SAM cheating in certain scenarios?

[Moses]

Curious what people think about this. Everyone knows about SAM, and it absolutely has usefulness in certain situations such as achievements that are broken.

Do you consider SAM cheating if you give yourself achievements for:

1. A game that has multiplayer achievements but the game is dead and those achievements are no longer attainable

2. For some kind of technical reason (like right now with Far Cry 4) where there's co-op achievements but it's impossible to connect with anyone without crashing

Or I guess pretty much any other kind of scenario where, through no fault of the players own, an achievement cannot be attained legitimately. Another good example is Paladins, that game has an achievement for playing the beta, which of course is long gone.

Just curious where everyone's cutoff point is for what's considered cheating, and what's considered a valid use of the tool.

[nullable]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moses:

I think developers should only include achievements that players can earn on their own. No multiplayer achievements, no co-op exclusive achievements, and no DLC achievements listed if the player doesn't own that content. Basically, no achievement should ever reach a state of being unattainable, if it can reach that state then they should think of a new one.

The fact that you don't have friends isn't the basis for achievement dedign.

[KalGimpa]

Początkowo opublikowane przez KalCuey:

like it or not

not everyone enjoys those

they mean nothing to me

i used sam until they gave us the ability to turn the pop up off

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Donfimy:

Another game i wanted the platinum was Gmod, but just look at the achievements, they are based on how much time you wasted and the impossible one that requires you to meet garry himself in the same Server.

Garry was online for nearly 12 years after the game released, until 2017-18. At some point, you have to realize that time will make some achievements unobtainable because you can't stop it.

But there are servers that can unlock that specific achievement.

[Crazy Tiger]

Since achievements have no value other than whatever personal value people attribute to them, I don't think it matters much.

It also sounds very much that OP doesn't really care about achievements, but about their precious 100%. Looks like an "achievement hunter" who simply wants to change the sytem arbitrarily to suit their own needs.

What about the people who like those MP and co-op achievements? Or the people who actually care about the achievements and can fully accept that they never will get all of them (I like those hunters better).

[HikariLight]

Most people don't really care enough about the achievements, as they have no value.
But the rule of thumb is: Did you obtain it in the way the devs intended? If no, then yes many will consider that cheating. As MANY users spend hours to weeks to get the harder achievements and they feel cheated when some gets that same achievement at the click of a button.

[Bee4Me]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moses:

Curious what people think about this. Everyone knows about SAM, and it absolutely has usefulness in certain situations such as achievements that are broken.

Do you consider SAM cheating if you give yourself achievements for:

1. A game that has multiplayer achievements but the game is dead and those achievements are no longer attainable

2. For some kind of technical reason (like right now with Far Cry 4) where there's co-op achievements but it's impossible to connect with anyone without crashing

Or I guess pretty much any other kind of scenario where, through no fault of the players own, an achievement cannot be attained legitimately. Another good example is Paladins, that game has an achievement for playing the beta, which of course is long gone.

Just curious where everyone's cutoff point is for what's considered cheating, and what's considered a valid use of the tool.

Well...If we are talking about Steam achievements, then huge no.

If on other platforms such as Xbox (gamepass) for example, then yes. Mostly because achievements cheating there is strictly prohibited/you get bans for your own Microsoft account for that etc. Why ? Because they actually care and here is my another point: Xbox achievements are pernamently managed by Microsoft and hard part of gaming community for gamers there. That being said: There is no broken achievements and if so...They are either delisted (if no longer obtainable) or fixed asap. Devs there are basically forced to fix/delist/care about them due to Microsoft holding their hand on it as part of a functionality. Mostly you can just report it to support or even through page and then they will get fixed.

Steam ? They do not care xD. SAM (Steam achievement manager) existed really loong time and no action was made by Steam. Cuz if they did, it would be kinda interesting by the perspective how they care about this feature in the first place. And well...That is, that they do not care. Many many broken achievements/unobtainable ones and I can go on...

I won't talk here about Epic Games achievements, they can still be buggy and sometimes broken. And system has still long way to go. Still, they are better than Steam too...And I personally love Epic Games achievements system and hope for more features to come :).

Either way, I would hard disagree with ''cheating'' achievements on Steam can be said...Due to broken achievements/unobtainable ones and so on. It is pretty much not cheating if you unlock something that does not work or is just pretty much unobtainable anymore.

Anyway, that are just some basic observations about it.

The biggest factor is, that if you really care about achievements at all or you just see them as another feature not worth mentioning. I think on Steam it all comes to personal goals and preference. If you just want to have some more % for your ''Steam showcase'' then I guess why not.

Ofc Steam might be only 1, that does not care almost at all. Anywhere else, you can get banned or suspended for cheating them.

Especially on mentioned Xbox (gamepass) as the worst outcome is insta ban of your Microsoft account due to violations of their EULA.

Also some achievements cannot be cheated cuz they are ''server based'' and these achievements are impossible to modify at all. But that is very low % of games.

So pretty much I would disagree with statement, that it is cheating due to many reasons mentioned above (Steam). But I understand some people might take it personally, cuz they completed them ''legitimaly''. Still so many people might also did so as well, but it bugged or something and then...They just gave up lol. It is very uncertain what is and what is not actually ''legitimate'' here tbh...It all depends on people/reason/personal preference etc...

[Heraclius Caesar]

I see achievements as a "eye of the beholder" kind of thing.

For some folks they are absolutely meaningless, and even a source of annoyance.

For others, they're pretty awesome, highly sought after, and a source of pleasure. As another user mentioned, some cats spend many hours, days, weeks, even months going after a difficult/rare achievement, and would most likely see another player using SAM as a cheat tool.

Personally I still enjoy the sound and little animation when an achievement "pops" and I enjoy the artwork for a lot of achievements. I don't care about 100% platinum for my games and fully accept that for even my favorite/most played games I'll never 100% them because I might not play the multiplayer much/at all or care about playing as this or that faction.

That being said, I do think folks should stop using excuses like "oh I use SAM because the multiplayer for such and such game is dead now." That's too bad but if you weren't there for it then it is what it is. And for others just be honest and say you didn't feel like putting in the time & effort to get that neat little picture on your profile.

[BJWyler]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bee4Me:

So pretty much I would disagree with statement, that it is cheating due to many reasons mentioned above (Steam). But I understand some people might take it personally, cuz they completed them ''legitimaly''. Still so many people might also did so as well, but it bugged or something and then...They just gave up lol. It is very uncertain what is and what is not actually ''legitimate'' here tbh...It all depends on people/reason/personal preference etc...

Actually, it's pretty clear cut.

Did you perform the necessary action required to obtain the achievement as it was designed?

If the answer is no, then that is the dictionary definition of cheating. Simple as.

Broken achievements, as in ones that do not unlock, are a different story, and I have a couple of games for which the achievements are broken and do not unlock. Again, that gets back to the question above.

If you performed that action, then it is not cheating. If you did not perform that action, then it is cheating, even if the achievement is broken.

Once again, how one feels about that cheating is entirely dependent upon the individual. I personally do not care. People can cheat achievements all they want. It has absolutely zero bearing and impact on how I play my games, and obtain my achievements.

[ReBoot]

Unlocking an achievement without actually performing the action is cheating hands down. It's less about whose fault it is and more about whether you actually did the thing. If you didn't do the thing and have the achievement, it's cheating.

You are cheating yourself, of course so it's up to you how you want to deal with this. Still cheating.

[AROCK!!!]

Valve / STEAM has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to cheating, but does not consider SAM cheating,


I suppose an argument could be made that going strictly by definition it could be called cheating, but that could be considered an "appeal to definition" fallacy.

Personally I only consider it cheating when what you do gives you an advantage over an opponent, such as using an aim-bot or wall hack.

However, if it were say, an achievement based competition and someone used SAM or console commands, that would be cheating.

When it comes to anything else, I call it "modding". so, no, in my opinion, with the exception of the situation I described, using SAM to unlock achievements is not cheating

[steven1mac]

The only way I'd consider it cheating is if it gave you in-game items when you unlocked the achievement. I don't know if there are any games that fit that description, but I remember hearing about a few games that would ban a player for using SAM when it first came out. Overall if it is a single player game, who cares, and if it is a multiplayer and doesn't' give you a competitive advantage, it shouldn't matter.

[Moses]

Początkowo opublikowane przez nullable:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Moses:

I think developers should only include achievements that players can earn on their own. No multiplayer achievements, no co-op exclusive achievements, and no DLC achievements listed if the player doesn't own that content. Basically, no achievement should ever reach a state of being unattainable, if it can reach that state then they should think of a new one.

The fact that you don't have friends isn't the basis for achievement dedign.

When a game dies, specifically the multiplayer, nobody has friends.

There, I'm glad I was able to walk your simple brain over to the obvious point being made.

[Moses]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Crazy Tiger:

Since achievements have no value other than whatever personal value people attribute to them, I don't think it matters much.

It also sounds very much that OP doesn't really care about achievements, but about their precious 100%. Looks like an "achievement hunter" who simply wants to change the sytem arbitrarily to suit their own needs.

What about the people who like those MP and co-op achievements? Or the people who actually care about the achievements and can fully accept that they never will get all of them (I like those hunters better).

I'd say most people who care about achievements only care about whether they can do them or not. This faction of people who "prefer mutliplayer achievements", most likely doesn't exist.

And I don't think you understand what the word arbitrary means, as I mentioned several types of achievements and reasons why (the part that invalidates your arbitrary claim) they shouldn't exist.

What purpose does an achievement serve if nobody can achieve it? What purpose is there for an achievement in one game if it has requirements attached to a separate game?

Again, please only use words if you understand their meaning.

[Moses]

Początkowo opublikowane przez HikariLight:

Most people don't really care enough about the achievements, as they have no value.
But the rule of thumb is: Did you obtain it in the way the devs intended? If no, then yes many will consider that cheating. As MANY users spend hours to weeks to get the harder achievements and they feel cheated when some gets that same achievement at the click of a button.

Right, but I'm not talking about difficult achievements, I'm talking about achievements that a player cannot attain through no fault of their own.

[Lunacy]

If I were to check your 100% game and see the majority are unlocked at the same time (aside from newly added achievements being retroactively unlocked simultaneously upon login, or earning multiples at the same time) then I have zero respect or appreciation for your meaningless
fake accomplishment. And now you have nothing more to strive for and cheat yourself out of potentially dozens more hours of fun.