自 ucksmayitfay：

That's fine, I just wish there was more transparency on what "an unreasonable amount" means

None of the stores will tell you (and no they won't tell you if you ask in a support ticket either) what the limits on returns are before they disable your ability to return again. If they posted what the limit was then people would do exactly what you're trying to do: play games for free and never pay for them.

[ucksmayitfay]

Another reason why I've been less bitter about not getting refunds on the PS4 store is because my brother can officially share any game I purchase and vice versa, so that if one of us doesn't like it, maybe the other one will, or maybe my dad or trusted friends or someone else. I don't think selling Steam games is allowed, I've heard it's at least HARD if not AGAINST THE RULES (I believe it's a non-transferrable license, but I hear about people doing it, so is that, like, piracy, like why do they do something that dumb for so little money/authentication when there's such a risk of getting banned in that case), and (censored) is DEFINITELY not allowed, so I can't share my Steam library and it makes the lack of refunds more restrictive than most other platforms (like physical media and PS store).

Edit: I wasn't condoning (censored). I was just saying that PS4 allows you to share libraries without having to break ToS, so it's a better competitor in that regard alongside physical media. If this post gets me in trouble, I'll report the person who said discussing it wasn't allowed back, since they technically used the naughty words regardless of context as well.