Consumer rights violations for EU citizens and potentially globally

[MachineHead]

Dear Fellow Gamers,

With 16 years of service on my profile, I have been a Steam member, customer and gamer since 2008, a mere 5 years after it first launched. While we still had DVD's and game keys stickered inside our boxes, it was not a necessity when Steam first launched in 2003.

There are many issues in the gaming industry, one of which being that studios abandon entire projects, launch buggy/unstable unfinished products for full price with little to no customer service and our fundamental rights to own the products we purchased are being slowly but surely cut back on.

Whereas I could return a DVD for a game back to the shop within a week over a decade ago, now you have just mere hours to try the game before you cannot return it anymore. That while EU consumer law clearly states that you have a 14 day period and Steam is selling products within the EU and therefore has to adhere to it.

With the current changes to the sharing system for games, Steam has further infringed upon and violated our right to own our products and do with them as we please. In the old sharing system, as we all know, you logged in on a PC, authorized the sharing of your library with other users on that PC and only one account could be playing any game within that library. This was a just and correct solution. If I would have a DVD copy of, for example Bioshock, I can only lend it to one friend as I do not own two copies. This is entirely legal for private use as well.

Steam has now implemented a system, Netflix style (another infringer upon consumer rights), that blocks the ability for us, as customers, to choose what we do with our products. The new Steam "Family" system does not allow for users to share game libraries across borders. Which is a moronic and arbitrary limitation. Seeing as I live in Norway since 2011 and my entire family and many friends are spread across Europe/the Netherlands.

Therefore the demands are simple and clear, Steam must, ought, shall:

- Adhere to EU consumer rights law and DMA (Digital Markets Act)
- Test implementation of business practices against a code of ethics
- "Family" sharing system needs to be immediately changed so users can share with individuals, be it friends, family or acquaintances, their libraries. Obviously only one copy of the license key for a game can be active.

Not complying with these demands is not an option. As current practices are illegal and in violation of existing legal frameworks. For certain in the EU and (as we will read), I am near certain they violate consumer rights in the Americas, Asia and Australia or New Zealand for example.

@Steam:

Steam hereby has 5 working days, business days to comply. If they do not comply I will register the case with respective authorities and ombudsman to remedy their behaviour to force them to comply with the law and respect consumer rights.

This ultimatum ends on the 26th of October 2024 at 14:00 CET. No extensions, but's if's or maybe's will be accepted when it comes to respecting the consumer rights of millions.

Have some decency and restore our rights to use our products which we paid for as we see fit.

[Wolfpig]

None of the thinks you write would violate eu consumer rights, or are already fulfilling those as it needs to be.
So, good luck with whatever you try to achieve.

[Gilga ™ |Yonaguni|]

Good luck and keep us up to date.

[Crazy Tiger]

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

[ShelLuser]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Whereas I could return a DVD for a game back to the shop within a week over a decade ago, now you have just mere hours to try the game before you cannot return it anymore.

You're now conveniently leaving out the part that in almost every case the DVD had to be in its unopened original package, otherwise you could forget about any refunds. Not to mention that plentty of stores never gave full out refunds but only store credits.

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

That while EU consumer law clearly states that you have a 14 day period and Steam is selling products within the EU and therefore has to adhere to it.

That same law also mentions that software doesn't fall within the same category. Try reading it sometime?

(edit)

Also interesting to know: the refund policy limit is within 2 weeks or 2 hours tops. So... 14 days, what are you even complaining about?

[MachineHead]

Crazy Tiger lähetti viestin:

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

This is obviously a logically fallacious line of reasoning.

I buy a product. The license key is only for registering purposes to show I have a legally obtained, unique game which I purchased. If I decide to share that game, that is and should be my right.

The same goes for any purchased music albums, movies, books or even a painting to hang on the wall.

Any limitation which constrains my lending of said item to a relation of mine is an infringement upon my right to use my product/item as I see fit.

[Kargor]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Steam hereby has 5 working days, business days to comply. If they do not comply I will register the case with respective authorities and ombudsman to remedy their behaviour to force them to comply with the law and respect consumer rights.

Keep us posted with how that goes...

[MachineHead]

ShelLuser lähetti viestin:

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Whereas I could return a DVD for a game back to the shop within a week over a decade ago, now you have just mere hours to try the game before you cannot return it anymore.

You're now conveniently leaving out the part that in almost every case the DVD had to be in its unopened original package, otherwise you could forget about any refunds. Not to mention that plentty of stores never gave full out refunds but only store credits.

That is incorrect. This was a restriction added later in time. It was completely normal to install, try and bring back to the shop as it should be of course.

One of the main reasons that illegally downloaded games became so popular on the torrent services is exactly that limitation.

ShelLuser lähetti viestin:

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

That while EU consumer law clearly states that you have a 14 day period and Steam is selling products within the EU and therefore has to adhere to it.

That same law also mentions that software doesn't fall within the same category. Try reading it sometime?

(edit)

Also interesting to know: the refund policy limit is within 2 weeks or 2 hours tops. So... 14 days, what are you even complaining about?

If you order a tv and get it delivered or even from a shop, you install it at home and after 10 days decide you do not like it as much as you expected. You can return it.
The 2 hours part is understandable, but in it's execution being used to limit the chance of ever returning it in a realistic way. I don't know about you, but giving a game a fair chance sometimes takes more than two hours. It doesn't account for leaving the game running and stepping away because something unexpected happens as data is being collected about play time in the background.

In a power balance between companies like Steam or, say, an EA, Ubisoft, the customer has so much less power that these type of policies are easily abused as they are to benefit the companies. The implied "leniency" really isn't that in practice and the hard line execution of it is simply bad customer relations/customer service practices.

[MachineHead]

Crazy Tiger lähetti viestin:

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

The ability to do with a product whatever I want, while respecting creative rights of the developers in this case, is clearly being infringed upon. Clear as day.

I buy the LOTR trilogy books, I lend you the books.

Obviously the ability to share my property is a fundamental right of the consumer.

--
Edit: additional example

For those reading who misunderstand how their rights are being violated. Think of XBOX, Playstation, other consoles.

You void warranty when opening the box, correct?
You do not own your device, truly.

Whereas I can take the panels off my desktop PC, replace any part and keep full warranty on each component.

[Zaskar]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Crazy Tiger lähetti viestin:

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

The ability to do with a product whatever I want, while respecting creative rights of the developers in this case, is clearly being infringed upon. Clear as day.

I buy the LOTR trilogy books, I lend you the books.

Obviously the ability to share my property is a fundamental right of the consumer.

What YOU think is your right doesn't automatically make it your right legally. Valve is fully complying with the EU regulations and is even more generous than what is required. If you think you should have more rights, bring it up to your representatives.

[MachineHead]

Zaskar lähetti viestin:

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

The ability to do with a product whatever I want, while respecting creative rights of the developers in this case, is clearly being infringed upon. Clear as day.

I buy the LOTR trilogy books, I lend you the books.

Obviously the ability to share my property is a fundamental right of the consumer.

What YOU think is your right doesn't automatically make it your right legally. Valve is fully complying with the EU regulations. If you think you should have more rights, bring it up to your representatives.

Negative.

The right to have full ownership over products I buy is entirely established. To share, lend, destroy my property is also within the rights of the consumer.

I cannot edit a game and sell it as my own, that is in violation of the developer's right, as an example.

[aiusepsi]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

That while EU consumer law clearly states that you have a 14 day period and Steam is selling products within the EU and therefore has to adhere to it.

Full text of the EU Consumer Rights Directive:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083#d1e40-64-1

Article 9

Right of withdrawal

1. Save where the exceptions provided for in Article 16 apply, the consumer shall have a period of 14 days to withdraw from a distance or off-premises contract, without giving any reason, and without incurring any costs other than those provided for in Article 13(2) and Article 14.

...

Article 16

Exceptions from the right of withdrawal

Member States shall not provide for the right of withdrawal set out in Articles 9 to 15 in respect of distance and off-premises contracts as regards the following:
...
(m) the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal.

To buy something on Steam you have to tick a box next to the following text:

I agree to the terms of the Steam Subscriber Agreement (last updated 27 Sep, 2024.)

By clicking the button below to proceed you agree that Valve provides you immediate access to digital content as soon as you complete your purchase, without waiting the 14-day withdrawal period. Therefore, you expressly waive your statutory right to withdraw from this purchase but Valve’s voluntary refund policy still applies.

So, they're in compliance with Article 16(m) and don't have to apply a 14 day period.

[Crazy Tiger]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Crazy Tiger lähetti viestin:

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

This is obviously a logically fallacious line of reasoning.

I buy a product. The license key is only for registering purposes to show I have a legally obtained, unique game which I purchased. If I decide to share that game, that is and should be my right.

The same goes for any purchased music albums, movies, books or even a painting to hang on the wall.

Any limitation which constrains my lending of said item to a relation of mine is an infringement upon my right to use my product/item as I see fit.

You should read the licenses you purchase. Family sharing is not a right.

Again, educate yourself because you deny the facts surrounding EU directives and laws by substituting them with "wishful thinking and assumptions".

[Crazy Tiger]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Crazy Tiger lähetti viestin:

It appears someone read or viewed clickbait content. Steam is fully within EU laws.

In the EU you waive your right to withdrawal. Zero playtime is fully according to EU laws, the 2 hours already is a courtesy that exceeds the EU directives.

Family sharing is NOT a right.

Please educate yourself.

The ability to do with a product whatever I want, while respecting creative rights of the developers in this case, is clearly being infringed upon. Clear as day.

I buy the LOTR trilogy books, I lend you the books.

Obviously the ability to share my property is a fundamental right of the consumer.

--
Edit: additional example

For those reading who misunderstand how their rights are being violated. Think of XBOX, Playstation, other consoles.

You void warranty when opening the box, correct?
You do not own your device, truly.

Whereas I can take the panels off my desktop PC, replace any part and keep full warranty on each component.

Again, educate yourself, cause you're basing things on feelings and wrong analogies, not facts. You are also making up "rights" that aren't there.

Nothing Steam does violates EU directives and laws. You not understanding said directives or laws does not change that either.

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

The right to have full ownership over products I buy is entirely established. To share, lend, destroy my property is also within the rights of the consumer.

In your mind, perhaps. Not in the factual world of gaming licenses.

[Mad Scientist]

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

- "Family" sharing system needs to be immediately changed so users can share with individuals, be it friends, family or acquaintances, their libraries. Obviously only one copy of the license key for a game can be active.

Family Share is a privilege not a right. They don't need to do anything they don't want to do and if the eu tries to be too bossy to international trade they could end up revoking it entirely for all of the eu if they begin demanding too much. Be careful what you wish for.

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Not complying with these demands is not an option. As current practices are illegal and in violation of existing legal frameworks. For certain in the EU and (as we will read), I am near certain they violate consumer rights in the Americas, Asia and Australia or New Zealand for example.

This is stemming from another youtube video where there was very little change overall and only is informing users of what has been true since the beginning of Steam right?

You'll find corporations often don't respond well to "demands" either.

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

Steam hereby has 5 working days, business days to comply. If they do not comply I will register the case with respective authorities and ombudsman to remedy their behaviour to force them to comply with the law and respect consumer rights.

Let us know how that goes. Just remember the more you seek legal moves, the more it's going to get very expensive, very quickly.

They also aren't going to respond to a "legal demand" from a mere forum post, if you wanted to get their attention to legal matters you'd e-mail their legal team.

MachineHead lähetti viestin:

This ultimatum ends on the 26th of October 2024 at 14:00 CET. No extensions, but's if's or maybe's will be accepted when it comes to respecting the consumer rights of millions.

Again, this is not the place for legal inquiry and certainly not 'legal' demands. Try contacting their legal team if you have a 'legal demand'.

[Kargor]

Mad Scientist lähetti viestin:

They also aren't going to respond to a "legal demand" from a mere forum post, if you wanted to get their attention to legal matters you'd e-mail their legal team.

Even better, he should probably have his lawyer do that for him. Armchair-lawyers sending unqualified demands are probably daily business; he might not even get a response.