Petition to have Steam/Valve change wording

[vgifford]

How about if Steam/Valve changes every instance of PURCHASE to RENT when it comes to the Store Page?

Would this be a more honest representation of what we are paying for?
Would that help?

I mean, in the end, if we can't access Steam we OWN nothing right?

[vgifford]

Diposting pertama kali oleh BJWyler:

In the good ole days of physical media, that license was tied to that media. If the media was lost, damaged, or destroyed you weren't entitled to another copy free of charge, you had to pay for it.

I would RATHER do it that way. That way, I could have it installed on my OBSOLETE computer and NOT have to upgrade the operating system to play something that ALREADY works on my operating system.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

No, I''m just Old school. When I bought a game I got a physical CD and I could install and uninstall till my hearts content on my own obsolete machines. BTW: Starcraft on Windows 98 STILL works in 2023. I OWN the cd. Hence I OWN the game.

I recall there being games on disk with activation limits.

There were also games that still required an account, despite being on disk.

Not to mention DRM that stopped the game from ever working, due to the companies shutting down or shutting down their servers. These game's wouldn't even install. Some of them even stopped working after MS released a new OS.

SafeDisc and ScuRom, both come to mind and were part of physical disks.

All parts of the EULA/SSA that was agreed to when installing the game(s).

[vgifford]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tito Shivan:

Purchasing a license ≠ renting.

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

No, I''m just Old school. When I bought a game I got a physical CD and I could install and uninstall till my hearts content on my own obsolete machines. BTW: Starcraft on Windows 98 STILL works in 2023. I OWN the cd. Hence I OWN the game.

Seems you missed Starcraft's EULA last time I linked it to you:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3821910251181369345/?tscn=1682665410#c3821910251185354290

Just speak the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to tell me that I can't install my Starcraft CD on ANY windows 98 machine I own? One at a time? What are you trying to say?

[vgifford]

Diposting pertama kali oleh JVC:

The only real difference between buying a game on a cd-rom 20 years ago and downloading a digital copy now is that you no longer have to worry about the cd-rom or the cd-rom drive breaking.

Legally it was just as much a license back then.

I'd rather have a physical copy that will work with my machine once the "Provider?" decides their done with my operating system.

[vgifford]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ogami:

I looking forward to the OP making threads about this for the rest of the year.
A 250 day temper tantrum by a grown man is something you dont see every day.
:lunar2019coolpig:

I hope so. I really have no temper tantrum, I plan on attempting to upgrade to keep access to my games. I am upset over the fact that I OWN none of them.

[Wolf Knight]

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Diposting pertama kali oleh JVC:

The only real difference between buying a game on a cd-rom 20 years ago and downloading a digital copy now is that you no longer have to worry about the cd-rom or the cd-rom drive breaking.

Legally it was just as much a license back then.

I'd rather have a physical copy that will work with my machine once the "Provider?" decides their done with my operating system.

then put steam in OFFLINE mode permanently and you can keep enjoying your games you have installed.

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Tito Shivan:

Purchasing a license ≠ renting.


Seems you missed Starcraft's EULA last time I linked it to you:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3821910251181369345/?tscn=1682665410#c3821910251185354290

Just speak the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to tell me that I can't install my Starcraft CD on ANY windows 98 machine I own? One at a time? What are you trying to say?

you need to learn to read what you have agreed to before you click I ACCEPT. you accepted and told steam that you are willing to keep upgrading your OS to one that is supported. if you dont want to keep up your part of the deal, then you dont get to keep using steam.

[vgifford]

Diposting pertama kali oleh rawWwRrr:

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

No, I''m just Old school. When I bought a game I got a physical CD and I could install and uninstall till my hearts content on my own obsolete machines. BTW: Starcraft on Windows 98 STILL works in 2023. I OWN the cd. Hence I OWN the game.

You do not own Starcraft. Blizzard owns Starcraft. You own a license to play a copy of that game which you were able to obtain on a CD. The same applies to the games you bought on Steam. The only key differences are that Steam will always acknowledge your ownership of those licenses and you download those copies instead of a CD.

And I can still install Starcraft on my Windows 98 machine 25 years later and it still works fine. What will I have to install on my Windows 8.1 machine in 243 days? I own Starcraft.(License/CD whatever you call it), I DO NOT own anything on Steam.

I was under the impression that I was PURCHASING the program that allows me to play the game on my own computer for as long as I own my computer. Like the old school CDs. You know, the installer, the necessary game files, etc..

I'd rather OWN one copy of a game that I can use indefinitely rather than have unlimited copies of a game that I can't use over time.

[BJWyler]

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Diposting pertama kali oleh BJWyler:

In the good ole days of physical media, that license was tied to that media. If the media was lost, damaged, or destroyed you weren't entitled to another copy free of charge, you had to pay for it.

I would RATHER do it that way. That way, I could have it installed on my OBSOLETE computer and NOT have to upgrade the operating system to play something that ALREADY works on my operating system.

And I would rather manufacturers continue to support all versions of the floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, that's not how our Technological World works, nor has it for over 50 years. I only can still play those games because I've been able to nurse one Windows 3.11 I found in a dumpster a few years back along. Once that dies, I am SOL and there ain't a thing that can be done about it.

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Just speak the point you are trying to make. Are you trying to tell me that I can't install my Starcraft CD on ANY windows 98 machine I own? One at a time? What are you trying to say?

Not sure about that one. I still have my Starcraft box set sitting on top of the bookshelf unused since I installed them via Battle.net. But yes, I have games that only allowed a limited number of installs/activations with the license key, and there have been a bunch of other programs with that limitation. The server check DRM schemes are the worst. If/when those servers go down, you are SOL if you want to install/reinstall that game/software. Tron: Evolution is one of the big ones. I lost access to that when Disney stopped paying the SecuROM bill and the servers where taken offline. You either need to find a hacked copy of the exe file or find someone who has set up a fake activation server in order to get a manual activation key in order to install the game on a new system.

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ogami:

I looking forward to the OP making threads about this for the rest of the year.
A 250 day temper tantrum by a grown man is something you dont see every day.
:lunar2019coolpig:

I hope so. I really have no temper tantrum, I plan on attempting to upgrade to keep access to my games. I am upset over the fact that I OWN none of them.

And ranting in the Steam forums is never going to change that. It's the way it has been for 40 years of software production. I agree that we need to have Consumer Rights get upgraded for the digital age, but until people start coming up with workable solutions and writing their lawmakers to get things changed, this is the way it will always be.

[Qbert ⭐]

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Aachen:

No, it would not be. Licenses from Steam are not rentals.

Do you really believe that if my area experiences a power outage I no longer own my licenses?

And if you can't access Steam because of Valve's decisions that means they get to keep our money, yet we have nothing. Please explain how this is fair to you.

No, because once the power comes back on, you can re-access Steam with no changes to your hardware or software.

Following the same line, once you update your OS to a compatible one, you can access all your games again.

[Satai_Delenn]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Wolf Knight:

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

My games I have purchased (rented) STILL work. No issues. Why the forced update to Win 10?

core features in the platform rely on an embedded version of Google Chrome, which no longer functions on older versions of Windows

Well, maybe there's the problem. Stop using Google Chrome. Not everyone uses that. I don't use it. My system works JUST FINE as it is.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Satai_Delenn:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Wolf Knight:

core features in the platform rely on an embedded version of Google Chrome, which no longer functions on older versions of Windows

Well, maybe there's the problem. Stop using Google Chrome. Not everyone uses that. I don't use it. My system works JUST FINE as it is.

Specifically CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework).

And it is used by many companies and you likely have been using it for a long time, with out knowing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework

[Satai_Delenn]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Wolf Knight:

Diposting pertama kali oleh vgifford:

I'd rather have a physical copy that will work with my machine once the "Provider?" decides their done with my operating system.

then put steam in OFFLINE mode permanently and you can keep enjoying your games you have installed.

I tried that and after a while, the Steam screen went black and wouldn't load the library. So, that doesn't work, or I would have continued to do that forever.

[Satai_Delenn]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Spawn of Totoro:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Satai_Delenn:

Well, maybe there's the problem. Stop using Google Chrome. Not everyone uses that. I don't use it. My system works JUST FINE as it is.

Specifically CEF (Chromium Embedded Framework).

And it is used by many companies and you likely have been using it for a long time, with out knowing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework

I doubt it. I don't have a laptop. I have a desktop with a tower. I don't use Google for anything.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Satai_Delenn:

I doubt it. I don't have a laptop. I have a desktop with a tower. I don't use Google for anything.

Many programs use Chromium Embedded Framework. It isn't exclusive to Chrome.

I suggest reading the article I posted.

As an example:
Does you computer use .NET framework from Microsoft? If so, then Chromium Embedded Framework is a part of that too.

[Satai_Delenn]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Spawn of Totoro:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Satai_Delenn:

I doubt it. I don't have a laptop. I have a desktop with a tower. I don't use Google for anything.

Many programs use Chromium Embedded Framework. It isn't exclusive to Chrome.

I suggest reading the article I posted.

As an example:
Does you computer use .NET framework from Microsoft? If so, then Chromium Embedded Framework is a part of that too.

I have absolutely no idea. I'm not a techie. I turn my computer on; I use MS Word, or Paint, or Excel, or I play my games, or I surf the Web. That's it. I never claimed to be a computer genius. Very far from it. All I want is my Win7 computer to play my OLD GAMES. This announcement is VERY VERY frustrating. There is NO REASON for Steam to be doing this. They COULD keep the games running for Win7 users. They are CHOOSING not to. There is nothing wrong with my system, and on and after Jan 1st 2024, there still won't be anything wrong with my system. I'll still be able to run games just fine. It's STEAM who is CHOOSING to shut my games down. It's not right, and it's not fair.