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Finding a good new RPG is impossible
They either arent RPG's like the Witcher, amall scale CRPGs like Baldurs Gate or they are about 20 years old.
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Сообщения 7690 из 305
Автор сообщения: crunchyfrog
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Thats called a bad campaign with a bad DM.

Is it? How do you work that one out?

If it's in the rules and relevant to the story and campaign then please do demonstrate why.
Because you are telling me what my character is feeling. In that case just run the campaign yourself and DM while playing.
Автор сообщения: BJWyler
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
A modern replacement to games like daggerfall, or a modern version of something like Morrowind, or even something like KCD but where it has magic and you can actually create a character and a class.
Unfortunately, the classic dungeon crawler like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder have fallen out of favor. I have been searching for modern replacements/versions of these for over 30 years. The closet I have come was Dragon Age: Origins and Guild Wars.

It's just the nature of the Game Industry Beast. At this point, the only way to find the game you are looking for is to make it yourself. In the mean time, I have found plenty of other games and genres that are very enjoyable and worth the money, and just go back to playing my classics to satisfy the dungeon crawling itch.
Daggerfall isnt a dungeon crawler like Wizardry I happen to not like those kinds of games.
Автор сообщения: BJWyler
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
A modern replacement to games like daggerfall, or a modern version of something like Morrowind, or even something like KCD but where it has magic and you can actually create a character and a class.
Unfortunately, the classic dungeon crawler like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder have fallen out of favor. I have been searching for modern replacements/versions of these for over 30 years. The closet I have come was Dragon Age: Origins and Guild Wars.

It's just the nature of the Game Industry Beast. At this point, the only way to find the game you are looking for is to make it yourself. In the mean time, I have found plenty of other games and genres that are very enjoyable and worth the money, and just go back to playing my classics to satisfy the dungeon crawling itch.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Thats called a bad campaign with a bad DM.
Pff, then you really have never played a proper D&D campaign, my friend. I suggest you open your eyes and your perspective when hunting for the treasure of an RPG game.
If in a campaign your DM is telling you how your character feels then he has basically stopped you from role playing therefore bad DMing.
Автор сообщения: BJWyler
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
A modern replacement to games like daggerfall, or a modern version of something like Morrowind, or even something like KCD but where it has magic and you can actually create a character and a class.
Unfortunately, the classic dungeon crawler like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder have fallen out of favor. I have been searching for modern replacements/versions of these for over 30 years. The closet I have come was Dragon Age: Origins and Guild Wars.

It's just the nature of the Game Industry Beast. At this point, the only way to find the game you are looking for is to make it yourself. In the mean time, I have found plenty of other games and genres that are very enjoyable and worth the money, and just go back to playing my classics to satisfy the dungeon crawling itch.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Thats called a bad campaign with a bad DM.
Pff, then you really have never played a proper D&D campaign, my friend. I suggest you open your eyes and your perspective when hunting for the treasure of an RPG game.
Seriously?

Please don't make silly strawman arguments. Because that's not helpful to the discussion.

I grew up in the 1970s. We would often have some really good late night campaigns back in the day. One of my oldest friends I always thought was a great DM and went into detail like this ended up doing a degree in compuater science and working in the industry making such games. Sadly he's passed away now. I miss him greatly.

Another was an owner of a local computer shop and he was a bloody genius too. He designed his own computers more than once, wrote plenty of utilities and games.

So please don't be so silly to say I don't know what I'm talking about.

It is EASLY possible to offer such in a good campaign. Again BG3 does it, you just don't like it.

The error you seem to be making is one of lack of imagination. You seem to think that ONLY telling you how to think is what is being offered. That's not the case. It's valuable feedback that's telling you ADDITIONAL data that can't be offered in other ways.

For example, I remember one of our first campaigns with the DM I spoke of. It was introducing a couple of newer players so he had this kind of introductory small pre-campaign to get them up to speed. It was a short dungeon nearby a village where the ACTUAL campaign was due to start. In this village was a mayor and his daughters and he tasked you to do a quest going to this nearby small dungeon. He wanted a hero type to marry his daughters so he had the additional agenda of trying to use this as a means to find a stuiablt suitor. That was the pre-amble which was more for us more experienced players.

The point here was that how we did in this dungeon was two fold - to introduce the new players to how things work and what's expected, and to us more experienced players a couple of things that can set us up going forwards. In any case, there were a couple of things that affected mood in this dungeon and it was subtly messaged to us.

When we got back to the village and complated the quest the mood was relevant to how we fared in suitability for the hand of his daughters. One player (one of the newbies) failed a roll so hard that the "easier" daughter thought he was mentally disabled, causing a bit of a laugh.

So please do tell me that's bad DMing.
Отредактировано crunchyfrog; 15 янв. 2024 г. в 17:39
Have you tried Kingdom Come Deliverance?

It's not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination but it sure is a half decent open-world rpg.
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Автор сообщения: The nameless Commander
No longer that much in demand. People don't want to spend hours bumbling around on huge maps without knowing where they have to go like in Planescape Torment, Divinity and Fallout 1. The folks who could appreciate that no longer have time for it, being stuck in a 9-5 schedule and the rest (myself included) wants things happening faster on the screen.
The RTS genre is going through a similar situation, so I know how you feel. It's a shame but... can't change the fact that the kind of game you want is no longer highly in demand and thus no longer widely and readily available. The best approach you can take is search patiently.
I dont agree that they arent in demand. Devs just dont make them because they take time and some technological understanding and ambition, something that is lacking in modern games developers.
Devs don't make them because they don't see enough of a market to be worth the time and effort. Those are expensive things you know.. Unless devs see a growing demand for such games they aren't going to spend 5 years developing one.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
People are willing to spend loads of time playing games. The amount of time people spend in games hasnt changed.
But will enough people spend money on said game?
THat's the big question.
I'm not saying the demand isn't there. the thing is the devs aren't seeing ENOUGH of a demand. Development like most businesses is all about Return on Interest.

A dev has to consider what will be the best return on the 5 years of dev costs.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Just look at recent open world games that call themselves RPG, the things that separates them from being RPG is mostly scope and scale, why? Because devs just cant be bothered to put in the extra effort and time it takes to make a real RPG.
A real RPG has nothing to do with scope or scale.
It's more about story and immersion.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Ill say even DOS2 and BG3 arent really RPG's far too small scale.
So you;r're basically looking for something like SKyrim basically. yeah. Wait for Skyrim 6 m8.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Just look at the sheer amount of people who still play "RPG's" of over 10 years ago, look at Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms, people want these games but its just modern game devs are basically sub par. All they do is turn out the same poorly made crap over and over and over.
Funnily enough,. Daggerfall didn't do that well when it was initially released. Heck the first Elderscrolls game that actually became popular was Morrowind. There's allso the free availability of daggerfall and the fact that the unity remake actually makes it reasonably playable for most people these days.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
The best example of this is the new retro shooter genre. They are just all the same and lazy.
But them make more money than the RPGs you like so devs gonna make them.
Honestly this is less about a lack of RPGs and more about RPGs that specifically cater to YOUR tastes.

UMty self. I'm looking forward to the Wizardry Remake. Yum!.
That game caused me So much pain.
Gotta love an RPG that gives you the freedom to completely bone yourself.

COurse I would kill for Mordor : Depths of Djenol to be available on STeam. opr even remade.
Отредактировано Start_Running; 15 янв. 2024 г. в 19:19
Автор сообщения: Start_Running
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
I dont agree that they arent in demand. Devs just dont make them because they take time and some technological understanding and ambition, something that is lacking in modern games developers.
Devs don't make them because they don't see enough of a market to be worth the time and effort. Those are expensive things you know.. Unless devs see a growing demand for such games they aren't going to spend 5 years developing one.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
People are willing to spend loads of time playing games. The amount of time people spend in games hasnt changed.
But will enough people spend money on said game?
THat's the big question.
I'm not saying the demand isn't there. the thing is the devs aren't seeing ENOUGH of a demand. Development like most businesses is all about Return on Interest.

A dev has to consider what will be the best return on the 5 years of dev costs.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Just look at recent open world games that call themselves RPG, the things that separates them from being RPG is mostly scope and scale, why? Because devs just cant be bothered to put in the extra effort and time it takes to make a real RPG.
A real RPG has nothing to do with scope or scale.
It's more about story and immersion.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Ill say even DOS2 and BG3 arent really RPG's far too small scale.
So you;r're basically looking for something like SKyrim basically. yeah. Wait for Skyrim 6 m8.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Just look at the sheer amount of people who still play "RPG's" of over 10 years ago, look at Daggerfall Unity and Wayward Realms, people want these games but its just modern game devs are basically sub par. All they do is turn out the same poorly made crap over and over and over.
Funnily enough,. Daggerfall didn't do that well when it was initially released. Heck the first Elderscrolls game that actually became popular was Morrowind. There's allso the free availability of daggerfall and the fact that the unity remake actually makes it reasonably playable for most people these days.

Автор сообщения: p0mpous
The best example of this is the new retro shooter genre. They are just all the same and lazy.
But them make more money than the RPGs you like so devs gonna make them.
Honestly this is less about a lack of RPGs and more about RPGs that specifically cater to YOUR tastes.

UMty self. I'm looking forward to the Wizardry Remake. Yum!.
That game caused me So much pain.
Gotta love an RPG that gives you the freedom to completely bone yourself.

COurse I would kill for Mordor : Depths of Djenol to be available on STeam. opr even remade.
Not enough marker yet these broken Bethesda games still sell well and are still played by many people.

Scope and scale do matter. If you have one story and only one real story then the space left for the main character is very narrow. In a more open ended game you can shape your story and actually RP.

No, Skyrim is far too shallow.
Отредактировано p0mpous; 16 янв. 2024 г. в 4:19
Why not play something like Kenshi?
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Why not play something like Kenshi?
Just not really what I am looking for.
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Why not play something like Kenshi?
Just not really what I am looking for.
Have you considered that you might be too critical in your demands/preferences?
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Just not really what I am looking for.
Have you considered that you might be too critical in your demands/preferences?
I really dont think I am. For years these kinds of games have existed and they still exist its just most of them are old or the new ones that are similar just arent very good.

I mean there is this Tainted Grail one which is clearly trying to do a similar thing. Tried it and its just awful.
Отредактировано p0mpous; 16 янв. 2024 г. в 4:45
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Scope and scale do matter. If you have one story and only one real story then the space left for the main character is very narrow. In a more open ended game you can shape your story and actually RP.

No, Skyrim is far too shallow.

Planescape Torment has only ONE main story. Everything else are side quests. Same goes for practically every RPG. They have ONE MAIN story line and side quests. The difference is how much freedom they all offer in terms of HOW you want to complete the quests. Making even one story requires TIME AND EFFORT. And that has to pay off. And if you cannot appreciate the work put behind ONE story, why should anyone bother creating more than one? Play tabletop games and make your own stories if one well-written main story isn't enough for you. Or pick up Shadowrun Dragonfall or Hong Kong and make your own campaigns. Your demands are way too high.
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Have you considered that you might be too critical in your demands/preferences?
I really dont think I am. For years these kinds of games have existed and they still exist its just most of them are old or the new ones that are similar just arent very good.

I mean there is this Tainted Grail one which is clearly trying to do a similar thing. Tried it and its just awful.
I honestly think that in todays market you are being too critical. Plenty of games have existed that don't really get made anymore because there isn't enough interested audience to warrant the costs to make those games, or make them right at least. And in the off-chance that there is a large enough group, remaking an older title is in todays market a much safer option, it seems.

In this case you're looking for a type of game that gets close to tabletop. The good ones were made in an era where tabletop was bigger as well. Many devs and players from then were tabletop players (myself included, mind). In todays age, that's not so much true anymore.

You're wanting something that doesn't have the market or appeal it used to have anymore. So if you're not ok with the modern variants of such games, you are SOL in that regard. I think that you're not the type of audience that sparks much interest with game devs/publishers anymore.
Автор сообщения: Crazy Tiger
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
I really dont think I am. For years these kinds of games have existed and they still exist its just most of them are old or the new ones that are similar just arent very good.

I mean there is this Tainted Grail one which is clearly trying to do a similar thing. Tried it and its just awful.
I honestly think that in todays market you are being too critical. Plenty of games have existed that don't really get made anymore because there isn't enough interested audience to warrant the costs to make those games, or make them right at least. And in the off-chance that there is a large enough group, remaking an older title is in todays market a much safer option, it seems.

In this case you're looking for a type of game that gets close to tabletop. The good ones were made in an era where tabletop was bigger as well. Many devs and players from then were tabletop players (myself included, mind). In todays age, that's not so much true anymore.

You're wanting something that doesn't have the market or appeal it used to have anymore. So if you're not ok with the modern variants of such games, you are SOL in that regard. I think that you're not the type of audience that sparks much interest with game devs/publishers anymore.
If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.
Автор сообщения: p0mpous
If there wasnt the audience they wouldnt people remaking these games. Big companies also wouldnt falsely the the term RPG to try and sell their games.

The Shadowrun trilogy has enough roleplaying elements to fit the RPG genre as does Pillars of Eternity and every other game which gives you freedom to approach a situation like you would in a tabletop RPG. Obviously the companies who have the resources to make the kind of game you want are NOT INTERESTED in making one and you are downplaying the ones who WANT to make games which fit the RPG genre but lack the scale and scope you demand from them because they don't have the resources and manpower needed to make a world which has several DnD campaigns worth of content.
Отредактировано The nameless Gamer; 16 янв. 2024 г. в 5:20
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Все обсуждения > Форумы Steam > Steam Discussions > Подробности темы
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