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Valve ordered to refund $15k to CS:GO player as cases ruled ‘illegal’ in Austria
https://www.dexerto.com/counter-strike-2/valve-ordered-to-refund-15k-to-csgo-player-as-cases-ruled-illegal-in-austria-2437525/

Valve must pay back €14,096.58 ($15,426.73) to a CS:GO player who spent the money opening cases after a court in Austria ruled that Counter-Strike cases constituted illegal gambling in the country. Valve can choose to appeal the decision.

Gambling is evil, steam also broke Austrian law
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76-90 / 194 のコメントを表示
xBCxRangers の投稿を引用:
These posters above, ended up absolutely wrong.

Well that is kinda correct, at least 1 poster above did end up absolutely wrong and didn't even get the subject of the lawsuit correct before they jumped in trying to play the kids angle before realizing it had nothing to do with children.
RiO 2024年3月5日 14時53分 
Tito Shivan の投稿を引用:
TLDR: Austria does not forbid gambling, but requires a license to do so. Since Valve doesn't own one they cannot sell lootboxes, as AUS tribunal has considered the items within as monetary value.
Austrians can say goodbye to CSGO cases, like it happened in Belgium.

And 14K is pretty much spare change for any big company anyway.

Note this will affect every game with lootboxes (Like EA's FIFA Ultimate cards). So this is a case of Austria banning lootboxes (Doubt any developer will go through getting a gabling license)

Godsped lootboxes, (Looking forward to Spain to follow suit with a similar regulation which was announced last year, but elections and new goverment have put things on hold)

You forgot the Netherlands, who were first out of the gate, with Belgium second.

And yeah- can't wait for this to hit the entire EU market.
Right now, publishers are getting away with denying service to individual countries, because those are small and fractured markets. But if they have to start treating the entire EU as effectively second-rate citizens in games, that's going to lead to an untenable situation where something will have to give.


Aluvard の投稿を引用:
EU doesn't have unified regulation or legislation for lootboxes.
Yet. It doesn't have unified regulation -- yet.

Fact of the matter is that when the Dutch started this thing off and the Belgians followed, both France and Germany already had given public statements that they would wait and see how things would develop and that they would tow the line commonly established by others in the Union.
After that Spain made public their plans for legal reform; the Netherlands went in for round two to shore up the legislation around loot-boxes they already had going with their eyes set on extending it to any predatory monetization model; Austria now has ruled this stuff illegal; and meanwhile the Dutch are also planning to petition the legal model they're working on to end predatory monetization to the EU as a whole, for adoption as an EU-wide Regulation.
With various voices in the EU, not being averse to it.
🔮🎆💎Darth Hulka💎🎆 の投稿を引用:
What was that you said 4 months ago? valve couldn't get sued? ok..
whats the score again? i lost count.

Have a link? All I could find was this - https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4031348273661147050/?ctp=20#c4029096764571276511

Saying valve wouldn't be sued over dropping Windows support which in case you weren't aware this has nothing to do with Windows.
RiO 2024年3月5日 15時03分 
Aluvard の投稿を引用:
Prosciutt1 の投稿を引用:
oooh i saw the Austria comments right now. Why they banned lootboxes only in Austria and not in whole EU?

They didn't (at least yet). It's about Valve running afoul particular austrian laws - you need to have license for gambling, gambling in itself isn't forbidden.

It's the same in the Netherlands.
And with the license for gambling comes a whole heap of additional conditions, such as ensuring your customers do not overspend passed reasonable ceilings, maintaining a fair ratio of payout that is free of manipulation, submitting your accounting to external audits for verification, disallowing service to minors and performing stringent age checks, strict compliance checks for processing of personal data, etc. All manner of conditions designed to curb predation on gambling addicts and would-be addicts sensitive to the stimuli involved, as well as ensure that those choosing to try their luck aren't screwed over. (And no; the 'tax' on those licenses is not a nice little income on the side for the state. It's all reinvested into the authorities enforcing the anti-gambling laws; into public-awareness campaigns; and into anti-addiction therapy and addict care.)

Companies that don't want to submit to that kind of thing usually don't do so, because they know their income model is predatory and would fail to be profitable once they submit to all these conditions, as well as having to pay the 'tax' that flows back to repairing the damage their 'game' does to society.
最近の変更はRiOが行いました; 2024年3月5日 15時17分
well valve is now the bad guy, so that means i won. my guzu is undefeated this year, all my enemies are losing.
🔮🎆💎Darth Hulka💎🎆 の投稿を引用:
well valve is now the bad guy, so that means i won. my guzu is undefeated this year, all my enemies are losing.

If by losing you mean setting new records for number of users - https://gamerant.com/steam-concurrent-player-record-34-million/

In which case i think Valve wants to keep "losing"
brian9824 の投稿を引用:
🔮🎆💎Darth Hulka💎🎆 の投稿を引用:
What was that you said 4 months ago? valve couldn't get sued? ok..
whats the score again? i lost count.

Have a link? All I could find was this - https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4031348273661147050/?ctp=20#c4029096764571276511

Saying valve wouldn't be sued over dropping Windows support which in case you weren't aware this has nothing to do with Windows.
No not that, im talking about something different, from 4 months ago. having to do with accounts.
🔮🎆💎Darth Hulka💎🎆 の投稿を引用:
brian9824 の投稿を引用:

Have a link? All I could find was this - https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/4031348273661147050/?ctp=20#c4029096764571276511

Saying valve wouldn't be sued over dropping Windows support which in case you weren't aware this has nothing to do with Windows.
No not that, im talking about something different, from 4 months ago. having to do with accounts.
Have a link?
brian9824 の投稿を引用:
xBCxRangers の投稿を引用:
These posters above, ended up absolutely wrong.

Well that is kinda correct, at least 1 poster above did end up absolutely wrong and didn't even get the subject of the lawsuit correct before they jumped in trying to play the kids angle before realizing it had nothing to do with children.
It is unfortunate that despite links proving otherwise, the same misinformation is spread.
RiO 2024年3月5日 15時26分 
brian9824 の投稿を引用:
cinedine の投稿を引用:
Why should there be fines? It was a civil case.

Being a civil case doesn't mean there aren't fines, fines are one of the primary ways of addressing complaints in civil cases.

For instance Epic Games set a new world record for having to pay a $275 million civil fine for COPPA violations.

A civil fine or civil penalty is issued by the state for damages done to it and its citizens.
It is indeed not a criminal judgment, but a civil one.

However, this only applies when it is the state that is the plaintiff which is not what people colloquially mean when referring to a civil case. The common understanding is that that is a case between two private legal persons.

And in such cases, any money owed is usually set at an estimate of reasonable real-world damages. The US, for instance, is fairly unique in acknowledging and allowing for the concept of punitive damages exceeding the real-world damage in civil cases between private legal persons.
最近の変更はRiOが行いました; 2024年3月5日 15時27分
happy 2024年3月5日 15時31分 
Interesting, i wonder what is gonna end up happening to his Account.
RiO 2024年3月5日 15時35分 
Start_Running の投稿を引用:
What you will likely see is the items you'd get in cases normally appearing in an alternative in game cash shop. That Item you could get from spending $2 opening a free case? Yeah that's gonna cost you at least $20. LoL. Bonus evil points if they only make them available in limited quantities over a limited time.

Yea on the cash shop- we've already seen that happen before.
Nay on the limited quantities over limited time, or it'd be another fine waiting. Feigning limited availability in order to drive consumers to make purchases they otherwise would not have, is counted as an aggressive commercial practice within the EU and is illegal. Has been for years. Ceiling for fines on it is quite high as well: 10% annual worldwide turnover, iirc. So not something to trifle with.
最近の変更はRiOが行いました; 2024年3月5日 15時36分
Start_Running の投稿を引用:
What you will likely see is the items you'd get in cases normally appearing in an alternative in game cash shop. That Item you could get from spending $2 opening a free case? Yeah that's gonna cost you at least $20. LoL. Bonus evil points if they only make them available in limited quantities over a limited time.

And the problem is?

CS:GO and other games' lootboxes already contain limited time offers.
The item you can get on the market for 20 moneyz could also easily cost you 200 when you try to acquire it through lootboxes - it's almost like if you want to have something specific lootboxes are actually the worst way to obtain it. Unless you are lucky - which means it's *gasp* gambling.

Also you realizse that when you are "spending $2 opening a free case" the "free" part becomes obsolete? I'd say extra bonus points if you have to buy the case and the key seperately and the case is only available for a limited time and then costs 20 dollars on a community market. Luckily there is no such ... never mind.
I don't support gambling nor loot boxes in video games... but, this situation is kinda the player's fault. Like, how in the world do you spend 15K on one video game and then suddenly realize, "Oh ♥♥♥♥, I'm wasting money"? Plus, since gambling laws differ from country to country, it's pretty dumb for Valve, an American-based company, to get sued by someone else in the other side of the world.
As long as you feel happy, anything Valve messed up will ensure your mood brightens up. :steamhappy:
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投稿日: 2024年3月5日 2時25分
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