My 2 Cents on the Windows 7 Debacle

[SeriousWays]

I am starting this discussion for the simple reason of tracktion. The more discussions there are on the matter and the more active they are, the higher the chance Valve actually pays attention to Windows 7 users and decides to figure out some compromise.

I am using Windows 7 and all of the games in my Steam library run on it without any problem. Even newer post 2020 titles.

My refusal to install a newer version of the WIndows OS is based on the fact that newer Microsoft -made operating systems are:
1. Bloatware filled with ads.
2. They constantly enforce updates, many of which have broken functionalities on the OS and have needed subsequent updates to fix.
3. Near unavoidable telemetry and constant flow of information between MS servers and the OS on which I have little to no say.

Why not migrate to Linux, Valve offers complete support for it, including Proton?

-> How long will it be before Valve decide that it is not worth pouring resources into an OS that less than 10% of the domestic computers use. Realistically looking at it, almost an insignificant part of Steam's users use Linux as much as Win 7.
-> Besides that, I have a ton of specialized softaware for which there is little to no support on Linux.

Argument: Microsoft has stopped its support for Win 7, Valve should hold no responsibility towars its users.

-> My computer's videocard has stopped receiving driver updates since somewhere around 2018. It still works perfectly, runs all of the games it is capable of running, and I have zero complaints from it. Should Steam automatically block me from using their platform just because a third party (e.g. the Graphics Card vendor) has decided to conclude its support for their product? Wheter they support a certain system or not is solely the decision of Valve, that is why I have created this thread here and not on Microsoft's forums. I am quite thankful to Valve for supporting my OS for so long, and they have done it because they have decided so. Not because Microsoft told them to.


Argument: Newer Windows OS's offer better security.

-> Whether Microsoft, or a third party spies on me, it is all the same since in both cases, my privacy has been compromised.

Question: Newer versions of Chromium do not run on older Windows versions. Do you expect a corporation to compromise its clients' security just to keep running on a depricated OS?

-> No. I completely understand that technoogicall progress cannot be compromised over a few late adoptors. I do not ask for the Steam official client to suffer in any way.

Question: Then what do you want?

-> I do not mind going on Steam's site and buying games from there. I just want to be given a method to run them. Steam currently runs on WIn7, so it is quite possible to achieve this. Either through a separate client, or some type of a legacy launcher which allows me to download and play the games I have purchased, activate games through product codes I have bought from third-party vendors such as Fanatical, etc, and to have multiplayer functionality on the games I have purchased.


I do not ask for mod integration, community integration, or any other features which the Steam client currently or will in future support. Just the ability to run the products I have purchased as I am currently able to run them.

As my position is stated, I consider it to be quite reasonable. I also believe that a billion-dollar corporation, which runs the biggest videogame digital marketplace to date, can afford the manhours to fulfill them. It's not like they are currently busy with HL3 anyway.

Have a good, safe, and productive day!

[Komarimaru]

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.
4. Plenty of other threads discussing this, debunking all your reasons.

[BJWyler]

SeriousWays původně napsal:

I am starting this discussion for the simple reason of tracktion. The more discussions there are on the matter and the more active they are, the higher the chance Valve actually pays attention to Windows 7 users and decides to figure out some compromise.

It didn't matter, nor did it change anything when it happened to Windows 98.
It didn't matter and it didn't change anything when it happened to Windows 2000.
It didn't matter and it didn't change anything when it happened to Windows Me.
It didn't matter and it didn't change anything when it happened to Windows XP.
It didn't matter and it didn't change anything when it happened to Windows Vista.

Why would you think it will matter now? Especially when CEF is involved this time around as a hard wall. Valve just didn't suddenly decide to go this route on a whim. This was planned, and it was prepared for long before the announcement was made. This is their chosen course with the platform. A handful of posts in the forum are not going to change the direction of the ship at this point.

[bidulless]

Hello

Just take time and read it ,)

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/05/26/delivering-delightful-performance-for-more-than-one-billion-users-worldwide/

Making PCs more sustainable with our new Energy Recommendations and Carbon-Aware Windows Update. We see a 6% average reduction in energy consumption for the users who use the recommended energy settings

And so on

https://www.techspot.com/news/98699-microsoft-automatically-upgrade-windows-10-21h2-users-after.html

[Start_Running]

It's a safe bet Steam will be keeping linux around for a while. Heck,, they more than any company have been pushing the relevance of linux. The fact that their hardware like the Steamdeck is Linux based as well.. yeah they're not moving away from that anytime soon.

[Ogami]

None of your wishes will happen.
Valve never did this in the past and they will not start now.
End of the year you have 4 options:

1. Upgrade to Win 10/11
2. Switch to Linux
3. Download your games and switch to permanent "Steam Offline" mode
4. Stop using Steam


No matter how many threads about this topic will be created, no matter how many from your perspective "reasonable" arguments you bring up, Valve DOES NOT CARE.
They made this decision months ago, informed the users about it and thats it.
That how VALVE always operates and always has operated in the past.
With each new change that was not liked by a part of the community.
They just DONT CARE.

Windows 7 users on Steam are only about 1% and the large majority of those users will switch before the end of the year.
VALVE does not care at all if a few thousand users will stop using Steam because of this.
They have 200k new account registrations EACH month.

That are just the cold facts.

[Crazy Tiger]

SeriousWays původně napsal:

The more discussions there are on the matter and the more active they are, the higher the chance Valve actually pays attention to Windows 7 users and decides to figure out some compromise.

Lol, no. Valve doesn't pay attention to any of these threads. It doesn't matter how much noise people make in the upcoming months, it won't change what will happen.

The only avenue that people have to try and get something akin a legacy launcher is to try the SSA in courts. But nobody is actually willing to do so.

[ShelLuser]

SeriousWays původně napsal:

The more discussions there are on the matter and the more active they are, the higher the chance Valve actually pays attention to Windows 7 users and decides to figure out some compromise.

As if any sane company would seriously consider putting themselves at risk of being held financially responsible for acts of severe neclegence with regards to online security.

In the end pointless arguments like these boil down to some very simple facts:

1) The world doesn't revolve around you.
2) Considering the massive amounts of scamming and phising going on... you'd have to be pretty ignorant, or clueless, if you'd willingly put yourself at a higher risk of becoming a victim of some of these practices.
3) There is nothing to compromise. If you insist on using a steam engine to power your car and other utilities then fine enough, just don't throw a tantrum when you come to realize that no gas station is going to sell you any cokes to power your thingamagick. We moved on.

[Muppet among Puppets]

SeriousWays původně napsal:

My refusal to install a newer version of the WIndows OS is based on the fact that newer Microsoft -made operating systems are:
1. Bloatware filled with ads.
2. They constantly enforce updates, many of which have broken functionalities on the OS and have needed subsequent updates to fix.
3. Near unavoidable telemetry and constant flow of information between MS servers and the OS on which I have little to no say.

1) Its a normal OS here. No ads, no bloat.
2) Updates were every 1,5 years. Nothing broke here.
3) Win 7 and 10 are from the same company. I make settings, and its a windows.

[⚜Z3⚜ eris in cybersamsara]

Low linux desktop coverage can only be solved when people stop complaining about said low desktop coverage and start using linux

[bidulless]

Komarimaru původně napsal:

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.
4. Plenty of other threads discussing this, debunking all your reasons.

1 not true ? boated filled with ads ?
Terms are a bit exagerated and exessiv but true unfortunately unless you can explain us why there is an option in privacy and security :
let show apps show me personalized ADS by using my ADVERTISING ID
and so on ....
And what we call bloat is stuff installed during setup that we do not need ; cartonna, microsoft store ,etc ...
Damn i want an OS not a microsft "ecosystem" that glorify microsoft products.

2 not true ?
How can you explain and justify that microsoft will force update 22h22 on all windows 10 ? Don't you called that if not "FORCED" update ?
https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-10/microsoft-will-force-all-windows-10-users-to-upgrade-to-version-22h2-next-month

3. not true ?

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/05/26/delivering-delightful-performance-for-more-than-one-billion-users-worldwide/
how do you think theses numbers are comming from ? from volonteers that are willing to send some microsft some data for analysis purpose ?
Diagnostic data by the numbers: (1) Over 2.5 million cabs per day; (2) over 12 million performance traces per year; (3) over 70.4 billion scenario performance data points per year.
I do not said all these is bad or good, in fact in some case telemetry can be really usefull but stop allways defending microsoft , it's so absurd and full of non sens and bs
For exemple , i approuve it when it come to help us in this way
Making PCs more sustainable with our new Energy Recommendations and Carbon-Aware Windows Update. We see a 6% average reduction in energy consumption for the users who use the recommended energy settings.

So please be more objectitve because it's not been objectiv that writing this kind of story telling.

All things said need to be more nuanced if you really want to debunk what others are saying and not to start with an unequivocal part as your proved to be .

[lailaamell]

bidulless původně napsal:

Komarimaru původně napsal:

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.
4. Plenty of other threads discussing this, debunking all your reasons.

1 not true ? boated filled with ads ?
Terms are a bit exagerated and exessiv but true unfortunately unless you can explain us why there is an option in privacy and security :
let show apps show me personalized ADS by using my ADVERTISING ID
and so on ....
And what we call bloat is stuff installed during setup that we do not need ; cartonna, microsoft store ,etc ...
Damn i want an OS not a microsft "ecosystem" that glorify microsoft products.

2 not true ?
How can you explain and justify that microsoft will force update 22h22 on all windows 10 ? Don't you called that if not "FORCED" update ?
https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-10/microsoft-will-force-all-windows-10-users-to-upgrade-to-version-22h2-next-month

3. not true ?

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/05/26/delivering-delightful-performance-for-more-than-one-billion-users-worldwide/
how do you think theses numbers are comming from ? from volonteers that are willing to send some microsft some data for analysis purpose ?
Diagnostic data by the numbers: (1) Over 2.5 million cabs per day; (2) over 12 million performance traces per year; (3) over 70.4 billion scenario performance data points per year.
I do not said all these is bad or good, in fact in some case telemetry can be really usefull but stop allways defending microsoft , it's so absurd and full of non send and bs
For exemple , i approuve it when it come to help us in this way
Making PCs more sustainable with our new Energy Recommendations and Carbon-Aware Windows Update. We see a 6% average reduction in energy consumption for the users who use the recommended energy settings.

So please be more objectitve because it's not been objectiv that writing this kind of story telling.

All things said need to be more nuanced if you really want to debunk what others are saying and not to start with an unequivocal part as your proved to be .

Wanna know whats funny i used win 10 for years and havent seen a single ad on it . And win 11 for some months same thing not seen any ads or recommendations

[Bee🐝]

Sweet…another carbon copy of a thread we already have 30 of…

Again, one active Megathread of Doom, with hundreds of pages, is far better than 373 tiny threads all repeating the same talking points.

(We had one really great thread about this - people came up with ideas for the future and figured out how to still play their games…no denial or scaremongering. That one was far too positive though.)

[.EteRnal.]

The whole telemetry argument is baseless. OOTB most of it can be turned off and if you care about it that much it is not hard to get an enterprise edition license and turn ALL of it off with the "Allow Telemetry" GPO.

[bidulless]

.EteRnal. původně napsal:

The whole telemetry argument is baseless. OOTB most of it can be turned off and if you care about it that much it is not hard to get an enterprise edition license and turn ALL of it off with the "Allow Telemetry" GPO.

Hello

I guess there is one things that both side really doesn't understand : if you want services and by services i put anything in this box like a better windows responsiveness, a lower energy consumption from my comp, a reminder for my appointement, or the weather it will be today, you need telemetry for all this things that will make your life easier....
But all have a cost on your privacy despite it's been anonimyzed and can be used for business purpose of anything else..

It's not my personnal data which have some value but the mass data collected. So just stay vigilent

[Komarimaru]

bidulless původně napsal:

Komarimaru původně napsal:

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.
4. Plenty of other threads discussing this, debunking all your reasons.

1 not true ? boated filled with ads ?
Terms are a bit exagerated and exessiv but true unfortunately unless you can explain us why there is an option in privacy and security :
let show apps show me personalized ADS by using my ADVERTISING ID
and so on ....
And what we call bloat is stuff installed during setup that we do not need ; cartonna, microsoft store ,etc ...
Damn i want an OS not a microsft "ecosystem" that glorify microsoft products.

2 not true ?
How can you explain and justify that microsoft will force update 22h22 on all windows 10 ? Don't you called that if not "FORCED" update ?
https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-10/microsoft-will-force-all-windows-10-users-to-upgrade-to-version-22h2-next-month

3. not true ?

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/05/26/delivering-delightful-performance-for-more-than-one-billion-users-worldwide/
how do you think theses numbers are comming from ? from volonteers that are willing to send some microsft some data for analysis purpose ?
Diagnostic data by the numbers: (1) Over 2.5 million cabs per day; (2) over 12 million performance traces per year; (3) over 70.4 billion scenario performance data points per year.
I do not said all these is bad or good, in fact in some case telemetry can be really usefull but stop allways defending microsoft , it's so absurd and full of non sens and bs
For exemple , i approuve it when it come to help us in this way
Making PCs more sustainable with our new Energy Recommendations and Carbon-Aware Windows Update. We see a 6% average reduction in energy consumption for the users who use the recommended energy settings.

So please be more objectitve because it's not been objectiv that writing this kind of story telling.

All things said need to be more nuanced if you really want to debunk what others are saying and not to start with an unequivocal part as your proved to be .

1. You're tell untruths, plain and simple. Straight up fallacies. The only ads are the little applications from the Microsoft Store, that you can disable in seconds. Like Candy Crush etc, and fully remove them as well. So again, Not true, and you're also spreading misinformation.

2. You can still disable all updated in Windows 10, there's many methods to do so actually. But why you'd want to disable 22H2 would boggle me anyway, but you still can fully control what is installed. So again... Not True.

3. You can remove the telemetry if you wish. Quite easily actually, unlike Windows 7 which requires a custom slipstream ISO/USB install. So again, Not True.

So, per normal, you're wrong yet again in your posts, typical as of late. You admit you don't understand how things are, yet seem so adamant to embarrass yourself by showing evidence that is defunct and shows nothing. Bravo...