Steam Discrimination or bad commercial decisions?

[Mcintosh Pro]

I’ll try to keep it short.

Steam region locked every single game for gifting in the country I live (Mexico), so during holidays I couldn’t gift games to my friends and family (US,Canada and Europe). This is both discriminative and a bad move. It’s a bad move, since I used to buy hundreds of games to gift during holidays (and I’m sure I wasn’t the only one in this region). It’s discriminative, since for some reason they believe people here need a lower price to be able to purchase their games. So… we can receive gifts but not gift ourselves?
So I would like for steam heads to reconsider. Why not just make the store go back to dollars like it was some months ago… charge the same price for them as the US and CAD… and we are all happy.

We don’t need a lower price.. I bought my games in normal pricing and nobody asked for that price reduction or help… it would be ok if only it wouldn’t actually mess with the BASIC functions of steam and take away the spirit of what the community likes about it.

So I’m sure that we are not the only ones with that problem. So here are 2 possible solutions:

1-Go back to a universal price in USD (or actual local exact equivalent) and charge the same amount to every single country. If u really want to give out discounts, average your prices so everyone gets benefited. So people won’t be paying 60euros for a 600 pesos game that should be 60 dollars. Equality over discrimination (exploiting the “rich” or giving advantages to the “poor” wtf)

2-Make it possible that we can choose the regional price of what we are buying. So we can gift it to anyone.. making us pay the “universally unlocked version price”. That way we can buy a “full unlocked copy” for the “full price” even if it’s different from the price of our region (we don’t mind paying more if it’s for a gift!!! Get it?)

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3-Give your solution.
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So the idea of this post is to get more ideas and in a way settle for one that we can really push steam to take. So give more ideas or develop these I’m giving please. This is a huge problem for me… I can’t even gift my kid presents from my account since he is in Canada… I want equality, I’m sure Steam doesn’t support discrimination and this was just a bad commercial decision without the intention to damage their customers.

Note: This doesn’t have to do with normal developer regional locks (so please refrain posting the concept that developers can choose the locks and areas since this doesn’t have to do anything with that). Please investigate this problem a bit before trying to explain your imaginary hypothesis about why it’s ok for us to be going through this problem. I’ll help you with a link… but its extends are much bigger (also check for the rupees problem). http://kotaku.com/you-cant-gift-steam-games-wherever-you-want-anymore-1672525767

[Start_Running]

Key point on Amazon... they don't base things on credit cards but there are places that certain products cannot be shipped to. Quite a few actually. IT's why I actually have to maintain a US PO box or have it sent to a relative in the US or get anything out of amazon since there are products listed is the US and Canadian stores that are not listed in my own regional AMazon. Of course these same products cannot be shipped out of the US by amazon. So while amazon doesn't block based oncredit card, they do however block based on a far more telling bit of data... the shipping address. Since their main business is in solid goods... this is pretty much easy. No matter where you;re ordering from the goods are going somewhere. Steam deals in digital goods. The fact is they have no real way of verifying where you as a person live beyond the billing information on your credit card.

Steam and Amazon are both online stores yes, but their core trading stock is different. CHickens and goat farmers are both livestock farmers but each have their own unique circumstances and problems. Heck there's a substantial difference in the logistics of farming Ducks vs Chickens. Not to say STeam couldn;t borrow a few ideas from Amazon... like say a more robust search engine. Valve seriously get to work on this.

And again you over look one of the points I made. Developers may actually not want their games available through steam in a certain region or country due to already established distribution agreements.

If the devlopers do that they risk being held for breach of contract by their partners. Steam then would be liable for negligence for allowing it to happen. Whether it's a gift or not, the effect is still the same. EVen before you take into account the grey market business model.

You may not be aware that breach of contract is a very serious thing and the penalties can run into the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Never mind the thousand sthe grey market can cost them. You know what.. you should do what I'v recommended others do. FInd a dev with a region locked game and ask them why it is region locked. FInd a dev that has differing prices for their game in different regions and ask them why. that is.

You'll get an answer and I'm sure you'd find it as thought provoking as I did. SOlutions don't occur when a problem is approached from one pov .The POV of all parties involved must be considered and in the end the solution that works for the most involved parties is the one that should be emplyed.

Even narrowing it down to 3 players. Two of the parties in this Valve and the Publishers deem the current action to be necessary. the consumer is the third party and while they may have concerns and issues they are outweighed by the concerns and issues of the other two parties.

[Mcintosh Pro]

Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:

The Idea:

• If you are going to fit someone a piece of software. You will still be limited by the game's regional availablity.
  
  
• Gifting is done at the time of purchase i.e The game cannot be gifted post purchase. This will mean you'll have to have the steam name of the recipient.
  
  
• When you purchase a game as a gift you will pay the Highest international retail price for the game as converted to your currency. So in other words. If you're buying a game to gift someone in a say Brazil you will pay as much as someone in say the VAT region. The price you pay will be the same price someone in the VAT regions would pay. With the addition of whatever local tax the recipient's region may impose. Which would mean you'd be paying more for it than you would yourself. You'd be paying the retail price with included tax of the most expensive region and then applying the recipient's local tax to that amount.
  
  
• WHen purchasing, sale discounts will be ignored. I.e you will pay full price regardless of what sale is going on.
  
  
• The recipient will be notified of the gift via email and be given the choice to accept or reject. If they accept the giver will be sent an email confirming that the person that accepted is the person they meant to send it to. Once confirmed. The process will be completed.

All that of course is based on the prime caveat that the game must be available in the recipients region. If it is not you will be notified of this prior to clicking the buy button, or rather the buy button will be disabled.

That would more or less be an idea that Valve, publishers and Trade authorities would agree with. Of course those with keen eyes have probably noted that the consumer is getting a big fork on this.

Well here you are giving some good ideas, thanks for starting out again this time constructively, but i wish u ponder this fact. As of now, if i want to buy a gift being it full price or on sale, i can just ask any of my Tier 1 friends to buy it for me, so i would pay them that game (as the tag of the regional amount which is supposed to be higher) and they will get it in their local place at their local price (basically nothing illegal here). Then they can just send it to me as a gift and since its an unlocked copy i ca get it but keep it in my inventory.. then i can bounce it to the final reciever. Basically its exploiting backwards... since you get access to a copy that is higher priced than its to you... up to now nothing to make exploiters feel attracted.

How about instead of creating more rules and limitations, it could be cooler if they just let me do that without the need of a friend. Lets just say... have a little button that can switch the region that you want to buy it from and get access to the eg. USA store... or the EU Store.. which ever valve feels comfortable with (and the devs). Once i get access to it i can purchase it there. Now that unlocked copy can be send with the already existing mechanism.. anywhere in the world. Using the bank exchange rate for any or these operations you avoid any losses to steam (as it was before and always had been). But this time im the one choosing to get a disccounted product or a not disccounted (tho unlocked) one.

So this could be applied to countries that have a lower price (poor contries) and countries that have higher prices (rich) don't get a "switch" to go to another store of the world. That way a person of UK can't go into the Mexican Store to get a lowe price, but the Mexican person can indeed go to the UK choosing to buy it "more expensive" (tho unlocked).

In this scenario, nobody looses and even some people will only buy from this "higer" priced store (if they want for themselves) just to have an obsession of not having a locked copy.

As for games that are region locked by the dev or are banned or something in a country, you just keep em region locked or what steam already does.. not even show them in the search or banners (by using your regional ip).Like it has always been and still ongoing.

As always, if you buy something that isn't available in the recipient's region, the store page will announce it in advance, like it has always been before and still ongoing.

PS. I mean apple does that, ebay does that even newegg and many other stores, just choose what store of what part of the world you want.. simple (don't give the option to the higher paying)...If i choose to pay more it will always the decision of the buyer.. and that way u don't get annoying restrictions about.. having to choose a destinatary from the moment of your purchases and stuff like that... I actually was never 100% sure why they even gave us a price cut.. just before they locked the zones i understood it, but believe me, buying games more expensive than your area isn't an attractive business for the grey market. The gifting mechanic works perfectly.. it just shouldn't be attractive as a business to amassers and exploiters.

To do this they just need to clone the US, EU, AU etc or any tier 1 stores and restrict them to the actual US,EU, AU etc. so the rest of the world has access to them but the tier 1 countries. Then just make a link to this store for the other tiers website or UI. Sorry i'm not the best at explaining tho, but i think this is a solution that requieres the least effort, creates the less problem and uses the most outgoing mechanisms. So an almost immediate deployment can be done... there can be other approaches (some tha even solve some other problems), but this requires the less change.

[Krieger]

the issue with using a switch etc is the extra coding needed for each 'store'

they could just slap down an 'over region' fee....

and a -unable to be sold over specified region-

now that has to be some easy coding, minimal effort?

eidt: though they already have us set by region anyway..

[Midnight Lost]

Bobisme님이 먼저 게시:

the issue with using a switch etc is the extra coding needed for each 'store'

they could just slap down an 'over region' fee....

and a -unable to be sold over specified region-

now that has to be some easy coding, minimal effort?

eidt: though they already have us set by region anyway..

I suggested some time ago that Valve implement a gift tax. Of course that wouldn't go over well with alot of people.

Another suggestion was while purchasing a gift, you select the intended recepitant of the gift. The price is adjusted for that regions currency. Discounts would be calculated in as well.

I think the second one would be a far better solution, and over all make everyone happy. Scammers won't be able to rip off Valve, and people from other countries can gift again.

[Grimaldus]

Here are some facts.

Just because you live in a rich country, doesn't mean you are automatically rich.
Just because you live in a poor country, doesn't mean you are automatically poor.

I know people who lives in Sweden that barely can put together for rent, and i know people
who lives in "poor" countries that got more money then i could dream of.

Treating someone based on where they come from and giving them advantages/disadvantages is discrimination, like denying someone living in the streets from eating at a restaurant.

Valve is discriminating the players living in "rich" countries because we have to pay more
per automatic because "we make more money", But not everyone makes more money.
They say "ohh those poor 3rd world players".. and give them games at 40% lesser cost,
while they assume they got no income or poor salery.


Here is my solution to the problem.

EVERYONE says the SAME PRICE for all games, no matter where you live, no matter what
your current currency-value is - EVERYONE pays 40$ for a 40$ game..

If you live in Sweden and you buy a 40$ game, you pay 333 SeK.
If you live in Russia , you pay 2389 Rubel.
If you live in UK, you pay 26 Pund Sterling.
And if you pay in Euro, its 36 € for a 40$ game..

EVERYONE pays the same amount of money for THE SAME GAME..

Just because "richard" lives in London and works, it doesn't mean he is wealthy and can
pay 40% more then someone who lives in Spain or Argentina..

This is a simple AND JUSTE solution that doesn't discriminate anyone, because no matter
where you live, you always pay the same amount for the same game.

[Black Blade]

Dreez님이 먼저 게시:

Here are some facts.

Just because you live in a rich country, doesn't mean you are automatically rich.
Just because you live in a poor country, doesn't mean you are automatically poor.

I know people who lives in Sweden that barely can put together for rent, and i know people
who lives in "poor" countries that got more money then i could dream of.

Treating someone based on where they come from and giving them advantages/disadvantages is discrimination, like denying someone living in the streets from eating at a restaurant.

Valve is discriminating the players living in "rich" countries because we have to pay more
per automatic because "we make more money", But not everyone makes more money.
They say "ohh those poor 3rd world players".. and give them games at 40% lesser cost,
while they assume they got no income or poor salery.


Here is my solution to the problem.

EVERYONE says the SAME PRICE for all games, no matter where you live, no matter what
your current currency-value is - EVERYONE pays 40$ for a 40$ game..

If you live in Sweden and you buy a 40$ game, you pay 333 SeK.
If you live in Russia , you pay 2389 Rubel.
If you live in UK, you pay 26 Pund Sterling.
And if you pay in Euro, its 36 € for a 40$ game..

EVERYONE pays the same amount of money for THE SAME GAME..

Just because "richard" lives in London and works, it doesn't mean he is wealthy and can
pay 40% more then someone who lives in Spain or Argentina..

This is a simple AND JUSTE solution that doesn't discriminate anyone, because no matter
where you live, you always pay the same amount for the same game.

And were do you live? do you pay more or less?
That is what i like to ask, as it sound like you want to do discrimination as well, as you will block some players from buying any games, A.K.A. the users that cant pay the high prices

You basically sound to me like you say, lets assume that every one can afford the price of any other country, that that will be not fair as well
and also as was stated before, Valve dose not set prices but the publisher dose, that is why its not 100$ relevant to here, unlike something like asking for the gifting system that is under Valve

[Grimaldus]

I live in Sweden and sometimes i pay 80$for a 50$game.. and im not rich, its just my passion
to play games at times, i got other passions to.
Another friend of mine that makes ALOT more then i do, pays LESS per game, while he/she
lives in the states.. HOW is that not discriminating?.

Everyone should pay the SAME PRICE for the SAME game..

wouldn't that be juste?, truly?.

[Charlie]

Matthew Sobol's Daemon님이 먼저 게시:

I still think the solution to this problem would simply be to let people pay the other country's bloated prices. Even if the publisher are terrified of their "secret" being let out *rolls eyes*.

Yeah, only reason they haven't done that is because if they did people would go crazy once they realize just how much more expensive games are outside the US. So annoying when they just change the Dollar sign to a Pound or Euro, at least provide some type of currency conversion.

[Black Blade]

Dreez님이 먼저 게시:

I live in Sweden and sometimes i pay 80$for a 50$game.. and im not rich, its just my passion
to play games at times, i got other passions to.
Another friend of mine that makes ALOT more then i do, pays LESS per game, while he/she
lives in the states.. HOW is that not discriminating?.

Everyone should pay the SAME PRICE for the SAME game..

wouldn't that be juste?, truly?.

No it will not
In some countries food is cheaper, and cost of living is as well (now i am going to give a fake example, as i do not have the numbers with me at these time)
Lets say your contry minimum salary is 5$ a day, the cost of living over all is 3$, there for you have 2$ left
When in the other country, the minimum lets say is 1$ cost of living is 0.30$, then the guy is left with 0.70 after that
Now for now lets say the USA price for a game is 10$

The price for you is 14$, and for the other guy it will be 7$
now you need to work 7 days to get the amount to pay for that game
He needs to work 7 days as well to get the same game

Now lets say we do what you say then and all prices are by the USA then:
you need to work 5 days to get the game
He needs to work 14.29 days to get the same game

Is that fair you think for them? and for you as well?
And let me ask also these, will it be then fair for you, if all prices will go by the highest priced country? will that also be fair in your eyes?
And last, are you really looking for justice or for better prices for your self? ignoring any one else?

And last as before its not really all the way up to Valve, they can maybe be asked to make there default price better set, but the prices are set by the publisher in the end

[Midnight Lost]

Seeing as currency between different countries seems to be the issue, why doesn't valve create it own currency specifically for Steam. Call it Steam Coins or something, similiar to how some MMOs have their cash shop currency. SWTOR has Cartel Coins, EQ with their Station Cash and such.

Since it seems to be the preferred currency of Steam, the Steam Coins would value would be based around the US Dollar. While the currency itself can not be traded to friends direction (Maybe have a set up so that when purchasing said currency it can be gifted, but not after).

This is something that could be saved up over tiem to make big purchases and such.

Just tossing out ideas, snowball off of it if you wish.

[Charlie]

Midnight Lost님이 먼저 게시:

Seeing as currency between different countries seems to be the issue, why doesn't valve create it own currency specifically for Steam. Call it Steam Coins or something, similiar to how some MMOs have their cash shop currency. SWTOR has Cartel Coins, EQ with their Station Cash and such.

Since it seems to be the preferred currency of Steam, the Steam Coins would value would be based around the US Dollar. While the currency itself can not be traded to friends direction (Maybe have a set up so that when purchasing said currency it can be gifted, but not after).

This is something that could be saved up over tiem to make big purchases and such.

Just tossing out ideas, snowball off of it if you wish.

I said the same thing, why not take GEMS one step further and make it so you can buy stuff with them (like MS points) apparently that wouldn't solve the issue but I fail to see how.

[#*]

I agree.

[Midnight Lost]

Matthew Sobol's Daemon님이 먼저 게시:

Midnight Lost님이 먼저 게시:

Seeing as currency between different countries seems to be the issue, why doesn't valve create it own currency specifically for Steam. Call it Steam Coins or something, similiar to how some MMOs have their cash shop currency. SWTOR has Cartel Coins, EQ with their Station Cash and such.

Since it seems to be the preferred currency of Steam, the Steam Coins would value would be based around the US Dollar. While the currency itself can not be traded to friends direction (Maybe have a set up so that when purchasing said currency it can be gifted, but not after).

This is something that could be saved up over tiem to make big purchases and such.

Just tossing out ideas, snowball off of it if you wish.

That would not change anything. Publishers will bloat up the prices in certain regions, regardless of whether you're paying in real currency or "Steam Pixie Points".

The "Steam Currency" wasn't suggested to prevent price inflation from the developers, That will happen regardless. It was proposed to open up a way from the community to continue to gift games without Valve losing money from scammers.

Granted, not a perfect solution.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

but if steam had it's own currency then there would be no more need of any region price and only one fixed price reguardless of where you live ... meaning that only valve would have control of how much that virtual currency worth in the different country , the devlopers could only set the initial steam dollars price and every one would be buying it with these steam dollars ... steam dollars that valve would convert themselve from real money.

I think it's more because it's would make things more complex rather then it's could not fix anything that we might not see any 'steam dollars' or something of the like.

Matthew Sobol's Daemon님이 먼저 게시:

Midnight Lost님이 먼저 게시:

Seeing as currency between different countries seems to be the issue, why doesn't valve create it own currency specifically for Steam. Call it Steam Coins or something, similiar to how some MMOs have their cash shop currency. SWTOR has Cartel Coins, EQ with their Station Cash and such.

Since it seems to be the preferred currency of Steam, the Steam Coins would value would be based around the US Dollar. While the currency itself can not be traded to friends direction (Maybe have a set up so that when purchasing said currency it can be gifted, but not after).

This is something that could be saved up over tiem to make big purchases and such.

Just tossing out ideas, snowball off of it if you wish.

That would not change anything. Publishers will bloat up the prices in certain regions, regardless of whether you're paying in real currency or "Steam Pixie Points".

[Charlie]

node357님이 먼저 게시:

this is the most insulting and dismissive thing i've read yet that's been said on Valve's behalf. we really are just cash cattle, aren't we? please continue to make statements like this for all to see. it benefits Valve's few, struggling competitors. at least those competitors show some semblance of ackowledging their customers beyond the type of currency they use.

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