Refund Statistics

[Jase]

Does anyone know if there is up-to-date information/statistics on customers using the Steam refund capability. I am curious to see how many people are using it and the reason they provide as to why they want a refund. The only information I could find was from June. One article was about Indie developers claiming the refund policy is being abused, and the other - to no one's surprise I'm sure - was about Arkham Knight. I'm hoping for something a little more current and that includes information about refunds for all games rather than one or two.

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

I can see the Indie Developers side of it.

A lot of them don't have the resources to quickly and efficiently develop a game in what the youths timeframe of attention seems to be.

I always felt as though Early Access was to give small time developers a shot, to help with their funding, against the big guys. However, it seems as though it's become a rough place for even "basement developers" to have their game because of the unrealistic expectations of the general population.



Anyway, I agree. I'd like to see some stats on this subject.

[Spawn of Totoro]

That is something that is not considered public informaion.

You may find a few developers willing to tell people what the statistics for their own games are, but Valve will not disclose other developers statistics, nor such number for Steam it's self. They all have a right to their privacy on such matters.

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

That is something that is not considered public informaion.

You may find a few developers willing to tell people what the statistics for their own games are, but Valve will not disclose other developers statistics, nor such number for Steam it's self. They all have a right to their privacy on such matters.

I think I'm less interested in the financial aspect and more interested in what absurd reasons the majority of people are requesting refunds for. Not that they don't have a right to ask, I just see an awful lot of silly complaints.

Just as developers have the right to privacy, I think consumers also have the right to know why or how many people refunded a product. It's a double edged sword.

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

I think I'm less interested in the financial aspect and more interested in what absurd reasons the majority of people are requesting refunds for. Not that they don't have a right to ask, I just see an awful lot of silly complaints.

Just as developers have the right to privacy, I think consumers also have the right to know why or how many people refunded a product. It's a double edged sword.

No, people don't have a right to know those numbers. All a customer needs to know can be found by reading reviews. The statistics are just numbers and the selections for the reason is limited and most likely, very inaccurate.

Customers have a right to share their opinions with eachother, just as they are free not to share them. That is what the review system is for and why it exists, as well as the forums.

If there was such a right, then shouldn't the developer be allowed access to our bank statements before selling us a game, to make sure we won't waste their time refunding it?

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

I think I'm less interested in the financial aspect and more interested in what absurd reasons the majority of people are requesting refunds for. Not that they don't have a right to ask, I just see an awful lot of silly complaints.

Just as developers have the right to privacy, I think consumers also have the right to know why or how many people refunded a product. It's a double edged sword.

No, people don't have a right to know those numbers. All a customer needs to know can be found by reading reviews. The statistics are just numbers and the selections for the reason is limited and most likely, very inaccurate.

Customers have a right to share their opinions with eachother, just as they are free not to share them. That is what the review system is for and why it exists, as well as the forums.

If there was such a right, then shouldn't the developer be allowed access to our bank statements before selling us a game, to make sure we won't waste their time refunding it?

Like I said, I'm more interested reasoning statistics and less in the financial statistics. I get your point and halfway agree. Hence, a double edged sword.

[Linerax]

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

That is something that is not considered public informaion.

You may find a few developers willing to tell people what the statistics for their own games are, but Valve will not disclose other developers statistics, nor such number for Steam it's self. They all have a right to their privacy on such matters.

I think I'm less interested in the financial aspect and more interested in what absurd reasons the majority of people are requesting refunds for. Not that they don't have a right to ask, I just see an awful lot of silly complaints.

Just as developers have the right to privacy, I think consumers also have the right to know why or how many people refunded a product. It's a double edged sword.

A double edged sword indeed. I think the refund policy should have its own section of rules for indie developers to compensate the indie developers' lack of available resources that other well developed studios have with ease. That doesn't mean indie developers can still have a free ride. I want to see games like Bastion and Super Meat Boy produced, not some sort of rubbish that will cause me to smash my head against a thousand desks(hence Day One: Garry's Incident).

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

引用自 Linerax：

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

I think I'm less interested in the financial aspect and more interested in what absurd reasons the majority of people are requesting refunds for. Not that they don't have a right to ask, I just see an awful lot of silly complaints.

Just as developers have the right to privacy, I think consumers also have the right to know why or how many people refunded a product. It's a double edged sword.

A double edged sword indeed. I think the refund policy should have its own section of rules for indie developers to compensate the indie developers' lack of available resources that other well developed studios have with ease. That doesn't mean indie developers can still have a free ride. I want to see games like Bastion and Super Meat Boy produced, not some sort of rubbish that will cause me to smash my head against a thousand desks(hence Day One: Garry's Incident).

Oh no no, accountability is important. Just because you're an indie developer it doesn't mean you get to walk through walls. Sadly, it's easier to develop a cashgrab than it is to develop a well thought out game for the love of making a game.


I think in the review section, maybe a small box that reads "Refunded" on the reviews that are negative would be acceptable. I would be okay with that on my games review section. With that being said, I don't think Indie Devs should have their own rules or refund policies.

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 Linerax：

A double edged sword indeed. I think the refund policy should have its own section of rules for indie developers to compensate the indie developers' lack of available resources that other well developed studios have with ease. That doesn't mean indie developers can still have a free ride. I want to see games like Bastion and Super Meat Boy produced, not some sort of rubbish that will cause me to smash my head against a thousand desks(hence Day One: Garry's Incident).

And how would that work out?

Two diffrent refund policies would cause confusion for people. It wouldn't help indi developers either. A game is either good or not. Resources have little to do with it. AAA developers can still make bad games, just as indi developers can still make great games (you already said two of them).

AAA developers tend to throw money at problems. Indi developers think round the problem and come up with creative ways to do what they want to do to make the game, all on a realistic budget.

Does Walmart have a diffrent refund policy for a premium brank bike vs a lower end bike? No, they don't. Having such policies would just make customers angry.

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

I think in the review section, maybe a small box that reads "Refunded" on the reviews that are negative would be acceptable. I would be okay with that on my games review section.

And that is what will never happen. That is private financial information for the developer and Steam.

[Gus the Crocodile]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

引用自 BlazeMcNight：

I think in the review section, maybe a small box that reads "Refunded" on the reviews that are negative would be acceptable. I would be okay with that on my games review section.

And that is what will never happen. That is private financial information for the developer and Steam.

Whether you've refunded the game is only as private a piece of information as whether you've bought it (it's literally the same transaction in reverse), something these forums are already happy to publish with the mouse icon (as well as of course profiles in general, if not set to private). If reviews are going to stay in place after a user refunds the game, then having a "refunded" notice on reviews seems reasonable enough to me. It could help make potential refund-review bombs a bit more obvious, it could clarify that this person found the issues they raise in the review so bad that they warrant a refund, and even in cases where the reader doesn't consider it important information it's still not doing any harm.

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

Whether you've refunded the game is only as private a piece of information as whether you've bought it (it's literally the same transaction in reverse), something these forums are already happy to publish with the mouse icon (as well as of course profiles in general, if not set to private). If reviews are going to stay in place after a user refunds the game, then having a "refunded" notice on reviews seems reasonable enough to me. It could help make potential refund-review bombs a bit more obvious, it could clarify that this person found the issues they raise in the review so bad that they warrant a refund, and even in cases where the reader doesn't consider it important information it's still not doing any harm.

Both the bought and refund are still between the user and the company. It isn't announced except is a way the user already agreed to, such as having an open profile.

If somone left a negitive review with less then two hours of play, then wouldn't it be safe to say they refunded it? There is no need for an announcement of that. Reviews should be taken as stated, a refund being issued does not change that.

It the case of a companies finances and stock, it can hurt them, especialy if it is made public. If it is stated on a review, then the informaion can be gathered, giving such information to the public before a company can make up for any losses. That could cause the stocks to tank before action can be taken to correct the issue.

There is a reason why such information if private and it is fully justified, with legal backing for it.

No user (myself included) needs to know such information.

[Gus the Crocodile]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

Both the bought and refund are still between the user and the company. It isn't announced except is a way the user already agreed to, such as having an open profile.

The icon that displays that you've bought the game appears even if your profile is private (I believe playtime on reviews works the same way). Which means the only way in which you've "agreed" to have that information displayed is by agreeing to the SSA. Which is fine, but it demonstrates that a "refunded" notice on reviews would be agreed to in the same way just as acceptably. So your declaration that this is private information is correct but not useful in a normative sense; everything Steam displays is private information, until it isn't.

If somone left a negitive review with less then two hours of play, then wouldn't it be safe to say they refunded it?

Not at all. First of all, as you're aware, two hours' playtime isn't the only condition for refund availability, and second it would simply be a mistake to assume everyone pushes for their money back because they don't like something.

On compiling financial information, you could also do that with the "bought" notices, but we're not removing them. If you're against things like the mouse icon then at least your views are consistent I guess.

[Scorpios Society]

WHY YOU DONT SAY THAT SOME OF THIS PEOPLE USE REFUND TO TEST THE GAMES
YOU WANA PUT THAT THING ON REVIEWS ? IT IS NOT GOOD IDEA

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

引用自 Lukexs：

hey i need help i was just scammed and dont know how to get my items back..
the person who scammed me is :http://steamcommunity.com/id/xdbaumsx

I wouldn't suggest name shaming. I would make a Support Ticket and have Valve deal with it, there is little anyone here can do.

Good luck.

[Jase]

That's a lot more replies than I was expecting lol. Perhaps I should have been more clear. I'm not trying to find out if refunds are good or bad. I'm trying to see what information can be gleaned about people's purchasing habits and what makes them return something. So, for instance, are full priced $60 dollars games more frequently returned, or is it cheaper products that people might purchase on an impulse; does a game that goes on sale and sees a massive surge of sales also see a massive surge of returns; Are people returning games because of technical issues that they don't want to solve (if this is the case devs should spend more time on QC) and does how long ago the game was made affect this (ie old games aren't expected to work on modern OS's and hardware, new games are); are people returning it simply because they didn't like the game and they were basically demoing it to find this out (if this is the case, QC is fine and people want better gameplay and/or storytelling). edit: It also would indicate developers should just go ahead and make demos to avoid all those backcharges.

There is a lot of potentially useful information, but I think Spawn of Totoro got it right. These companies probably don't want to release the info and Valve, even if legally allowed to release it (which they probably aren't) probably wouldn't want to pis$ off the developers and publishers.I'm thinking there might just be some technical way for journalists to work around this issue though and get the information, or an approximation of such, another way. Haven't found anything yet though.

[Blondi]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

That is something that is not considered public informaion.
They all have a right to their privacy on such matters.

okay i know enough.... too many people are asking for money back......


nice way to shoot into a defensive stance man....... were kinda used to it with volvo, but this kinda says alot already once more...

"its not considered public info..... AND WERE IN OUR RIGHT NOT TO PUBLISH IT !!!!!" okay okay steve. keep your pants on .....