How likely is it that 16-bit Windows 3.1 & earlier games are going to get digital rereleases on Steam via OTVDM? Any chances?

[wadmodder1999]

In the early days of Microsoft Windows during the late-1980s & early-1990a there wasn't a whole lot of software and games being made for it, with many companies still releasing games & software on the aging MS-DOS until the release of Windows 95 in 1995. There were a couple of 16-bit Windows games designed for Windows 3.1 and earlier that were released, but many of these were released on BBS, AOL or other pre-WorldWideWeb services at the time, and they were very primitive even back then.

Many 16-bit Windows games that did make it to retail stores were very few and far between, with releases on 5.25 or 3.5 floppy disks, although CD-ROMs were introduced around this time. Later during Windows 3.1's lifestyle,  Microsoft introduced WinG to expand the graphical capabilities of Windows 3.1, but unlike the later DirectX, it wasn't very successful and saw very little use in games & software.

Despite the shortcomings of 16-bit Windows games and the demise of the Windows 9x family, Microsoft continued to support NTVDM for backward compatibility for 32-bit Windows NT systems with Windows NT 3.1 up until its final appearance in Windows 10, the last version of Windows with a 32-bit edition.

With the release of Windows 11, Microsoft chose not to provide a 32-bit version for any edition for the OS (Heck, not even to the enterprise edition either), which effectively discontinued and killed off NTVDM after 28 years of being included in Windows NT-based systems. RIP NTVDM 1993-2021

With that backstory addendum out of the way, how likely is it that there would be chances of 16-bit Windows 3.1 & earlier games being rereleased through digital distribution platforms like Steam (and maybe GOG) via OTVDM? (which is a port of the 16-bit Windows subsystem found in Wine to 64-bit Windows NT-based systems). We've already had DOSBox become widely used for digital distribution platforms with MS-DOS games since the late-2000s so now we need OTVDM to do the same for 16-bit Windows games on digital distribution platforms as well. Feel free to provide thoughts and comments for this thread.

[my new friend]

You would have to ask the rights holders for those games. Sega and Activision have been adding their old stuff to Steam and other services or games like inside Call of Duty games. The retro arcade is a decent part of some CoD games now.

[wadmodder1999]

Publicado originalmente por my new friend:

You would have to ask the rights holders for those games. Sega and Activision have been adding their old stuff to Steam and other services or games like inside Call of Duty games. The retro arcade is a decent part of some CoD games now.

I'm referring to Windows 3.1 & earlier games made in 16-bit executable code and not 16-bit consoles. Basically the early Windows games like Microsoft's Entertainment Pack series for example.

[my new friend]

Publicado originalmente por wadmodder1999:

Publicado originalmente por my new friend:

You would have to ask the rights holders for those games. Sega and Activision have been adding their old stuff to Steam and other services or games like inside Call of Duty games. The retro arcade is a decent part of some CoD games now.

I'm referring to Windows 3.1 & earlier games made in 16-bit executable code and not 16-bit consoles. Basically the early Windows games like Microsoft's Entertainment Pack series for example.

The first sentence in my reply still stands. No one but the rights holders know.

[wadmodder1999]

Well, maybe those Shareware and Freeware Windows 3.1 & earlier games published on CompuServe, Prodigy, AOL, Bulletin Board Systems among other early pre-WorldWideWeb services. Basically the ones that were made by amateur game developers before the modern indie game scene were a thing, were sometimes included in Shareware & Shovelware CD-ROMs in the mid-1990s, many sold via mail order and most that were coded with 16-bit Windows versions of Microsoft Visual Basic, WinG and other old Windows 3.1-era stuff like Klik & Play.

Hopefully Valve can get permission from otya128 to allow 16-bit Windows games designed for Windows 3.1 to be released on Steam someday, so that many of these amateur game developers from the Windows 3.1 days of Indie games can get their old 16-bit Windows 3.1 games rereleased.

[my new friend]

Publicado originalmente por wadmodder1999:

Well, maybe those Shareware and Freeware Windows 3.1 & earlier games published on CompuServe, Prodigy, AOL, Bulletin Board Systems among other early pre-WorldWideWeb services. Basically the ones that were made by amateur game developers before the modern indie game scene were a thing, were sometimes included in Shareware & Shovelware CD-ROMs in the mid-1990s, many sold via mail order and most that were coded with 16-bit Windows versions of Microsoft Visual Basic, WinG and other old Windows 3.1-era stuff like Klik & Play.

Hopefully Valve can get permission from otya128 to allow 16-bit Windows games designed for Windows 3.1 to be released on Steam someday, so that many of these amateur game developers from the Windows 3.1 days of Indie games can get their old 16-bit Windows 3.1 games rereleased.

Everything is down to the rights holders for the titles if they want to bring them to Steam or not.

[nullable]

Valve doesn't publish games on Steam, besides their own. The publishers and developers who own the IP for their respective games make those decisions, pay the store fees, publish the game to Steam, set up the store pages, set the prices, and participate in sales, etc.

Steam is not a secret at this point. Plenty of old games have been published on Steam. But there's often not overwhelming demand for ancient games and the rights holders may not be interested in the work/cost involved for a Steam release that may not generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile.

It's almost certainly not worth Valve's time to go out trying to court developers for 30+ year old games. And nothing is stopping those rights holders from putting games on Steam if that's what they want to do.

And whether it's a specific game, or a whole generation of games, that detail doesn't change situation.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

As you've been told that's up to the rights holders. If they've been essentially abandoned it's extremely unlikely that anyone would waste their time picking up the rights to 30+ year old pc games.

[davidb11]

THe odds are effectively zero.
Now, would I love to see some old school DOS games on Steam? Yes. Yes I would.
Will it happen any time soon. Probably not.

AS pointed out, the rights holders are needed here.
Not Steam.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por wadmodder1999:

Publicado originalmente por my new friend:

You would have to ask the rights holders for those games. Sega and Activision have been adding their old stuff to Steam and other services or games like inside Call of Duty games. The retro arcade is a decent part of some CoD games now.

I'm referring to Windows 3.1 & earlier games made in 16-bit executable code and not 16-bit consoles. Basically the early Windows games like Microsoft's Entertainment Pack series for example.

Nothing stops 16-bit code fropm running on 64-bit systems.
For windows w.1 and dos games you can actually just use dosbox and that's exactly what many developers do.

[davidb11]

Yep. DosBox is how you run any old game.

[wadmodder1999]

Publicado originalmente por davidb11:

Yep. DosBox is how you run any old game.

DOSBox has already been used on Steam for most games, like the early id Software games, most Apogee & 3D Realms games, among others.

OTVDM should be a better fit for playing Windows 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 & 3.11 games on 64-bit versions of Windows NT-based operating systems.

Most MS-DOS games on Steam are launched via a pre-made batch file with commands to launch the game via DOSBox, so maybe this batch file process should also work with OTVDM on Steam.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Publicado originalmente por wadmodder1999:

Publicado originalmente por davidb11:

Yep. DosBox is how you run any old game.

DOSBox has already been used on Steam for most games, like the early id Software games, most Apogee & 3D Realms games, among others.

OTVDM should be a better fit for playing Windows 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1 & 3.11 games on 64-bit versions of Windows NT-based operating systems.

Most MS-DOS games on Steam are launched via a pre-made batch file with commands to launch the game via DOSBox, so maybe this batch file process should also work with OTVDM on Steam.

Would need to be set up by the game's developers, just as DoxBox is. Each game I have that uses Dosbox installs it's own Dosbox in the game's directory as well. This isn't a common redisputable that Valve provides.

[Kargor]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Nothing stops 16-bit code fropm running on 64-bit systems.
For windows w.1 and dos games you can actually just use dosbox and that's exactly what many developers do.

DOSBox does not emulate Windows --- it's DOSBox, not WINBox.

I don't know whether it's possible to run Wndows 3.1 inside DOSBox -- but even so, they would have to get Microsoft on board...

And that's what's stopping Win16 code from running on 64 bit systems. It's been discontinued, so Win64 does not run it anymore... and DOSBox can't run it because it's not DOS.

[davidb11]

Actually, yes, You can run Windows 3.1 in Dosbox.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't think it would work, being that Windows 3.1 is basically just a graphical version of DOS.

I know this for a fact, since I've done it. Stars! is a very old game that runs on Windows 3.1 to Windows 95.
DOSBox is the only way to run it on modern systems.
And it loads up Windows 3.1 just fine.

THere's also Castle of the Winds. THat's an old school game that works on Windows 3.1, and it works in DosBox.

A lot of old school games do work in Dosbox.
Also, Doom is a 16 bit game and it was made for DOS.
There's very few games that can't work in DOSBOX to my knowledge.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Kargor:

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Nothing stops 16-bit code fropm running on 64-bit systems.
For windows w.1 and dos games you can actually just use dosbox and that's exactly what many developers do.

DOSBox does not emulate Windows --- it's DOSBox, not WINBox.

I don't know whether it's possible to run Wndows 3.1 inside DOSBox -- but even so, they would have to get Microsoft on board...

Winbox is probably in the works. And the answer to your question is Yes. Yes you can install windows in dosbox. You can go up to windows 95 even. But as said for windows 3.1 games the most you'd have to do is package it with the VB libraries it needed and maybe Moslo. So they're not terribly difficult to get running on modern systems.

Publicado originalmente por Kargor:

And that's what's stopping Win16 code from running on 64 bit systems. It's been discontinued, so Win64 does not run it anymore... and DOSBox can't run it because it's not DOS.

Totally does run. Again if you have the libraries or reasonable open source substitutes which are easily available (and not even required by all games), then the biggest issue you'll likely have is slowing the derned game down. I speak as someone who plays and runs games built for windows 3.1 on my windows 7 system.

WHat can I say. MORDOR is a hell of a drug.