Buy on local store games instead of digital through steam.

[E.Z]

I dont like that steam can remove games from my library so I going to buy the games from a real store. In that way I can keep my games from being deleted. I understand steam but I dont like it. I will not buy digital games through steam any more. If any one else dont want the game that you paid to be removed from steam I suggest you buy from a local store and not buy from steam any more.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Haven't game assets always been digital? Or do people believe that such things only are digital because of the distribution form?

People really are naive enough to think that the physical mediums were a large cost? Cause they really were not.

Let alone that there is no such thing as "prices accordingly". That's just something people make up.

Indeed. I don't know where that idea of physical costing came from.

Back when I DJed, in the late 80s and early 90s, CDs were still relatively new. But even then I could get either a CD or 12" professionally turned out for about 50p a CD (at a minimu of 500 units). It also dropped down in price quickly too so that the last time I looked in the 1990s was about 10p a CD.

That's a staggeringly low amount for a small manufacturing amount. These also came with slipcases or jewel cases too. No artwork, which cost a few pence extra and you needed to provide the artwork master.

So to think that these things cost for a publisher who has contracts with mastering plants to manufacture millions is just silly. Sure you will get additional costs like packing (putting the artwork and discs in the cases) and storage or haulage, but these are still relatively small across the whole.

[Rainbow Dash]

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Haven't game assets always been digital? Or do people believe that such things only are digital because of the distribution form?

People really are naive enough to think that the physical mediums were a large cost? Cause they really were not.

Let alone that there is no such thing as "prices accordingly". That's just something people make up.

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Heitor Villa-Lobos:

Yes, DRM is an issue.

Which stems from developers thinking their side of the deal wasn't being held up by users who thought that just because no one stops you from doing something meant the thing is permitted.

Nothing starts in a vacuum. It takes two to dance this tango.

[Komarimaru]

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Haven't game assets always been digital? Or do people believe that such things only are digital because of the distribution form?

People really are naive enough to think that the physical mediums were a large cost? Cause they really were not.

Let alone that there is no such thing as "prices accordingly". That's just something people make up.

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

Not sure how long you've been doing PC gaming, but PC games were the most protected back then.

Code wheels, overlays, go to this page and this number in line to enter key word to play, CD keys, Star Force etc etc etc.

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Komarimaru:

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

Not sure how long you've been doing PC gaming, but PC games were the most protected back then.

Code wheels, overlays, go to this page and this number in line to enter key word to play, CD keys, Star Force etc etc etc.

They should bring back dial-a-pirate. I'm too young to have experienced that era of DRM.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Originally posted by E.Z:

I dont like that steam can remove games from my library so I going to buy the games from a real store. In that way I can keep my games from being deleted. I understand steam but I dont like it. I will not buy digital games through steam any more. If any one else dont want the game that you paid to be removed from steam I suggest you buy from a local store and not buy from steam any more.

I'd say buy anything you can on GoG at this point.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Haven't game assets always been digital? Or do people believe that such things only are digital because of the distribution form?

People really are naive enough to think that the physical mediums were a large cost? Cause they really were not.

Let alone that there is no such thing as "prices accordingly". That's just something people make up.

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

Yes, the difference is that with physical things were possible that technically weren't allowed and couldn't be enforced. That, however, has no meaning when it comes to the costs or anything like that.

You're wrong, physical games had terrible protection back in the 80s. Having to look up a number in the back of the manual every time you launched the game and such. Ugh, so glad that's gone.

You're looking at the prices from your own bias. There is no such thing as "full price" or "prices accordingly" outside whatever make belief you want to entertain.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Haven't game assets always been digital? Or do people believe that such things only are digital because of the distribution form?

People really are naive enough to think that the physical mediums were a large cost? Cause they really were not.

Let alone that there is no such thing as "prices accordingly". That's just something people make up.

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

That is a complete rose-tinted view of back then or you didn't experience it.

Because it wasn't anything like that. It was pretty bloody hirrble. It's a big reason why I never bothered with PC gaming until the 2000s seriously.

Because there were two very major reasons why it was awful.

(1) Incompatibility. You could buy a physical game, checking all the specs and read the manual for setup details, port settings and so on, and still find that you thought you'd got everything done and it didn't work. Either graphics didn't work or audio or something worse entirely.
Wrestling with games was quite common.

(2) DRM wasn't easy at all. Anti piracy methods like code wheels (dial-a-pirate) and so on were dreadful. Back on the ZX Spectrum for example, piracy was rampant so especially in later years these anti piracy devices got so silly they were often unrealiable.

Case in point, Elite. That was shipped with a "lenslock" device. A small plastic prism which you held over your TV screen to diffract an image and give you a code. Obvious problems were that TVs aren't all the same size so it didn't work unless you had EXACTLY the right size for what it was built for. And even then there were still some issues with it being unrealiable anyway.

So it was even worse at punishing legitimate paying customers.

As for your comments about "full price" this is a nonsense. There's no such thing. The closest you can get is RRP (recommended retail price) and even that was never adhered to.

Back in the PS1 era for example, I knew a few indpenedent retailers. The most base deal you could get at the time was to buy 3-5 units of any game and you'd pay about £26 per unit. This meant you had measly markup as you'd have an RRP of £29.99.

Of course the more you bought, the less you paid, which is why many indie shops couldn't compete with supermarkets. They'd get palletloads of a single game and split them for them stores, and also sell them cheaper, hang the profit. They'd make enough on gross turnover.

And if they didn't sell them all indie stores could also buy these part pallets cheap en masse. This is why you'd often find stores like CEX etc selling games "used" that have never been touched, dirt cheap. I still do that to this day.

So no there is no full price to speak of and it's a nonsense as it doesn't even apply gfor physical.

[Rainbow Dash]

Originally posted by crunchyfrog:

Originally posted by Rainbow Dash:

the difference here is that about any individual has the "basic" ability to share and copy files without the need for "right holders" and dedicated distributors for a dedicated platform, even non-official ones, to provide any distribution past a single initial release (if even that). back in the days gaming consoles were a niche hobby and were dedicated to that. pc gaming was much more limited as well and the games there less "protected". now we have baseline capabilities that don't require support and even distribution from game makers and dedicated distributors (physical) anymore

when i say "demanding prices accordingly" i mean that the prices are set as if they were physical (they set prices according to their (companies) biases), selling them per "unit", and overall it goes well with how with drm they try hard to make them as such in all the most inconvenient ways possible for the consumers while also going out of their way and working to prevent it from being any way beneficial, even going contrary to default spontaneous evolution like not needing for physical or even official virtual distributors because infinite amounts of copies can be made without them or being able to play offline or lan and even setting up dedicated servers. it's like having to pay a fee to take a drop of water out of the sea

That is a complete rose-tinted view of back then or you didn't experience it.

Because it wasn't anything like that. It was pretty bloody hirrble. It's a big reason why I never bothered with PC gaming until the 2000s seriously.

Because there were two very major reasons why it was awful.

(1) Incompatibility. You could buy a physical game, checking all the specs and read the manual for setup details, port settings and so on, and still find that you thought you'd got everything done and it didn't work. Either graphics didn't work or audio or something worse entirely.
Wrestling with games was quite common.

(2) DRM wasn't easy at all. Anti piracy methods like code wheels (dial-a-pirate) and so on were dreadful. Back on the ZX Spectrum for example, piracy was rampant so especially in later years these anti piracy devices got so silly they were often unrealiable.

Case in point, Elite. That was shipped with a "lenslock" device. A small plastic prism which you held over your TV screen to diffract an image and give you a code. Obvious problems were that TVs aren't all the same size so it didn't work unless you had EXACTLY the right size for what it was built for. And even then there were still some issues with it being unrealiable anyway.

So it was even worse at punishing legitimate paying customers.

As for your comments about "full price" this is a nonsense. There's no such thing. The closest you can get is RRP (recommended retail price) and even that was never adhered to.

Back in the PS1 era for example, I knew a few indpenedent retailers. The most base deal you could get at the time was to buy 3-5 units of any game and you'd pay about £26 per unit. This meant you had measly markup as you'd have an RRP of £29.99.

Of course the more you bought, the less you paid, which is why many indie shops couldn't compete with supermarkets. They'd get palletloads of a single game and split them for them stores, and also sell them cheaper, hang the profit. They'd make enough on gross turnover.

And if they didn't sell them all indie stores could also buy these part pallets cheap en masse. This is why you'd often find stores like CEX etc selling games "used" that have never been touched, dirt cheap. I still do that to this day.

So no there is no full price to speak of and it's a nonsense as it doesn't even apply gfor physical.

i played pc games since the 90s but only had official copies and back then didn't bother with a game if the pcs could not run it (which happened like one time because the framerate was too slow). and i never had a game that just did not run at all iirc, they all worked right away without any hoop, though it's true that some so-called "anti-piracy" measures existed back then and were already bs

not sure what "full prices" you're talking about, i never mentioned any of this, i guess you didn't understand what i wrote

[Paratech2008]

Physical Switch games cost way more than digital. Some Switch games are nearly impossible to find as a physical copy, a hat in time as an example. I purchased the "complete" edition for under $20 digital and it was the most expensive digital game I've purchased yet.

[kingjames488]

Originally posted by Paratech2008:

Physical Switch games cost way more than digital. Some Switch games are nearly impossible to find as a physical copy, a hat in time as an example. I purchased the "complete" edition for under $20 digital and it was the most expensive digital game I've purchased yet.

weird how they've made what used to be "the norm" a "luxury good" they can sell for more now...

kinda like how you used to be able to just freely "save videos" off youtube(which were already on your computer in the temporary internet files anyways...), but now they've implemented obfuscation so they can sell that as a premium feature.

the whole idea that you can do something on your computer and it not be on your computer is BS they use to milk you... it can't run if it's not in code on my computer and no one wants "games as a movie".

[Clone303]

Yes they can but they not doing it, like Overwatch 1 you can't play anymore anywhere

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Paratech2008:

Physical Switch games cost way more than digital. Some Switch games are nearly impossible to find as a physical copy, a hat in time as an example. I purchased the "complete" edition for under $20 digital and it was the most expensive digital game I've purchased yet.

It's not just Switch games, though Nintendo games have ALWAYS been more expensive, partly because they are VERY good at turning out the right amount for their expected sales and users often don't sell their stuff (first party especially).

But if you buy any games on a modern console for a game that's more indie or on limited release, it can be either hard to find or expensive. Sad but that's just how it is.

I always buy used or new depending on which is cheapest. For many games from CEX or others can be cheaper new than used sometimes (again depending on supply that's been turned out).

Switch first party games will always be expensive as they have been on previous platforms. But others you can get similarly cheap as on other platforms.

I got Stubbs the Zombie brand new for £8 when I bought my Switch. I also got Vostok Inc for £10 - that was a limited run. At least Nintendo are getting the message about putting continuous offers on their digital stores these days.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Originally posted by Paratech2008:

Physical Switch games cost way more than digital. Some Switch games are nearly impossible to find as a physical copy, a hat in time as an example. I purchased the "complete" edition for under $20 digital and it was the most expensive digital game I've purchased yet.

Supply & demand been a thing for over 30 years for video games.

If there high supply the odds of finding them are high, prices will fluctuate from MSRP to bargain bin you find at your Walmart.

If supply low you be limited where to search for it, prices will fluctuate from above MSRP, at MSRP, or just little lower than MSRP.

And I'd demand happens whole supply low well it just make things worst.

This is why I talk about trade offs between digital vs physical, while digital is infinite, physical isn't because publishers likely only print so many then discontinue afterwards due to cost, and favorite digital more since it removes 1) cost to make, 2) cost to ship, 3) cost to stock in 3rd party stores which eats at portion of profits which why since PS3, and Xbox 360 they heavily push for digital market, and PC just blew up going digital for most releases in the last ~14 years.

Also not just switch games, this actually happen across most of Nintendo systems basically they got a strong ecosystem to maintaining some value since things can be sold, and traded. Only problem is supply which affect things. Older system are getting plague with bootleg copies like pokemon games for gameboy & DS series.

Originally posted by kingjames488:

Originally posted by Paratech2008:

Physical Switch games cost way more than digital. Some Switch games are nearly impossible to find as a physical copy, a hat in time as an example. I purchased the "complete" edition for under $20 digital and it was the most expensive digital game I've purchased yet.

weird how they've made what used to be "the norm" a "luxury good" they can sell for more now...

kinda like how you used to be able to just freely "save videos" off youtube(which were already on your computer in the temporary internet files anyways...), but now they've implemented obfuscation so they can sell that as a premium feature.

the whole idea that you can do something on your computer and it not be on your computer is BS they use to milk you... it can't run if it's not in code on my computer and no one wants "games as a movie".

Supply & demand always been a thing mate.

For that YouTube stuff they're going out of their way to try convince people to pay them, the thing is you can still do the things for free downloading videos, and blocking ads without paying, but once they get whole site to redo their whole infrastructure this will allow them to incorporate ads into the videos, and put as they please no longer being overlay, or play in series that what they were testing earlier this year. Google wants those ads shoved down people throats.