New Standards for Games

[Fiercephoenix]

When steam started it was great. It gave space for many titles that would have never seen daylight. Now Devs have taken advantage of Steam making what I call Chop Shop games and DLC farming for $$$. The standards for making a game is just above trash. When a soundtrack becomes a DLC and is the only thing added to a "bundle" your in trouble. There are titles with glaring problems to the point almost unplayable and Steam still allows the game on the platform. The cash must flow apparently. Because your name STEAM is attached to these titles people assume a level of quality and standards. This is NOT the case. Anyone can make a game and slap a price tag on it and Steam doesn't care about the quality. Many of the so called "Devs" rely on modders exclusively to fix problems. Its a sad time for STEAM because with no checks and balances the name means very little. Games will have issues and usually most studios will eventually get to fixing it. With that said there are some who have no intentions of ever fixing anything and just making bank.

Intentionally selling a product knowing it has flaws that you know you will never fix and not disclosing this information is criminal. STEAM is attached to these titles. Think about that. Valve needs to redefine the platform and create some consequences. I mean Valve ultimately takes $$$ for these titles and thus they are just as guilty in the eyes of the law.

I do not care if you are indie or triple A. You need to either pull the title or fix it. The main thing is most studios post a "road map" that is unrealistic and doesn't address the fixing process. One big thing is Valve needs to enforce game fixes and disclosure. When an indie person says "hey the game has these issues we are working on them this is when we hope to have it done." that goes a long way. If Valve removed the titles that are just horribly bugged and riddled with issues it would send a strong message. You can still advertise and everything just the title would not be up for sell until the main issues were fixed.

An Easy Out for Valve:

Just allow players to trade-in titles that are no longer supported by Dev teams. Titles that do not fit monitors properly because they are just too old. Right now players are pretty much stuck. It is a bad situation for the consumer and shifts all the power to Valve and Developers who consequentially also get paid. It seems like a really good system to milk the consumers with severely below par games.

With all this negativity ( I am aware) there are some powerful titles that started out small and are blockbusters. Titles like Subnautica, Satisfactory, even Founders Fortune. I love indie games and love supporting them, but the few bad apples are multiplying and quality control has to be a priority.

[Kargor]

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

Just allow players to trade-in titles that are no longer supported by Dev teams. Titles that do not fit monitors properly because they are just too old.

Sure thing. Valve is buying back all your old games... and what are they going to do with them?

[Fiercephoenix]

Originally posted by Kargor:

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

Just allow players to trade-in titles that are no longer supported by Dev teams. Titles that do not fit monitors properly because they are just too old.

Sure thing. Valve is buying back all your old games... and what are they going to do with them?

Trade-in is NOT buyback. They can not buyback something they do not own. Thus a Trade-in or even Trade-up license system much like Microsoft has used for ages. Actually Valve already adjust licences when you buy a bundle and already have a few DLC the system detects this so you are not over charged or charged twice. So the basics for a system like this is already in place. It would cost them nothing.

[SLAYER187]

You just described all console stores as well, and power? what power to valve and developers? I mean if there was a power then it is we who have it, do not buy the broken games. I always read the reviewers for one thing only, the one's who are having multiple issues with said games which tells me be very wary or do not buy. Although i do agree with you in the poor manner alot of games are handled certainly not like the older days.

[AmsterdamHeavy]

The refund policy covers all of these complaints.

Also, the notion of quality assurance with, especially, games is some newfangled nonsense. I cant even list all of the games I bought out of a box with no refund options that were bugged to hell.

Developers are NOT obligated to update their games in perpetuity and never have been. Where would you get such an outlandish idea?

[Knee]

What if people like playing those games you've listed in spite of the flaws they have?

[Fiercephoenix]

Originally posted by Knee:

What if people like playing those games you've listed in spite of the flaws they have?

Awesome! Keep playing! I will always play and keep Banished because the Dev guy was open honest and from day 1 said this was his one and only game and he is done.

[Fiercephoenix]

I do not expect a developer to always update a game forever that is unrealistic. What I do want is more transparency. I want Valve to weed out the trash. The refund policy is not that great it needs to be expanded. The argument is that there needs to be a standard and that standard enforced on the Dev side. The Avg retail return or exchange policy in the US is 30/60 days. I am asking for a base of 24 hrs instead of 2 hrs. The rules for the most part are already there they just need to be enforced and tweaked. I want Valve to be more aggressive. For years now Valve have been asleep at the wheel.

[wesnef]

You could never do that with old games, why should you be able to do it now?

(I mean, I have lots of old disc/CD/DVD games from many systems ago. They don't run correctly on current hardware. The devs are long gone. Should those be able to "trade in", too? To who?
Software has never come with some guarantee that it will work forever.)

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

I am asking for a base of 24 hrs instead of 2 hrs.

Do you know how many games can be 'finished' in 24 hours?

[ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ]

Originally posted by Knee:

What if people like playing those games you've listed in spite of the flaws they have?

That's basically what happens. All these games with cash grab Editions/DLC/flaws won't stop being a thing because the sheep/whales keep buying them (buying all the different overpriced Editions/Games, all the DLC, flawed games etc) look at Silent Hill 2 Remake, lots of people have issues with its performance but it isn't gonna get fixed.

Just like bad movies and shows, there will always be an audience for that crap. Look at all the cash grab Number 2 movies (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Not The Real Joker 2, all the CGI/Live action adapted movies like Mufasa, Little Mermaid, Snow White etc)

Only way to stop it, is for them to not get any money/views.

[Fiercephoenix]

Originally posted by ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ:

Originally posted by Knee:

What if people like playing those games you've listed in spite of the flaws they have?

That's basically what happens. All these games with cash grab Editions/DLC won't stop being a thing because the sheep/whales keep buying them (buying all the different overpriced Editions/Games, all the DLC etc)

Just like bad movies and shows, there will always be an audience for that crap. Look at all the cash grab Number 2 movies (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Not The Real Joker 2, all the CGI/Live action adapted movies like Mufasa, Little Mermaid, Snow White etc)

Only way to stop it, is for them to not get any money/views.

I completely understand your point.

I want to reword this to help people better understand.

When you go to used car lot they have stickers: As is, Limited Warranty, Warranty. Steam could use this system. This would boost transparency. I might not want to buy a game with no dedicated development team and i should have that choice. Maybe this game has been out a while and has limited support. Sometimes Development teams get "acquired" and they have no choice. XYZ studios acquired by 675 Studio will no longer support [titles] Dec 31, 1969 @ 4:00pm[buy] just a pop up reminder this game has no dedicated dev team do you wish to continue? The dev team will no longer support this game do you still wish to buy? That is all I am asking for.

[nullable]

You have the choice, it's called do your own research if niche details are that important to you.

If it's not worth your time to do any research, shifting the responsibility to Valve doesn't make it a good idea or a trivial thing for Valve to do.

I know, why don't you shop for PC games on any of the other stores that do this? What, no one does? I wonder why that is....

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

Originally posted by ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ:

That's basically what happens. All these games with cash grab Editions/DLC won't stop being a thing because the sheep/whales keep buying them (buying all the different overpriced Editions/Games, all the DLC etc)

Just like bad movies and shows, there will always be an audience for that crap. Look at all the cash grab Number 2 movies (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Not The Real Joker 2, all the CGI/Live action adapted movies like Mufasa, Little Mermaid, Snow White etc)

Only way to stop it, is for them to not get any money/views.

I completely understand your point.

I want to reword this to help people better understand.

When you go to used car lot they have stickers: As is, Limited Warranty, Warranty. Steam could use this system. This would boost transparency. I might not want to buy a game with no dedicated development team and i should have that choice. Maybe this game has been out a while and has limited support. Sometimes Development teams get "acquired" and they have no choice. XYZ studios acquired by 675 Studio will no longer support [titles] Dec 31, 1969 @ 4:00pm[buy] just a pop up reminder this game has no dedicated dev team do you wish to continue? The dev team will no longer support this game Dec 31, 1969 @ 4:00pm[/quote]
Sadly they can't do this.

There's laws about business and contracts and this would be a gross overreach. Not only that but utterly irrelevant too.

I get it - things can be dodgy, but there's plenty of tools out there to help you buy games.

Consider this - I'm in my fifties. I buy about 300 games every year and keep them across loads of platforms. Despite this I haven't bought a single game where I didn't know EXACTLY what I was getting into for well over 25 years.

How can I do that? Easy - research. It's so easy to go to sites like Metacritic, opencritic, gamefaqs and others to find global lists of every games and search. You can then scribble down all that interest you, and then search reviews, and videos and a whole host of information that quickly and easily advise you of what you're getting.

It's honestly dead simple.

[Knee]

Originally posted by ꉔꏂ꒐꒒ꇙ:

Originally posted by Knee:

What if people like playing those games you've listed in spite of the flaws they have?

That's basically what happens. All these games with cash grab Editions/DLC/flaws won't stop being a thing because the sheep/whales keep buying them (buying all the different overpriced Editions/Games, all the DLC, flawed games etc) look at Silent Hill 2 Remake, lots of people have issues with its performance but it isn't gonna get fixed.

Just like bad movies and shows, there will always be an audience for that crap. Look at all the cash grab Number 2 movies (Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Not The Real Joker 2, all the CGI/Live action adapted movies like Mufasa, Little Mermaid, Snow White etc)

Only way to stop it, is for them to not get any money/views.

Why does it need to be stopped? No one is forcing you to play games you don't like.

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

Originally posted by Kargor:

Sure thing. Valve is buying back all your old games... and what are they going to do with them?

Trade-in is NOT buyback. They can not buyback something they do not own. Thus a Trade-in or even Trade-up license system much like Microsoft has used for ages. Actually Valve already adjust licences when you buy a bundle and already have a few DLC the system detects this so you are not over charged or charged twice. So the basics for a system like this is already in place. It would cost them nothing.

You want the store to pay you for a product you consumed and then also pay the people supplying them for the product they're replacing it with for you? How does the store make money?

[Justice]

Originally posted by wesnef:

Originally posted by Fiercephoenix:

I am asking for a base of 24 hrs instead of 2 hrs.

Do you know how many games can be 'finished' in 24 hours?

The bigger problem is refund exparation date addition. Where you lose your right to refund a game after 2 weeks after purchase. Doesn't matter if 2h in game have reached, doesn't matter if you even instaled a game.