_oBSOLEte_ 2023 年 5 月 17 日 上午 9:57
3
Turns out you can't call out nazis on Steam forums
Got banned from Darktide's Steam forum discussion because I described a profile there as "vaguely nazi". Profile name is a german name with a german cross, profile pic is a nazi using a flamethrower. Steam badge is an icon with SS.

Of course that post was reported by the guy and his friends, then promptly removed by a bot/mod.

I've discussed the ban reason with steam support. Here is the closing response of my ticket.



"Hello,

The "objectionable content" is you accusing another user of being a Nazi. If you see another user posting rule-breaking content or with concerning profile content you believe should be brought to our attention, you should report this content rather than engaging with it or publicly shaming another user.

To do this, I encourage you to use our official reporting feature - your account will remain anonymous during this process:
Reporting Content

We don't provide details regarding our moderation decisions, but you will receive a Steam notification if action is taken on behalf of one of your reports.

Because we have provided all the information we have for your issue I'm closing this help request. If you have an unrelated issue please open a new help request and we will be happy to help.

Best Regards,
Wallace"



I still dont think I publicly shamed or accused anyone of anything. Obvious nazi is obvious, I also dont understand why they didn't even acknowledged that the profile was using nazi imagery, they just repeated the same "I encourage you to use the reporting feature" like bots while being completely oblivious that I was reporting it.

Your thoughts?

Edit : Selected "answer" below because it made me lol.
最後修改者:_oBSOLEte_; 2023 年 5 月 17 日 上午 11:59
引用自 Schrobes
That specific party during that specific time appropriated different things into their regime. The swastika and iron cross are two of them, among many others i am sure. I'm not sure about the lightning bolts. Their attire, while maybe unique with all the added trinkets, was probably appropriated, as well. The fashion of the time? It is more than likely that all the ideas you have on what a "nazi" looks like is fundamentally exaggerated fiction made by media.

You are a victim of media propaganda.

The Iron Cross is not a hate symbol. The Swastika was appropriated from the Chinese symbol of peace or something, just oriented differently. Yet it is the exact same thing. I still see people throwing fits about it, even when it is oriented in the Chinese expression. The trench coats were fashion of the time. Etc Etc.

It would also behoove you to accept that not everyone looks at that combination as purely nazism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI&ab_channel=BrowserBallett
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目前顯示第 61-75 則留言,共 273
ZZZZZ 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 8:40 
I reported multiple groups and profiles where they clearly stated they are nazis.. the actual word nazi/nationalsocialism was in the description and they didnt get banned.. seems they are allowed on steam, I mean it doesnt violate the law so maybe valve doesnt care
最後修改者:ZZZZZ; 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 8:41
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 9:02 
引用自 CaptainG
I reported multiple groups and profiles where they clearly stated they are nazis.. the actual word nazi/nationalsocialism was in the description and they didnt get banned.. seems they are allowed on steam, I mean it doesnt violate the law so maybe valve doesnt care


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.
( ( < < <🤖> > > ) ) 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 9:05 
引用自 SlowMango
引用自 CaptainG
I reported multiple groups and profiles where they clearly stated they are nazis.. the actual word nazi/nationalsocialism was in the description and they didnt get banned.. seems they are allowed on steam, I mean it doesnt violate the law so maybe valve doesnt care


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

the symbolism is being banned in Australia
Brian9824 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 9:09 
引用自 ragefifty50
引用自 SlowMango


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

the symbolism is being banned in Australia

Yeah that will be a stickier situation for Steam. They aren't an Australian company and the servers aren't hosted there.

So will be interesting to see how Australia trys to handle that with sites that aren't hosted in their jurisdiction. .
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 9:13 
引用自 ragefifty50
引用自 SlowMango


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

the symbolism is being banned in Australia


They are also banned in Germany.

Users under that jurisdiction are beholden to that law. Someone outside of that isn't.
Nx Machina 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 10:43 
引用自 TDPS
You know who else were real big on "following the rules"?

"Civility" and "politeness" have always been tools of the oppressive status quo. It's always been the primary framework of "well meaning" but ultimately appeasing people. You will notice all of these polite people have very impolite attitudes to progressive ideals. You will notice all of these "let's keep politics out of gaming" people have exactly one political view when it comes to the rights and status of the oppressed.

Don't play their game. Don't accept their framing. Don't accept the reactionary's notion of "neutrality."

You will take your licks with moderation, but it is always better to be on the side of anti-fascism. There are plenty of times where moderation will decide to do nothing about hate speech until someone makes a stink about it. Choose your battles, but don't fail to recognize the call to action as needed.

We live in a time of rising fascism. Your voice is always a valuable contribution in the struggle. No matter how many times the bootlickers claim otherwise, abiding by the rules of a capital motivated power structure is not worth the cost to your soul. Their shame is our pride.

Good job and keep up the good fight!

Odd you choose to use the term:

引用自 TDPS
people have exactly one political view when it comes to the rights and status of the oppressed.

While airing your own political view with:

引用自 TDPS
We live in a time of rising fascism. Your voice is always a valuable contribution in the struggle. No matter how many times the bootlickers claim otherwise, abiding by the rules of a capital motivated power structure is not worth the cost to your soul. Their shame is our pride.
最後修改者:Nx Machina; 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 10:45
_oBSOLEte_ 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 10:56 
引用自 SlowMango
引用自 CaptainG
I reported multiple groups and profiles where they clearly stated they are nazis.. the actual word nazi/nationalsocialism was in the description and they didnt get banned.. seems they are allowed on steam, I mean it doesnt violate the law so maybe valve doesnt care


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

Maybe using a flamethrower isn't violent enough.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 10:58 
引用自 M4st0d0n
引用自 SlowMango


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

Maybe using a flamethrower isn't violent enough.


Correct.

Now, if the icon was of a flamethrower being used on people, then it would break the rules. A picture of someone just using the flamethrower does not.
Mad Scientist 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 11:01 
引用自 M4st0d0n
引用自 SlowMango


If they aren't breaking any rules, then Valve won't remove them.

Just having the symbolism and iconography isn't rule breaking on it's own unless there is violent content in the media uploaded.

Maybe using a flamethrower isn't violent enough.
It would have to violate the rules; just a weapon or weapon being used present in the avatar doesn't violate the rules. Now if it depicted a horrible war crime, that's another story.
Tito Shivan 2023 年 5 月 18 日 上午 11:16 
引用自 CaptainG
I reported multiple groups and profiles where they clearly stated they are nazis.. the actual word nazi/nationalsocialism was in the description and they didnt get banned..
You don't tell how long ago that was, but for the most part steam group reports have always taken a long time to be dealt with.
_oBSOLEte_ 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 12:17 
引用自 SlowMango
引用自 M4st0d0n

Maybe using a flamethrower isn't violent enough.


Correct.

Now, if the icon was of a flamethrower being used on people, then it would break the rules. A picture of someone just using the flamethrower does not.

Kinda hard to distinct people with all this fire.
TurtleShroom 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 12:53 
The Iron Cross is not now, nor has it ever been, a Nazi symbol.

THE MODERN GERMAN MILITARY STILL USES IT.[foreignpolicy.com] The Iron Cross is still in use in Germany to this day, and Germany awards its soldiers and citizens with it. They have done so since 1813 AD.

The original post is correct: that is media propaganda. If the dude had a swastika, that'd be taken down. SS symbology is a different matter altogether and is far more diverse.

For example, one SS symbol has intercrossed keys, and another has one key. Keys were used by the SS[en.wikipedia.org] AND were used by the United Kingdom[en.wikipedia.org].

The SS used lightning bolts, but so does the USA (to this day).

Therefore, the rules Valve enforces are clear: swastikas are illegal Nazi imagery.

Lightning bolts, keys, and the Iron Cross are imagery predating Hitler, some dating back CENTURIES.


最後修改者:TurtleShroom; 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 12:56
TurtleShroom 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 1:02 
I always liked how anarchic Steam used to be, and I wish that would come back.

Of course, in my opinion, Valve should only take action on speech on its platform when a person is actively calling for violence or harm to a group, user, or so on. If it's not a criminal act, an advocation of criminality, or obscenity, I don't think Valve has any business messing with it.
Likewise, Valve has a strict policy against any insults directed at a user as a person. This is also good.

Valve should restrict its moderation to incivility, like personal insults. It should actively remove crimes, like organizing thefts or harm to others, or death threats, and so on. It should remove terroristic threats, terrorist recruiting (e.g. ISIL, Antifa, Atomwaffen, KKK, etc.) threads, and those who advocate violence. RL videos of RL gore, and should restrict pornography to depictions of consenting adults, and that can only be seen with age verification.

Valve should actively remove any call to cause harm or violence to any person, group, demographic, or people. Valve should remove slurs for races, people, groups, and so on.

A person who simply is dumb enough to actually admire Nazi Germany should not be banned. Now, if he starts posting that a demographic he doesn't like should be harmed, or shoots slurs against groups, or organizes some sort of attack online or off through Steam, then both Valve and the police should be involved. Likewise, a person that thinks RL genocide is good should be banned immediately.

Political speech should be uncensored to the farthest possible reaches of the law.
最後修改者:TurtleShroom; 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 1:04
Weimu 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 1:06 
引用自 TurtleShroom
The Iron Cross is not now, nor has it ever been, a Nazi symbol.

THE MODERN GERMAN MILITARY STILL USES IT.[foreignpolicy.com] The Iron Cross is still in use in Germany to this day, and Germany awards its soldiers and citizens with it. They have done so since 1813 AD.

The original post is correct: that is media propaganda. If the dude had a swastika, that'd be taken down. SS symbology is a different matter altogether and is far more diverse.

For example, one SS symbol has intercrossed keys, and another has one key. Keys were used by the SS[en.wikipedia.org] AND were used by the United Kingdom[en.wikipedia.org].

The SS used lightning bolts, but so does the USA (to this day).

Therefore, the rules Valve enforces are clear: swastikas are illegal Nazi imagery.

Lightning bolts, keys, and the Iron Cross are imagery predating Hitler, some dating back CENTURIES.
your claim that the iron cross was "never" a nazi symbol is contradicted by the article you yourself posted. it was withdrawn after ww2 and wasn't reinstated until recently. hmm...i wonder why that was?

but yes. you're right, on their own these symbols have several different meanings and represent different things. when you put them all together, however, it's really hard to argue that they have any other intent than to imitate the appearance of a nazi
kingjames488 2023 年 5 月 18 日 下午 1:09 
at the ironic risk of being banned I'll just point out that backseat moderation is one of the things that's against the rules...

ultimately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkMgAzpcI8k
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張貼日期: 2023 年 5 月 17 日 上午 9:57
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