Taking away OS support, Takes away our games. Dont do it!

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SnakeWildlife 2023年3月29日 6時31分

Taking away OS support, Takes away our games. Dont do it!

This move is abhorrent and out of touch with Steams users, let alone the LEGAL implications.

If you take away support for these operating systems, you take away games which are only compatible with those operating systems, from my library. Im a retro gamer so i play a LOT of old games which are incompatible with Windows 10 and above.

@Gabe Newell, please come to your senses on this one, this is the WRONG WAY to enhance the Steam Client.

Are you going to refund all the games in my library which are for older operating systems, or is your plan simply to pluck away my ability to play the games iv paid for? This cannot be legal. It is Sabotage.

Please stop the *Compatability Catastrophe* that is going to happen in 2024. I never wanted to downgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10, i was forced by DirectX discontinuation (even though 7 should have no problems supporting modern directx and games) and that has meant a lot of my library doesnt work.

By continuing to sell games that will not work , in most western nations this counts as a Sale of Defective Goods, which is illegal. When my working games are made non-functional by you, Microsoft or Google, this is a Sabotage of Goods and a breach of the Consumer Rights Act and Sale of Goods Act.

Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up because i have always been on the side of Valve...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you either owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased, or you stop this AWFUL plan to discontinue OS support. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move. There are so many things which Proton will never be able to fix.

This is the worst possible thing i could ever see Valve/Gabe going ahead with...so please, you have to undo this terrible decision whilst you still can. It's not right.

You are pushing people into believing physical copies of games are the only way to keep their games...but because of Securom we cant even do that. When you make it inconvenient for us to keep the games we have purchased, you may be forcing people into the piracy route, or as they may see it "Rightful reclamation of a purchased game".

If this goes ahead, i and many others won't have any choice, we will be shoved forcefully off of Steam in order to preserve compatability by any means necassary, and go download the games we purchased, i personally will go back to Physical storage, because that will be the only thing i can trust. The Disk/Disc/Cartridge/Drive In MY physical possession and in MY hand seems to be the only thing i can trust. *Physical copy, that i own and you cant steal away.*

VALVE, GABE, Please dont do this. Turn around.

Many of us have laid our full trust, and we have laid our massive game libraries, in you ....and this is how you're going to behave?
Do you believe that old games have no purpose to exist at all and you should disable our ownership of them by Compatability Disabling?
*That is not for you to decide!*
These games are NOT breaking because they are faulty. YOU are purposefully taking actions which lead to my games no longer working.
*YOU ARE DAMAGING MY GOODS*, which again, is ILLEGAL.

Please Gabe, i hope you're reading this....we need you to act, to change this around and find a solution! We need you to respond! Please dont do this!

I guess if you're going ahead with this, i should just refund this steam deck. If i cant trust you, i dont want it in my hands.

Now that i have my plea out there....lets talk about the Future.
Just drop Google and Microsoft dependancy with your software, GO FULL OPEN SOURCE with your Browser. Here's an idea:

Contact or even Hire the staff at Firefox instead, this is Steams opportunity to become peoples main internet explorer, and NOT have to disable compatabilities.

Degoogle yourself. Demicrosoft yourself. Keep compatability maximized. Rip out what isnt Valve's, and hire people who can replace what you lost. Everybodies happy, and you gain a massive market share of adrev that can be generated from becoming a prime Browser competitor in the field.

You have a Window here to fix everybodies worries....and GAIN massively from it. Dont shutdown OS support and do the possibly WORST thing you could ever do in 2024.

最近の変更はSnakeWildlifeが行いました; 2023年4月29日 17時18分

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31-45 / 387 のコメントを表示

Komarimaru 2023年3月29日 8時51分

punchobastardo の投稿を引用：
Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：
That's a download service, for starters.
It's like saying Steams H/W survey does nefarious things when it just collects relevant data. The real money in data is often browser searches & social media use, which is why you should be aware of what not to use.

I always use other people to see what goes wrong in newer versions, it's a habit I got from where I worked since I know some updates can brick things, temporarily or permanently.

You mean the Trusted Platform Module? That's more of a focus for Servers and Win11. It doesn't affect the ability to block network traffic.

You can use software or even networking hardware with software control to block entire domains from being able to communicate to or from your system, I do that all the time to save headaches especially for inconveniently timed updates so critical systems remain online without forced reboots when unoccupied.

Make sure wherever you're getting your information from, that it's not some non-credible youtuber.

sigh...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2022/01/04/ces-2022-chip-to-cloud-security-pluton-powered-windows-11-pcs-are-coming/

I know you think you're trying to get a win with that link, but they are right. Pluton is TPM. Specifically Firmware TPM, just updated more frequently from Microsoft instead of the Motherboard Manufacturers.

It's even existed since the Xbox one, inside the consoles. So ya...

Hate to do that, but... They are right, it's TPM...

#31

AmsterdamHeavy 2023年3月29日 8時52分

punchobastardo の投稿を引用：
Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：
That's a download service, for starters.
It's like saying Steams H/W survey does nefarious things when it just collects relevant data. The real money in data is often browser searches & social media use, which is why you should be aware of what not to use.

I always use other people to see what goes wrong in newer versions, it's a habit I got from where I worked since I know some updates can brick things, temporarily or permanently.

You mean the Trusted Platform Module? That's more of a focus for Servers and Win11. It doesn't affect the ability to block network traffic.

You can use software or even networking hardware with software control to block entire domains from being able to communicate to or from your system, I do that all the time to save headaches especially for inconveniently timed updates so critical systems remain online without forced reboots when unoccupied.

Make sure wherever you're getting your information from, that it's not some non-credible youtuber.

sigh...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2022/01/04/ces-2022-chip-to-cloud-security-pluton-powered-windows-11-pcs-are-coming/

Keep flapping those arms, you might take flight eventually.

#32

ShelLuser 2023年3月29日 8時52分

Threads like these are hilarious if you stop to think about it, since they unmistakenly proof that there's just no pleasing or educating people.

I mean... let's say Steam caves and supports Windows 7 for 5 more years. How long before people will start their complaints about them being hacked (for real this time!) and when you then ask 'm about it it turns out... oh... they were still using an ancient OS that hasn't seen any security updates in several years now. Gee whiz, I wonder how the bad guys managed to get in

And the reason I say that this is hilarious is because... well... most online banks will also refuse you service if you happen to be using Windows 7. But meh, who cares about paying rent! No, not being able to run the Steam client, that's the real problem!

最近の変更はShelLuserが行いました; 2023年3月29日 8時52分

#33

Mad Scientist 2023年3月29日 8時54分

punchobastardo の投稿を引用：
sigh...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2022/01/04/ces-2022-chip-to-cloud-security-pluton-powered-windows-11-pcs-are-coming/

Still TPM. Still doesn't affect the usage of Steam nor blocking traffic manually. Even the MS site notes it as TPM, lol.

Komarimaru の投稿を引用：
Hate to do that, but... They are right, it's TPM...

#34

andreasaspenberg575 2023年3月29日 8時59分

3 of the games i listed i have tested in windows 10 without success. castle of illusion crashed my pc, street fighter x tekken crashed my and rise of legends only works in single player. trying to play multiplayer leads to out of sync every time.

#35

Mad Scientist 2023年3月29日 9時03分

andreasaspenberg575 の投稿を引用：
3 of the games i listed i have tested in windows 10 without success. castle of illusion crashed my pc, street fighter x tekken crashed my and rise of legends only works in single player. trying to play multiplayer leads to out of sync every time.

Your reviews seem to have a lot of "broken" for known good games, as well as issues with multiplayer that others play without issues. There's likely some troubleshooting you need to do in order to resolve your issues, because that many games should not be having identical issues.

#36

Nx Machina 2023年3月29日 9時17分

Buckaragua の投稿を引用：
Has onyone read and understand the initial post?
The problem are the games not running on windows 10, but on Windows 7. I think steam is required then to deliver versions that run on windows 10 or refund the purchase price.
Will they do it? I don't think so.
And when you chase them to court? You may win or may win not, but for sure steam will close your account.
That's the problem with platforms like steam. They have godlike power, and in the end the customer is the victim.

I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 a few years ago and every game i have in my library runs on Win 10 including Win 7 games.

Secondly Win 10 has a very good backwards compatibility layer for older Windows versions.

And finally the SSA you agree to when creating an account and installing Steam.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Valve may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time.

You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates (unless to the extent required by applicable law), new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

最近の変更はNx Machinaが行いました; 2023年3月29日 23時04分

#37

xBCxRangers 2023年3月29日 9時19分

brian9824 の投稿を引用：
xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.

It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.

Nothing to look into, the exact same thing has happened REPEATEDLY. Windows 95, 98, and XP. All discontinued, all no longer running with Steam. All perfectly legal and reasonable for Steam to do so.

Your given no guarantees that Steam will continue working on antiquated hardware/software. Nor is any company under any law to support software that the CREATOR of has already abandoned. Steam can't continue supporting software if Microsoft which owns the software won't even support it...

Your free to talk to a lawyer and they will tell you the same thing. Your options are either update your OS or lose access.

Well how are they discontinued, if i still play them? Some if us still play those games dude believe it or not.

#38

Komarimaru 2023年3月29日 9時25分

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
brian9824 の投稿を引用：

Nothing to look into, the exact same thing has happened REPEATEDLY. Windows 95, 98, and XP. All discontinued, all no longer running with Steam. All perfectly legal and reasonable for Steam to do so.

Your given no guarantees that Steam will continue working on antiquated hardware/software. Nor is any company under any law to support software that the CREATOR of has already abandoned. Steam can't continue supporting software if Microsoft which owns the software won't even support it...

Your free to talk to a lawyer and they will tell you the same thing. Your options are either update your OS or lose access.

Well how are they discontinued, if i still play them? Some if us still play those games dude believe it or not.

I think you're misunderstanding yet again. You can still play your games, on an updated OS.

Your OS is just no longer supported. As has happened every time for Steam. They removed access to Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and now Windows 7/8.1.

#39

Qbert ⭐ 2023年3月29日 9時25分

SnakeWildlife の投稿を引用：
I never...NEVER thought Valve would do something this abhorrent and out of touch with its users, let alone the LEGAL implications.

If you take away support for these operating systems, you take away games which are only compatible with those operating systems, from my library. Im a retro gamer so i play a LOT of old games which are incompatible with Windows 10.

@Gabe Newell, please come to your senses on this one, this is the WRONG WAY to enhance the Steam Client.

Are you going to refund all the games in my library which are for older operating systems, or is your plan simply to pluck away my ability to play the games iv paid for? This cannot be legal.

Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move.

This is the worst possible thing i could ever see Valve doing...so please, you have to undo this terrible decision whilst you still can. It's not right.

You are pushing people into believing physical copies of games are the only way to keep their games...but because of Securom we cant even do that. When you make it inconvenient for us to keep the games we have purchased, you may be forcing people into the piracy route, or as they may see it "Rightful reclamation of a purchased game".

VALVE, GABE, Please dont do this. Turn around.

I have laid my full trust, and we have laid our massive game libraries, in you ....and this is how you're going to behave, like old games have no purpose to exist at all? That is not for you to decide!

Please come back to us!

I guess if you're going ahead with this, i should just refund or sell this steam deck. If i cant trust you, i dont want it in my hands.

Just drop Google like you dropped Microsoft, integrate Firefox instead, go full open source.

#40

xBCxRangers 2023年3月29日 9時32分

Komarimaru の投稿を引用：
xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

Never happening, licenses exist for a reason. Any developer can pull their game from you, for any reason they desire. So no, you're not a legal expert in this regard.

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.
No, they are not right, and neither are you. I can't play my MX Spectrum games, unless have a spectrum MX. Thankfully I do, since a collector of consoles and technology.

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.
Next time don't assume. Maybe start reading license terms, and platform terms for use. No one can sue Valve for keeping their platform secure, due to people like you who cannot access their games anymore, due to not updating to a system that can access it.

Okay, one matter i can offer here, is never listen to "forum lawyers". If you were a lawyer, you would not be giving legal advice on a gaming forum.

And as a person who spent about 25 years dealing with lawyers, i can sincerely tell you, you can sue anybody, for generally anything. The question is whether you win, or if the court accepts the case.

All it takes, is have your paralegal draw up the complaint, file it in court, and you are now "suing'. That''s all it is. It's only about money, and who is willing to spend it.

Cases get settled, and non disclosures signed. Meaning, Company A may settle on something, but we'd never know it. And it happens all the time.

And when we can be dealing with 2 or 3 million gamers, there is no one,, certainly not you, that would say a Licensing Agreement only a Lawyer would read or love, is going to shield anyone from anything. That is "their" rules. Not rules and/or laws of our particular countries, or folks Right to Sue in our countries or jurisdictions.

#41

Brian9824 2023年3月29日 9時39分

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
snip

Have fun suing. Fun fact, if you read the SSA steam has the right to terminate your account and revoke your licenses as well. Something they have done VERY rarely in the past and something that the other parties could not get the courts to repeal.

Also a fun fact, i'd look up what counter-suing is, as you are free to try to sue Valve and they are free to counter sue you for the costs of their lawyers to respond to the lawsuit.

So feel free to try it, in the history of the courts no judge has ever ruled against a company for not providing support to an antiquated piece of software that was abandoned and discontinued by its owner.

#42

Komarimaru 2023年3月29日 9時45分

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
Komarimaru の投稿を引用：

Never happening, licenses exist for a reason. Any developer can pull their game from you, for any reason they desire. So no, you're not a legal expert in this regard.

No, they are not right, and neither are you. I can't play my MX Spectrum games, unless have a spectrum MX. Thankfully I do, since a collector of consoles and technology.

Next time don't assume. Maybe start reading license terms, and platform terms for use. No one can sue Valve for keeping their platform secure, due to people like you who cannot access their games anymore, due to not updating to a system that can access it.

Okay, one matter i can offer here, is never listen to "forum lawyers". If you were a lawyer, you would not be giving legal advice on a gaming forum.

And as a person who spent about 25 years dealing with lawyers, i can sincerely tell you, you can sue anybody, for generally anything. The question is whether you win, or if the court accepts the case.

All it takes, is have your paralegal draw up the complaint, file it in court, and you are now "suing'. That''s all it is. It's only about money, and who is willing to spend it.

Cases get settled, and non disclosures signed. Meaning, Company A may settle on something, but we'd never know it. And it happens all the time.

And when we can be dealing with 2 or 3 million gamers, there is no one,, certainly not you, that would say a Licensing Agreement only a Lawyer would read or love, is going to shield anyone from anything. That is "their" rules. Not rules and/or laws of our particular countries, or folks Right to Sue in our countries or jurisdictions.

Again, you're wrong.

For someone who's dealt with lawyers for 25 years, it's not that easy. And even if you could get an attorney dumb enough to take it to court, would be tossed out, no matter how many people were behind it.

You agreed to the Steam Subscriber Agreement. Governments also know it's impossible to keep support for something forever.

Windows 7 is almost 15 years old. Your expectation of continued support for it expired a decade ago.

That would be like going to Sony and complaining your Playstation 3 is no longer supported. For context, PS3 was released in 2006, and ended support in 2017. You can't buy retail parts for it either if it breaks, so any games you have for it are no longer accessible.

You've had far far longer. Doesn't matter if you cannot play your games anymore. You signed to the agreement, and used the service for a long period of time. Don't try and pull the whole. "But I didn't know this could happen!" When it's happened many times before already.

#43

eram 2023年3月29日 9時47分

you can still install windows 10 for free.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

#44

xBCxRangers 2023年3月29日 9時49分

brian9824 の投稿を引用：
xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：
snip

Have fun suing. Fun fact, if you read the SSA steam has the right to terminate your account and revoke your licenses as well. Something they have done VERY rarely in the past and something that the other parties could not get the courts to repeal.

Also a fun fact, i'd look up what counter-suing is, as you are free to try to sue Valve and they are free to counter sue you for the costs of their lawyers to respond to the lawsuit.

So feel free to try it, in the history of the courts no judge has ever ruled against a company for not providing support to an antiquated piece of software that was abandoned and discontinued by its owner.

I did not say i'm suing anyone sir. But that's not to say someone else may, or likely can or will. There is no one on this forum, that can tell us that definitively. That's the point.

And if they try and do that, dismiss them on auto, as fos. And trying to be "their" lawyer, is not helping you either with credibility matters..

#45

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