Incorrect/Misleading Sale Pricing on Franchises

[IgnoranceIsBliss]

When Steam has a sale on a franchise, they often show a fixed percentage off the games within that franchise, even when one game (usually the latest) has no discount whatsoever.

For example, the Chineese New Year sale currently shows the Tomb Raider franchise for 75% off, and the XCOM franchise for 75-83% off.

However, both of these franchises contain a game that does not have a sale discount at all.

According to Australian law (and the law in many other jurisdictions), this is actually illegal and you are obligated to sell the game to your customers at the advertised discount.

This is easily remedied by simply saying 'Up To 75%' instead of '75%' in your list, or saying 'Most Games -75%' etc. This is true, and clear.

As it is, your advertised discount is misleading, incorrect and could be considered as violating local laws.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

For example, the Chineese New Year sale currently shows the Tomb Raider franchise for 75% off, and the XCOM franchise for 75-83% off.

However, both of these franchises contain a game that does not have a sale discount at all

Do you really expect Rise of the Tomb Raider or XCom 2 to be 75% off already?

It's only misleading if you are stupid. At no point does it say 75-83% off the entire franchise. You must be new to retail or the internet if you think this old chesnut is 'illegal'.

[Tom]

Originally posted by J4MESOX4D:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

For example, the Chineese New Year sale currently shows the Tomb Raider franchise for 75% off, and the XCOM franchise for 75-83% off.

However, both of these franchises contain a game that does not have a sale discount at all

Do you really expect Rise of the Tomb Raider or XCom 2 to be 75% off already?

It's only misleading if you are stupid. At no point does it say 75-83% off the entire franchise. You must be new to retail or the internet if you think this old chesnut is 'illegal'.

No they dont expect it to be cheap they are simply pointing out something that has been labeled incorrectly and could possibly be viloating laws in certain countries. For refrence there not crying mad or even rekt there simply trying to be helpful.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by erish:

Originally posted by J4MESOX4D:

Do you really expect Rise of the Tomb Raider or XCom 2 to be 75% off already?

It's only misleading if you are stupid. At no point does it say 75-83% off the entire franchise. You must be new to retail or the internet if you think this old chesnut is 'illegal'.

No they dont expect it to be cheap they are simply pointing out something that has been labeled incorrectly and could possibly be viloating laws in certain countries

It's not been labeled 'incorrectly' - the store page highlights the existing marginal offers between games that have been discounted within. This is a classic retail tactic to instigate a click for further investigation. Anyone with competence or that has read the Steam TOS in relation to discounted products will realise that the reduced items are on only selected titles and don't apply to all items within the selected franchise. Whilst it may disappoint some users especially those who are unfamiliar with domains like retail and online shopping; it isn't illegal in any country and has been a prominent tactic on Steam for over a decade and in retail as a whole for far longer. If there were any concerns about the way Steam were conveying featured deals from a legality standpoint; they would already be enforced to change their pricing publication structure long before now.

Kinda reminds me of the '3 for 2' deals that so many retailers have - people buying two items for £10 and then a £100 one and expecting to get that one for free

Sometimes, common sense has to be applied in even the most simplistic situations.

[Tom]

Originally posted by J4MESOX4D:

Sometimes, common sense has to be applied in even the most simplistic situations.

Exactly so someone trying to help is not common sence? what is common sence to you does not equal what other believe to be common sence. As pointed out in the OP point. In Aus they have different standards and norm, these change and vary from country to country and since Valve needs to operate by those countries rules i hardly see this as a common sence problem as you put it and more simply someone trying to be helpful.

[Joey JoJo]

Originally posted by J4MESOX4D:

Anyone with competence or that has read the Steam TOS in relation to discounted products...

Which apparently isn't you, since the TOS mentions NOTHING about discounts and sales.

it isn't illegal in any country

Except for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, probably more. I guess those aren't countries?

has been a prominent tactic on Steam for over a decade

As long as we're pulling crap out of our butts, may as well go big, huh? Steam's been around for 11 years now, but the sales, discounts and advertising practices haven't been. Decidedly not for over a decade.

If there were any concerns about the way Steam were conveying featured deals from a legality standpoint; they would already be enforced to change their pricing publication structure long before now.

That's not how the law works, cupcake, but nice try. You try to beat down opposition with "competence" and "common sense", but you keep throwing out fallacy after fallacy. Your appeal to "If it were illegal, it would have been shut down long ago" is just ridiculous.

[Start_Running]

Yawn again. What is with the idiots on this thing. Franchise sale means sale across the franchise it does not explicitly mean every item in the franchise.

Store wide sale sale means many or most oitems in the store on sale. It does not mean every item on sale.

Also this is not illegal. They are not posting incorrect prices, nor incorrect discounts. if you feel otherwise. Get a lawyer and try your luck you could win a few 100K from it.

[cinedine]

Franchise discounts are to be read as "up to". Same as a store plastering -80% stickers all over their windows where you see Armani and Gucci clothes which are exempt from the sale. But the chinese knock-offs you can buy inside are indeed -80%.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by joeyjojothinksheisamonkey:

Originally posted by J4MESOX4D:

Anyone with competence or that has read the Steam TOS in relation to discounted products...

Which apparently isn't you, since the TOS mentions NOTHING about discounts and sales.

it isn't illegal in any country

Except for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, probably more. I guess those aren't countries?

has been a prominent tactic on Steam for over a decade

As long as we're pulling crap out of our butts, may as well go big, huh? Steam's been around for 11 years now, but the sales, discounts and advertising practices haven't been. Decidedly not for over a decade.

If there were any concerns about the way Steam were conveying featured deals from a legality standpoint; they would already be enforced to change their pricing publication structure long before now.

That's not how the law works, cupcake, but nice try. You try to beat down opposition with "competence" and "common sense", but you keep throwing out fallacy after fallacy. Your appeal to "If it were illegal, it would have been shut down long ago" is just ridiculous.

Wrong assumptions doesn't constitute to a lawsuit. A misunderstanding or wishful thinking doesn't mean the user is being misled. They may have misled themselves but that's their problem.

Please showcase ONE occasion where Valve have been held accountable for false advertising and have been convicted. I will accept one case in any country on the planet...

If people still can't determine the difference between being misled and a legality rule breach; I can see exactly why they made such a deadful misjudgement in the first place

[Purple Tentacle]

the UK over the GTA 5 xmas sale.

there you go

[Washell]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

According to Australian law

If I read this explanation[www.thenewspaperworks.com.au], I'm not at all sure Valve is breaking anything.

Advertising campaigns that state “Up to 50% off ” are likely to cause consumers to believe a number of items are discounted by 50 per cent and that all other items within the store will also be discounted to some degree.

An advertiser should not advertise this type of saving if only a few items are offered at 50 per cent off and the remaining items in the store are offered with little or no discount at all.

Both Tomb Raider and XCom have over a dozen games discounted, and only a single exclusion.

Start by asking two fairly straight- forward questions: ‘Is it the truth?’ and ‘Does the ad convey a truthful impression overall?’.

With a modicum of common sense, yes. And overall, hell yes.

It certainly doesn't appear to be such a black and white law as you made it out to be.

Which brings me to my next point: Valve runs these things by legal, and if they say it's fine, a forum post won't change a thing. If you truly feel they're violating advertising standards, report them to the agency that maintains and enforces them. A legal notice from them to Valve will achieve more than all our internet lawyering in here.

[IgnoranceIsBliss]

Thanks for the discussions, guys.

The trouble is that the law is all about the LETTER of the law, and 'common sense' doesn't come into it anywhere.

In Australia and some other juristictions, you if you offer something 'Site-Wide' or 'Store Wide' you MUST actually state 'Some Exclusions Apply' if they do. In this case, it actually IS illegal to say that everything is 40% off when some items are only 20% or not discounted at all. You're held to the literal, advertised truth.

I'm simply pointing out that if Valve wanted to cover their asses in all juristictions, saying 'Up To' or the simple addition of an asterisk with a 'Some Exclusions Apply' below would be suitable. As it is, in this country someone would have a legal foothold to demand EVERY game in the franchise (including the latest one) at the discounted price.

Since the fix should be small and/or trivial, it's probably worth implementing.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

Thanks for the discussions, guys.

The trouble is that the law is all about the LETTER of the law, and 'common sense' doesn't come into it anywhere.

In Australia and some other juristictions, you if you offer something 'Site-Wide' or 'Store Wide' you MUST actually state 'Some Exclusions Apply' if they do. In this case, it actually IS illegal to say that everything is 40% off when some items are only 20% or not discounted at all. You're held to the literal, advertised truth.

Then feel free to talke them to court. But in this case. You have to check the wording. There is no explicit statement of the entire franchise being on sale. So Again. Letters matter. Franchise Sale just means there are items in the franchise for sale. That you imply the entire franchise is unfortunate but it was naver explicitly stated.

[cinedine]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

Thanks for the discussions, guys.

The trouble is that the law is all about the LETTER of the law, and 'common sense' doesn't come into it anywhere.

What do you think judges and juries are for?

Also where does it state the whole franchise or every game is discounted or the discounts apply franchise wide? Nowhere, it's just you who reads it that way.
Unless an item is explicetly advertised with a discount, you dont have a point.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsBliss:

The trouble is that the law is all about the LETTER of the law, and 'common sense' doesn't come into it anywhere.

In Australia and some other juristictions, you if you offer something 'Site-Wide' or 'Store Wide' you MUST actually state 'Some Exclusions Apply' if they do. In this case, it actually IS illegal to say that everything is 40% off when some items are only 20% or not discounted at all. You're held to the literal, advertised truth.

At no point has Valve stated that the deals cover the entire franchise. Once again; it's wrong assumptions and false expectations of the consumer.

If Valve stated 'up to 83% off'; a tiny minority of users would still probably complain that other titles within the franchise are not on sale. It's all sounding a bit petty more than a legality challenge.

[Red Shift]

http://www.destructoid.com/valve-misled-customers-during-the-steam-summer-sale-says-uk-s-advertising-authority-319371.phtml