Do people cared about new Unity engine laws?

[Mulyono]

being tortured by steam tax is already pain in the ass, now unity will force unity indie game developer to killing their dream

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

Първоначално публикувано от Satoru:

Unity has 'clarified' this a few times and each tme it doesnt make sense

1) multiple installs count on different platforms count (pc is 1 install and a steamdeck would be 1 different install too), also reinstalls do count 'somehow'
2) no clarifications on how on earth they're going to convince MS/Apple to fork over millions in fees for things like game pass or apple arcade
3) demos count as installs, so yeah basically if you made the dumb mistake of putting your game in a NextFest or something, congrats you're now bankrupt!
4) it would also 'appear' that any open/closed betas would also count. So something like a technical betas would count as an install and then the retail release would be a 'different' one. So yeah say goodbye to those too
5) Dont worry charity bundles don't count! How is Unity going to know what is a charity bundle install? They have 'proprietary' methods of doing so and defintley trust them on that.

I feel the most concerning thing is, is the method they use to report a games been isntalled. Means a server setup with at least a ping set saying....

"Hey, I just got installed, here's the hash for what game and engine version! Here's everything about the users system too, but we won't say we got that!"

I wonder if this is going to turn into; "Hey guys, that was a mistake and wasn't supposed to be a public announcement. Sorry."

[Komarimaru]

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

I feel the most concerning thing is, is the method they use to report a games been isntalled. Means a server setup with at least a ping set saying....

"Hey, I just got installed, here's the hash for what game and engine version! Here's everything about the users system too, but we won't say we got that!"

I wonder if this is going to turn into; "Hey guys, that was a mistake and wasn't supposed to be a public announcement. Sorry."

If they are tracking installs, it means they've a method to monitor a persons PC. I for one will be looking into how to find this method, and make sure and bypass it somehow.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Първоначално публикувано от Komarimaru:

Първоначално публикувано от SlowMango:

I wonder if this is going to turn into; "Hey guys, that was a mistake and wasn't supposed to be a public announcement. Sorry."

If they are tracking installs, it means they've a method to monitor a persons PC. I for one will be looking into how to find this method, and make sure and bypass it somehow.

Oh, I'm sure people are already doing that since this little slip.

[IFIYGD]

Hi.
Yes, I care.
The Unity fee-per-install changes won't just affect PC games on Steam.
It will affect PC games on any platform, console games on any platform, and mobile games on any mobile platform.

My daughter is a junior dev at a mobile-only game studio. They have 2 games on early development using Unity. The studio founders told everyone to take a vacation yesterday and not come into work until they can decide what they are going to do. This could kill the start-up or lead to lay-offs for devs and support staff.

Junior devs and support staff will go first.

So yeah- I care.
For every huge AAA game studio or publisher you are thinking about, thinking they won't be hurt much- there will still be people let go who won't have income to pay bills or take care of their families or medical expenses, and there will be thousands of solo devs and small studios who go bankrupt or just go under and choose to close up- real people *besides gamers* are going to be hurt by this. Including my daughter.

So yes. I care about it.

[Philco7a]

Says they have to generate revenue to be forced to pay the fee. Indie users only will have to pay if they exceed $200k sales. If game ran in Emerging Markets they won't pay hardly anything at all.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Първоначално публикувано от Philco7a:

Says they have to generate revenue to be forced to pay the fee. Indie users only will have to pay if they exceed $200k sales. If game ran in Emerging Markets they won't pay hardly anything at all.

$200k in sales and/or 200k installs. Then the developer will be charged X cents per an install, sending the developer a bill for said amount on a regular basis.


Unit is killing it's self right now with this. There are many other options and they don't charge per an install.

Even if they don't charge for a first install, there really is not reason for a charge per an install. Ad what will they do if the developer shuts down? Claim ownership of the game or fine someone else to charge? No, the whole thing beyond ridiculous.

And what about modded games? People tend to uninstall, remove all files and reinstall those games to fix issues with mods.

And I know I have several games I reinstall every now and them, play for a while, then remove. I've installed Battletech five times since I got it.

I agree with install charges being a scummy thing to do. I was working on a possible game, but now will look into a different engine. Godot seems like it will work and is 100% royalty free, with no install charge.

This ranks right up there with install limits on games that developer have tried in the past. Didn't work for them, I doubt it will work out for Unity either.

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от Spawn of Totoro:

Първоначално публикувано от Philco7a:

Says they have to generate revenue to be forced to pay the fee. Indie users only will have to pay if they exceed $200k sales. If game ran in Emerging Markets they won't pay hardly anything at all.

$200k in sales and/or 200k installs. Then the developer will be charged X cents per an install, sending the developer a bill for said amount on a regular basis.


Unit is killing it's self right now with this. There are many other options and they don't charge per an install.

Even if they don't charge for a first install, there really is not reason for a charge per an install. Ad what will they do if the developer shuts down? Claim ownership of the game or fine someone else to charge? No, the whole thing beyond ridiculous.

And what about modded games? People tend to uninstall, remove all files and reinstall those games to fix issues with mods.

And I know I have several games I reinstall every now and them, play for a while, then remove. I've installed Battletech five times since I got it.

I agree with install charges being a scummy thing to do. I was working on a possible game, but now will look into a different engine. Godot seems like it will work and is 100% royalty free, with no install charge.

This ranks right up there with install limits on games that developer have tried in the past. Didn't work for them, I doubt it will work out for Unity either.

From what they clarified it only would be in effect for the FIRST install of a game, so once user X installs a game, they won't be charged ever again for that license. Still think its not a good model and will be hard to manage, but its slightly better then the original confusion from it

[Spawn of Totoro]

Първоначално публикувано от brian9824:

From what they clarified it only would be in effect for the FIRST install of a game, so once user X installs a game, they won't be charged ever again for that license. Still think its not a good model and will be hard to manage, but its slightly better then the original confusion from it

https://kotaku.com/unity-engine-subscription-cost-unreal-godot-indie-dev-1850831032

That is what I have read so far. Can you link to where it states that it will only be for the first install?

And, honestly, even then, there shouldn't really be a fee for it.

https://www.truetrophies.com/n24198/sony-unity-pricing-changes

This one even talks about how it may effect subscription services.

And going by their FAQ:
https://unity.com/pricing-updates

"How is Unity collecting the number of installs?

We leverage our own proprietary data model and will provide estimates of the number of times the runtime is distributed for a given project – this estimate will cover an invoice for all platforms."

"What is the Unity Runtime Fee?

We are introducing a Unity Runtime Fee that applies to certain Unity subscription plans based on per-game installs across any Unity-supported game platform. Creators only pay once per download."

[IFIYGD]

Първоначално публикувано от brian9824:

From what they clarified it only would be in effect for the FIRST install of a game, so once user X installs a game, they won't be charged ever again for that license. Still think its not a good model and will be hard to manage, but its slightly better then the original confusion from it

It's first install of a game (or app) on a device. So- you have the game on Steam and get a Steam Deck and install it there- 2 installs. Got a new laptop? Another install there. Bought a new gaming desktop? New install there when you install the game on your new rig.
No idea how it will work with NVIDIA GeForce Now, or Internet Gaming Cafes, but for mobile games- they tend to have higher download and install rates than PC and console games, and people with money who like to have the newest iPhone (which seems to release every 6-12 months)- new install each time you get a new phone or tablet.
It doesn't track the license- it tracks the install of the Unity Runtime. So- what happens if the developer updates the engine and the runtime updates? Charge for install for each runtime update as well?

It's a complete mess, and Unity is *not* being clear on exactly how it will work- different devs and publishers are getting different answers, different gaming journos and magazines are getting different answers. So- a lot of what we are seeing online right now is outdated info already, or unintentional misinformation, or just Unity not telling it's own people exactly how it is supposed to work, with the people at the top changing their answers on the fly, so the answer they gave their support personnel is outdated 5 minutes after they've given it.

Meanwhile the top brass at Epic/UnReal Engine are rubbing their hands gleefully, planning on what new model of yacht they are going to buy.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Първоначално публикувано от IFIYGD:

It doesn't track the license- it tracks the install of the Unity Runtime. So- what happens if the developer updates the engine and the runtime updates? Charge for install for each runtime update as well?

To add a bit more:
What happens if you format and reinstall? What happens if you uninstall and reinstall? If you uninstall and run CClean to clean the registry, then reinstall?

Way too many questions for such a system to be viable or reliable enough to charge for.

Like you said, a complete mess.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Първоначално публикувано от Spawn of Totoro:

"Creators only pay once per download."

Wow, not even have to pay more than once per download?

[Spawn of Totoro]

Първоначално публикувано от Muppet among Puppets:

Първоначално публикувано от Spawn of Totoro:

"Creators only pay once per download."

Wow, not even have to pay more than once per download?

So if you uninstall and latter redownload the game, the developer would have to pay twice.

Each download/install (they seem to use the term interchangeably in the FAQ) would cost the developer .07 for some markets and .15 for others AND .01 for yet another market segment, going by example they have given.

"How is the Unity Runtime Fee calculated?

If a game or app meets the minimum thresholds for eligibility, the Unity Runtime Fee will be calculated based on the applicable rate (depending on the number of installs, the country of installs, and the user’s Unity plan) multiplied by the number of eligible installs.

The fee schedule for Unity Pro and Unity Enterprise provides tiered rates with volume discounts for higher numbers of installs. For a game with a high number of installs spanning more than one tier, the first volume tier will be charged at the first per-install rate, and the second volume tier at the next rate, and so on.

For example, let’s look at a hypothetical game made by a team using Unity Pro with the following revenue and install numbers:
Revenue from last 12 months - $2M USD
Lifetime installs - 5M

The Unity Runtime Fee will apply to this game, as it surpasses the $1M revenue and 1M lifetime install thresholds for Unity Pro. Let’s look at the game’s installs from the last month:
Prior month installs (Standard fee countries) - 200K
Prior month installs (Emerging market fee countries) - 100K

The fee for install activity is $23.5K USD, calculated as follows:
(100K x $0.15 (first tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.075 (second tier for standard fee countries)) + (100K x $0.01 (fee for emerging market countries)) = $23.5K USD"

[Hobbit XIII]

It's so obvious Elon Musk has bought them and will be destroying it so he can make his own super thing and will force everybody into using his product and then will cackle with glee when he sabotages it and wipes billions from the stock markets across the globe.
You know the thing he does with everything simply because he can.

[Muppet among Puppets]

It sounds like a security hole.
To fix this,
one day you install your new game. And it says, "can not install, you need to wait before developer pays for the next 100 installs. Try again in a month or so."

[Tito Shivan]

Първоначално публикувано от Spawn of Totoro:

[
That is what I have read so far. Can you link to where it states that it will only be for the first install?

I got it through Twitter:
https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten

After initially telling Axios earlier Tuesday that a player installing a game, deleting it and installing it again would result in multiple fees, Unity'sWhitten told Axios that the company would actually only charge for an initial installation. (A spokesperson told Axios that Unity had "regrouped" to discuss the issue.)

He hoped this would allay fears of "install-bombing," where an angry user could keep deleting and re-installing a game to rack up fees to punish a developer.
But an extra fee will be charged if a user installs a game on a second device, say a Steam Deck after installing a game on a PC.

It seems they've also scrapped the fees on demos after the initial stink.

Also Game pass fees would be charged to Microsoft. That's gonna be loads of fun.

IMO This is going to blow a stink like a firecracker on a toilet.

Първоначално публикувано от Spawn of Totoro:

To add a bit more:
What happens if you format and reinstall? What happens if you uninstall and reinstall? If you uninstall and run CClean to clean the registry, then reinstall?

Way too many questions for such a system to be viable or reliable enough to charge for.

Like you said, a complete mess.