Steam want to ban me for abusive refunds

[Von]

As of right now, i received many emails warning me that i will be banned if i continue to ask for refunds. I normally buy the game, try it, then ask for a refund if it's not fun.

I enjoyed this situation because is can try any game i want and keep the ones i love. I can also try totally new types of games and discover that i love them (and keep them) !

I actually have over 20 games in my wish list, only 2 or 3 i'm sure of to love. If Steam no longer want to refund games, i will not buy the 17 games and out of these 17 games, i may miss 5 games i love.

So, really, Steam ? So you really want me to buy 3 games instead of 8 ? If tomorrow i really get banned, i will just stop buying games directly; i will go to youbube to see some gameplay and if... yes, IF there a slight chance i don't like it, i will not buy it.

For sure, i'm not going to spend 1000$ on games i don't like. Steam should change this policy and stop banning.

[Haruspex]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von miamew3:

The refund system is not a means to demo games.

Right here.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Von:

i will go to youbube to see some gameplay and if... yes, IF there a slight chance i don't like it, i will not buy it.

This is what you should be doing anyway.

[Ethanol]

Next time you run a restaurant, a customer just finish half of the plate then hand it back to your counter and demand a refund.

See how you feel.

[captainwiseass]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Von:

As of right now, i received many emails warning me that i will be banned if i continue to ask for refunds. I normally buy the game, try it, then ask for a refund if it's not fun.

This is not what the refund system is for.

[William Shakesman]

Those messages are automated. I myself have gotten those messages on 20 consecutive refunds with no problem. You should not let Valve attempt to instill fear of using their stated process in you. Nor should you allow the petty jealousies of these forum users, who frequently misidentify Valves own definition of abuse, scare you. Many devs outright tell you to use the refund system to demo or test the requirements of their game.

The people in charge of this system understand gamers and their average use case. They are not going to ban you for random reasons, and a dozen refunds is not going to be that big a deal. None of us know the specifics of what Valve actually considers abuse, but it probably would not hurt to make sure you do these refunds in Steam credit so at least the money is yo yoing in Valves pocket and not accruing bank charges. And you should be mindful of the quantities of this you are doing. A new game a day and a new refund a day probably is not sustainable long term. As long as you keep this reasonable you should have nothing to fear

But if your plan is to, as a first option, use the refund to test every game that catches your eye and you are not keeping more than maybe one in ten of those, then you probably can expect Valve to cut you off.

But both of these statements are true: "the refund system is not a method of demoing games." and "The game is not fun is a perfectly defensible and always acceptable reason to get a refund." The trick is balancing both

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ethanol:

Next time you run a restaurant, a customer just finish half of the plate then hand it back to your counter and demand a refund.

See how you feel.

This is a digital marketplace so since he literally can uneat the food and it costs me nothing but a button press to give and take back the food, I don't see the problem. I want my customers to be happy. I don't want to run a Marrakesh street merchant stall where the goal is to trick or trap people into giving me their money. I want them to buy my next meal and feel safe trying my next experimental meal.

Hell, remember, everyone always reminds people that you don't actually own anything you buy on Steam so trying to use physical analogies to make people feel bad for the poor corporations is doubly silly.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von William Shakesman:

Those messages are automated. I myself have gotten those messages on 20 consecutive refunds with no problem. You should not let Valve attempt to instill fear of using their stated process in you. Nor should you allow the petty jealousies of these forum users, who frequently misidentify Valves own definition of abuse, scare you. Many devs outright tell you to use the refund system to demo or test the requirements of their game.

There have been people who have most certainly crossed the line of no return m8.
You keep waving the red cape around and sooner or later you'll find a hiorn and a kidney trying to occupy the same space-time coordinates.

[Brian9824]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von William Shakesman:

This is a digital marketplace so since he literally can uneat the food and it costs me nothing but a button press to give and take back the food, I don't see the problem

You don't see the problem because you don't understand how it works clearly. Its not free for Valve, every refund costs them money they don't get back. Individually its a small amount but when you have millions of users it adds up quite fast especially when people are abusing it

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Abuse
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

It's right there. They are also the ones that determine whether it is abuse or not, not the user.

[Brian9824]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von C²C^Guyver |NZB|:

Abuse
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you.

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

It's right there. They are also the ones that determine whether it is abuse or not, not the user.

Yep, using refunds as a system to demo games is something i'd definitely consider abuse. Especially when its so easy to get info on games. People always forget how much money it costs steam to process all those refunds too.

Of course i'm sure plenty will just claim steam should just eat it because they'd still make a profit, and yet those same people wouldn't be happy if they were losing a chunk of THEIR money to abuse.

[William Shakesman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von William Shakesman:

Those messages are automated. I myself have gotten those messages on 20 consecutive refunds with no problem. You should not let Valve attempt to instill fear of using their stated process in you. Nor should you allow the petty jealousies of these forum users, who frequently misidentify Valves own definition of abuse, scare you. Many devs outright tell you to use the refund system to demo or test the requirements of their game.

There have been people who have most certainly crossed the line of no return m8.
You keep waving the red cape around and sooner or later you'll find a hiorn and a kidney trying to occupy the same space-time coordinates.

Nobody is waving the red flag. The message is entirely automated. Neither he nor I are using the refund system in an abusive manner. If he is keeping the games he likes, he absolutely is not.

There exists a line, but police style "I am keeping my eye on you" vague ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ does not communicate nor signify crossing that line.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Also, it's an empty threat saying that you will not buy those games on your wish list. They're not making any money off of you anyway because you keep refunding games.

[Brian9824]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von William Shakesman:

Neither he nor I are using the refund system in an abusive manner. If he is keeping the games he likes, he absolutely is not.

Steam disagrees with you hence the message, and we've seen people lose the ability to refund if they ignore that message. Again, every refund costs steam money, so it doesn't matter if he is keeping the game he likes. Steam does not approve of mass refunds.

[AmsterdamHeavy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Von:

I actually have over 20 games in my wish list, only 2 or 3 i'm sure of to love. If Steam no longer want to refund games, i will not buy the 17 games and out of these 17 games, i may miss 5 games i love.

Weve seen this "complaint" frequently, but never with such a clear indication of abusing the system.

Refunds arent there so that you can return 2/3rds of your purchases.

[Brian9824]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AmsterdamHeavy:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Von:

I actually have over 20 games in my wish list, only 2 or 3 i'm sure of to love. If Steam no longer want to refund games, i will not buy the 17 games and out of these 17 games, i may miss 5 games i love.

Weve seen this "complaint" frequently, but never with such a clear indication of abusing the system.

Refunds arent there so that you can return 2/3rds of your purchases.

I mean at this point you have to wonder if people encouraging users to ignore warnings are acting maliciously and trying to purposefully get users banned from being able to refund.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Von:

As of right now, i received many emails warning me that i will be banned if i continue to ask for refunds. I normally buy the game, try it, then ask for a refund if it's not fun.

I enjoyed this situation because is can try any game i want and keep the ones i love. I can also try totally new types of games and discover that i love them (and keep them) !

I actually have over 20 games in my wish list, only 2 or 3 i'm sure of to love. If Steam no longer want to refund games, i will not buy the 17 games and out of these 17 games, i may miss 5 games i love.

So, really, Steam ? So you really want me to buy 3 games instead of 8 ? If tomorrow i really get banned, i will just stop buying games directly; i will go to youbube to see some gameplay and if... yes, IF there a slight chance i don't like it, i will not buy it.

For sure, i'm not going to spend 1000$ on games i don't like. Steam should change this policy and stop banning.

Please ignore any user who tells you to ignore that message, Continuing to mass refund will lead to you losing the ability to refund altogether. This is not something unique to steam and EVERY store does this.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von William Shakesman:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

There have been people who have most certainly crossed the line of no return m8.
You keep waving the red cape around and sooner or later you'll find a hiorn and a kidney trying to occupy the same space-time coordinates.

Nobody is waving the red flag. The message is entirely automated. Neither he nor I are using the refund system in an abusive manner. If he is keeping the games he likes, he absolutely is not.

There exists a line, but police style "I am keeping my eye on you" vague ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ does not communicate nor signify crossing that line.

That's the thing though. You can't keep the games you like and refund the ones you don't, in excess.

If he's getting repeated warnings, he is certainly abusing the system. He wouldn't get them otherwise.

[William Shakesman]

As a reminder, and this is a bit of a side topic here, the Developer Game Ban feature and the Refund feature both have the same definition of abuse, and the regulars of this board and Valve both agree that Developer Game Bans applied to force users to change negative reviews of the game do not constitute abuse.

So once again, what Valve considers abuse is almost always going to be completely different than what people think should be "abuse"