Stop Censoring Our Games and not telling us!!!

[iamelocin]

I have to search my visual novels on google to make sure they don't contain H-scenes or any other scenes that is subject to be cut out, before purchasing it on steam. I do not support censorship, I see nothing wrong with buying censored games for those who are into that but I want a choice in the games I buy and I would like to know that a game I purchase had scenes that were cut out so I won't have to use my time to search for patches to make the game the way that it should have been released. Why doesn't steam have an adults only section? Why doesn't steam label all visual novels that are censored as All Ages Version, Teen Version Mature Version so people like me know not to buy the game from steam because we would then be aware that a uncensored version exists.I want to spend my money on a game as it was created to be not some watered down version for teenagers. Let us adults have our own section so we can play the games we enjoy without having to do the extra labor!!!

[Discussions_Acc]

Originalmente postado por Fang:

It's part of their business model and many people, including parents and many other adults would love to tear steam apart as soon as they started selling uncensored games.

I don't even want to imagine what would happen if Valve started selling ultra violent content. The outrage would be huge. Good thing Manhunt, Postal, Hatred, Hotline Miami and Mortal Kombat aren't on Steam.

Originalmente postado por Fang:

It's part of the gaming culture, nudity is not accepted in gaming

Who decides that? You?
What about The Witcher, Rust, Mafia 2, South Park, Outlast and GTA V?
Not to mention the ton of games with skimpy outfits or "off camera" nudity..

Originalmente postado por CharlestONE:

They may not want to sell it because of the hassle of verifying a user's age and conforming to additional laws in different countries.

And why would they want/need to? They already sell everything from E to AO without any verification. Even in countries that actually require it.

Originalmente postado por gallifrey:

Many video games showing violence to the person are banned in Germany.

Many? Try again with "few" or "some". Your perception of that matter must be from around 2000.

[HLCinSC]

Originalmente postado por Discussions_Acc:

Originalmente postado por CharlestONE:

They may not want to sell it because of the hassle of verifying a user's age and conforming to additional laws in different countries.

And why would they want/need to? They already sell everything from E to AO without any verification. Even in countries that actually require it.

What games do they have that are AO besides hatred? Violence tends to be more tolerated from a legal stand point, but certain levels of nudity or sexual content fall under pornography laws which have a whole host of rules and regulations in many countries that other games do not.

[Start_Running]

You know I think the OP needs to check a dictionary, like many posters here. If a developer alters their work to fit within certain standards.... that is not Censorship. That's artistic license.

Censorship is where someone other than the legal owner (creator/distributor) usually a government agency edits the work to fit within standards.

As said, many developers do this willingly, because they want their products sold to as many people as possible, in as many markets. NOw one way is to create version for each region but then that makes patching and such nightmarishly complicated so what most do is just make one version the suits the most.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originalmente postado por Fang:

It's part of their terms of service and their cooperation with the ESRB. Noting that, it's not exactly part of their group of games. Although they do sell games that are censored, it's to cater to a wider audience than just those people who want the nakedness and sexuality, which I'm one of those who doesn't.

It's part of their business model and many people, including parents and many other adults would love to tear steam apart as soon as they started selling uncensored games. It's part of the gaming culture, nudity is not accepted in gaming, because it is something you can get elsewhere instead.

Basically, you are saying that because you do not want nudity/sex in a video game, that no one should have it. Steam caters to a wide audience now. Catering to those that might like a sexually-heavy game widens potential users. It does not narrow them.

There is no gaming culture that rejects nudity. For every person you show me that doesn't want nudity in video games, I will show you two people that do. You've got it wrong. Gaming culture hates censorship.

Of course you could prove me wrong. Show me a study. Show me some stastics. I can prove my point. Many best selling games have featured nudity and/or sex. Here's just a few:
The Sims 1-3 (full nudity and sex options with mods)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (sex possible with offical mod on PC version)
God of War

Lastly I'd like to address your "for the children" argument. The world is for adults. Let's move people in that direction. Let's not try to protect people from everything. I see nudity every day when I shower. Parents should be responsible for the content they purchase and allow their child to consume. It isn't my responsibility, nor Steam, nor anyone else. You cannot restrict questionable material simply because some parents are neglectful.

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

You know I think the OP needs to check a dictionary, like many posters here. If a developer alters their work to fit within certain standards.... that is not Censorship. That's artistic license.

cen·sor·ship /ˈsensərˌSHip/

noun
- the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.

If Steam disallows a game due to content, they are "suppressing unacceptable parts". This is restriction. This is censorship.

Artistic license is a term, used in reworking of pre-existing work made by an artist in the name of art. This is freedom from censorship.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

Originalmente postado por Fang:

It's part of their terms of service and their cooperation with the ESRB. Noting that, it's not exactly part of their group of games. Although they do sell games that are censored, it's to cater to a wider audience than just those people who want the nakedness and sexuality, which I'm one of those who doesn't.

It's part of their business model and many people, including parents and many other adults would love to tear steam apart as soon as they started selling uncensored games. It's part of the gaming culture, nudity is not accepted in gaming, because it is something you can get elsewhere instead.

Basically, you are saying that because you do not want nudity/sex in a video game, that no one should have it. Steam caters to a wide audience now. Catering to those that might like a sexually-heavy game widens potential users. It does not narrow them.

There is no gaming culture that rejects nudity. For every person you show me that doesn't want nudity in video games, I will show you two people that do. You've got it wrong. Gaming culture hates censorship.

But there are many jurisdictions where such material is considered pornography and thusly either illegal to sell, and in some cases possess.. Heck the irony is Japan is remarkably prude about certain things. I mean you may notice you rarely see a character sporting under arm hair. male or female.

Of course you could prove me wrong. Show me a study. Show me some stastics. I can prove my point. Many best selling games have featured nudity and/or sex. Here's just a few:
The Sims 1-3 (full nudity and sex options with mods)[/quote[
Mods are user created, thusly are not controlled. It's like you buying a painting and drawing a ♥♥♥♥ on it. It's different from the developer giving it to you uncensored.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (sex possible with offical mod on PC version)

Again a mod, and R* caught a lot of flack for that even so. There were class action lawsuits involved there and it led to the game being banned and removed from several regions.

God of War

Which has the appropriate rating.

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

You know I think the OP needs to check a dictionary, like many posters here. If a developer alters their work to fit within certain standards.... that is not Censorship. That's artistic license.

cen·sor·ship /ˈsensərˌSHip/

noun
- the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.

If Steam disallows a game due to content, they are "suppressing unacceptable parts". This is restriction. This is censorship.

No That is retailer discression. Suppressing means them directly removing it. I as a retailer can choose not to sell a product with an R-rating. that's not censorship. That's a basic rigfht of human choice. Same way I can choose who I let into my house. Steam has basically said. If the rating is abov a certain threshold we will not carry it. That is not censorship.

If the developer then chooses to alter the work to be acceptable to steam. That is not censorship. That's again basic human choice.

Censorship is not a store refusing to carry a book with nidie pictures. Censorship is not teh books publisher editing out the niddie pictures so the store will sell it. Censorship is the stores owner gtaking a black marker to every copy of the book in his store , blacking out the nude pictures.,

Artistic license is a term, used in reworking of pre-existing work made by an artist in the name of art. This is freedom from censorship.

If the artist chooses to chainge his work. That is artistic license. The why they choose is irrelevant. It's done by their hand and by their will.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

Basically, you are saying that because you do not want nudity/sex in a video game, that no one should have it. Steam caters to a wide audience now. Catering to those that might like a sexually-heavy game widens potential users. It does not narrow them.

Valve still has to follow laws of many countries. All of them have some law or regulation of adult material.

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

There is no gaming culture that rejects nudity. For every person you show me that doesn't want nudity in video games, I will show you two people that do. You've got it wrong. Gaming culture hates censorship.

You are making up statistics yourself now. Show me one who is fine with it, I'll show you three who are not. Feel free to link to a study that proves me wrong on this.

Yes, there are gamers aginst such games as several posts in this thread shows. To claim otherwise is to ignore the evidence of that fact. I don't ignore that there are people who want it, but if they want it, they can get it from those sites that specificaly sell it and are better set up to handle the laws and restrictions around it.

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

Of course you could prove me wrong. Show me a study. Show me some stastics. I can prove my point. Many best selling games have featured nudity and/or sex. Here's just a few:
The Sims 1-3 (full nudity and sex options with mods)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (sex possible with offical mod on PC version)
God of War

Sims 1-3, as you said, required mods. Those were not officialy in the game as the game was made for them to be censored.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. The "Hot coffee mod"[en.wikipedia.org] wan't officialy in the game. They had made it, then broke it at a latter date. There is not official patch to get it back, only a user made one.

God of War showed nudity, not graphic sex. There is a big diffrence there.

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

Lastly I'd like to address your "for the children" argument. The world is for adults. Let's move people in that direction. Let's not try to protect people from everything. I see nudity every day when I shower. Parents should be responsible for the content they purchase and allow their child to consume. It isn't my responsibility, nor Steam, nor anyone else. You cannot restrict questionable material simply because some parents are neglectful.

The world is for people, not just adults. Children have to live in it to and they need protection since they don't have as wide of an understanding as adults do. Protecting them from harm, both physical and phcological, is a responsibility of society. Society may not always agree on that those are defined as, but things tend to balance out.

Patents can only do so much. You can't put the burden entirely on them. The ones selling it also have to take responsibility. It isn't as simple as pointing a finger at one person and saying "It is your fault they turned out like this!" where there are far more influences in the childs life then just the parents.

And yes, it is Steam's responsibility as they have to follow laws. It is your for the same reason, and on Steam you agreed the the SSA so you are part of it here too. And yes, such material can and will be restricted, reguardless of what those who are gainst it have to say. Not just because of laws, but society as well.

Originalmente postado por Lando Calrissian:

cen·sor·ship /ˈsensərˌSHip/

noun
- the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts.

If Steam disallows a game due to content, they are "suppressing unacceptable parts". This is restriction. This is censorship.

Artistic license is a term, used in reworking of pre-existing work made by an artist in the name of art. This is freedom from censorship.

Try using google to find the version you want. There is no requirement that you buy the version on Steam. You are free to buy the other versions elsewhere, so there is no reason to complain about it.

Valve's house, Valve's rules, same with your parents. If they didn't want you watching something, then you were not allowed to do so as it was their house and their rules.

[Preacher]

Steam censors their games? When did this happen? This explains all of the boring non-violent scenes.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originalmente postado por 7491Blackout:

Steam censors their games? When did this happen? This explains all of the boring non-violent scenes.

No, the developers choose what is included in their games. As Steam is an international distributor, the developers have to follow the laws of many countries, so they may remove parts from their games in order to do so. That has been going on long before Valve/Steam came about. Developers would remove some aspects in order to qualify for a specific rating in their games.

The issue in the thread isn't even about violence, but other aspects in games.

[Preacher]

Originalmente postado por Spawn of Totoro:

Originalmente postado por 7491Blackout:

Steam censors their games? When did this happen? This explains all of the boring non-violent scenes.

No, the developers choose what is included in their games. As Steam is an international distributor, the developers have to follow the laws of many countries, so they may remove parts from their games in order to do so. That has been going on long before Valve/Steam came about. Developers would remove some aspects in order to qualify for a specific rating in their games.

The issue in the thread isn't even about violence, but other aspects in games.

How the heck is violence illegal in other countries?

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originalmente postado por 7491Blackout:

How the heck is violence illegal in other countries?

Like I said, the thread isn't realy about the violence in the games, but more of the sexual content.

However, various countries ban the sale of some games if it exceeds a certain rating. Some ban specific kinds of violence or specific levels of it.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por 7491Blackout:

Originalmente postado por Spawn of Totoro:

No, the developers choose what is included in their games. As Steam is an international distributor, the developers have to follow the laws of many countries, so they may remove parts from their games in order to do so. That has been going on long before Valve/Steam came about. Developers would remove some aspects in order to qualify for a specific rating in their games.

The issue in the thread isn't even about violence, but other aspects in games.

How the heck is violence illegal in other countries?

Actually there is quite a bit of censorship on vioilence in many countries. For some european countries for example Halo was censored by making everyone.. robots rather than people in power armour.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

Originalmente postado por 7491Blackout:

How the heck is violence illegal in other countries?

Actually there is quite a bit of censorship on vioilence in many countries. For some european countries for example Halo was censored by making everyone.. robots rather than people in power armour.

Yep. Just like some required Mortal Kombat to have green blood instead of red before it was allowed to be sold.

[Tux]

Originalmente postado por dblakewood26:

...

my point exactly when it comes to Early Access games.

I would rather know about the bad ones rather than having Gabe Newell decide for me what to see or not see

[DanTheKraut]

Originalmente postado por gallifrey:

There are also problems with legality between jurisdictions. Many video games showing violence to the person are banned in Germany.

Nope they are not. Indexed does not mean banned as the game can still be sold to adults also commericals are allowed but restricted to places minors don't have access and even in the rare case a game get seized by a court it is not banned as import, buying and owning is still allowed also the selling of seized games is heavily restricted in Germany but they are not banned (sounds strange but that is the law).

Some Publisher refuse to sell unrated, indexed or seized games via Steam and others even block german Steam customers from playing their legally bought game as example Square Enix blocks the installation and start of Sleeping Dogs: Definitive Edition and some other games but you can legally buy those games in Germany... for console of course.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por DanTheKraut:

Originalmente postado por gallifrey:

There are also problems with legality between jurisdictions. Many video games showing violence to the person are banned in Germany.

Nope they are not. Indexed does not mean banned as the game can still be sold to adults also commericals are allowed but restricted to places minors don't have access and even in the rare case a game get seized by a court it is not banned as import, buying and owning is still allowed also the selling of seized games is heavily restricted in Germany but they are not banned (sounds strange but that is the law).

Uhm yes they are sweeitie. CHina is actually very, very, famous for this.