2 week refund is ridiculous

[Sir Whiffsalot]

Just coming here to rant. Bought RDR2 during a previous sale, but didn't download it until yesterday. "Played" 45 minutes, but really that was just messing with the settings. No amount of setting tinkering made the game playable. Naturally, I hoped for a refund, and would accept Steam credit only for it to be denied as I purchased it 2 weeks ago. Oh well. Steam just lost a customer!

[PocketYoda]

Tito Shivan a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

Star Wars Survivor. Gotham Knights. UNCHARTED Legacy of Thieves Collection. Assassins Creed, Division 2. Hogwarts Legacy. Red Dead Redemption 2 all are hours long chain cut scenes at the start many of which wont allow saving..

So you're telling me all those games have been developed to have long cutscenes and cut the user from saving purposely in order to bypass Steam's 2 hour playtime limit for refunds?

Considering many of those games sell mainly in their own service (with their own refund policies) and most of them are multiplatform and sell on PC and console I don't see your premise holding much water.

Yes, its obviously a factor in modern AAA gaming design. They know its a 2 hours refund window so they do their best to keep their games from allowing customers to take a break in the first 2 hours..

The 2 hours on PC is pretty much on all platforms these days, i have no idea how console works as i don't deal with them. That said most console stuff i've seen are retail disks still so refunding them would be childs play here..

[Brian9824]

PocketYoda a écrit :

Tito Shivan a écrit :

So you're telling me all those games have been developed to have long cutscenes and cut the user from saving purposely in order to bypass Steam's 2 hour playtime limit for refunds?

Considering many of those games sell mainly in their own service (with their own refund policies) and most of them are multiplatform and sell on PC and console I don't see your premise holding much water.

Yes, its obviously a factor in modern AAA gaming design. They know its a 2 hours refund window so they do their best to keep their games from allowing customers to take a break in the first 2 hours..

The 2 hours on PC is pretty much on all platforms these days, i have no idea how console works as i don't deal with them. That said most console stuff i've seen are retail disks still so refunding them would be childs play here..

Actual consoles and retail discs have no refund at all once opened, and as already disproved the games do not have 2 hours of cut scenes at the start.

[PocketYoda]

brian9824 a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

Yes, its obviously a factor in modern AAA gaming design. They know its a 2 hours refund window so they do their best to keep their games from allowing customers to take a break in the first 2 hours..

The 2 hours on PC is pretty much on all platforms these days, i have no idea how console works as i don't deal with them. That said most console stuff i've seen are retail disks still so refunding them would be childs play here..

Actual consoles and retail discs have no refund at all once opened, and as already disproved the games do not have 2 hours of cut scenes at the start.

Australia refunds console games..

[Brian9824]

PocketYoda a écrit :

brian9824 a écrit :

Actual consoles and retail discs have no refund at all once opened, and as already disproved the games do not have 2 hours of cut scenes at the start.

Australia refunds console games..

Care to post the law where Australia refunds fully functional games?

Playstation for instance disagrees with you
https://www.playstation.com/en-au/support/store/ps-store-refund-request/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20started%20to,of%20content%2C%20please%20contact%20us.&text=You%20will%20receive%20a%20refund,original%20payment%20method%20where%20possible*.

Again, you can get a refund for a "defective" game. However a game not working on your PC isn't defective. Users keep making the mistake in thinking that any game that doesn't work on your PC is "defective"

Now if you got a faulty disc that couldn't be read, or was blank you could refund that, but that isn't remotely the scenario here.

[WhitePhantom]

PocketYoda a écrit :

Tito Shivan a écrit :

Like... for example?

Star Wars Survivor. Gotham Knights. UNCHARTED Legacy of Thieves Collection. Assassins Creed, Division 2. Hogwarts Legacy. Red Dead Redemption 2 all are hours long chain cut scenes at the start many of which wont allow saving..

Nonsense. Red Dead Redemption 2 was console only when it first released. They sold 23 million copies and made over a billion dollars before it launched on PC. Even then, it released on Rockstar's own store and the Epic Games Store a whole month before coming to Steam. I hope you're not seriously trying to suggest that they designed the entire opening section to get around Steam's refund policy when it was in reality the very last storefront to receive the game.

Hogwarts Legacy has an intro that takes maybe 30 minutes if you take your time then you're free to explore the world. You can quit at almost any time during this introductory sequence without losing much progress. I know because I quit about five minutes in to tinker with some settings.

Uncharted Legacy of Thieves is an enhanced port of a PS4 exclusive that released all the way back in 2016. Years before Sony started bringing their games to PC.

Gotham Knights is the same. At most it's 40 minutes before you're in the open world.

I don't know about the others because I haven't played them, but you really need some better examples if you're going to prove that developers are changing the way they design games just for the Steam refund system.

[Tito Shivan]

PocketYoda a écrit :

The 2 hours on PC is pretty much on all platforms these days]

You may want to read actual refund policies:

1) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime

2) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

3) EA Play - Whichever comes first:

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

4) Ubisoft - You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched.

5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. (Open to abuse, they monitor for abuse as do all PC stores).

7) CD Key sites: No refund after key has been redeemed.

As you can see only Steam and Epic have the 2 hours restriction.

[crunchyfrog]

Tito Shivan a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

Star Wars Survivor. Gotham Knights. UNCHARTED Legacy of Thieves Collection. Assassins Creed, Division 2. Hogwarts Legacy. Red Dead Redemption 2 all are hours long chain cut scenes at the start many of which wont allow saving..

So you're telling me all those games have been developed to have long cutscenes and cut the user from saving purposely in order to bypass Steam's 2 hour playtime limit for refunds?

Considering many of those games sell mainly in their own service (with their own refund policies) and most of them are multiplatform and sell on PC and console I don't see your premise holding much water.

Plus imagine how much resources would be wasted trying to craft those games to do that, when the chances of people refunding under those conditions are stageringly slim.

It's absolutely counter-productive.

[nullable]

Customers have rights sure, but so do businesses. And if you go into a store and buy things and ignore the posted policies and then want them to change because you discover they're incompatible with your baseless assumptions that's entirely a you problem, and you're a bad customer.

And you're never coming back? Can't say that fusses anyone. It's just loud mouthed ego massaging to try and make a spectacle of it.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

nullable a écrit :

Customers have rights sure, but so do businesses. And if you go into a store and buy things and ignore the posted policies and then want them to change because you discover they're incompatible with your baseless assumptions that's entirely a you problem, and you're a bad customer.

And you're never coming back? Can't say that fusses anyone. It's just loud mouthed ego massaging to try and make a spectacle of it.

This is exactly what I was saying: The policy was posted. Read it before buying. If they don't like the 2 week return period then they shouldn't of bought it while that policy was in effect. If someone buys something without reading the store's policies on returns/refunds first then that's their problem, not the store's problem.

[crunchyfrog]

🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊 a écrit :

nullable a écrit :

Customers have rights sure, but so do businesses. And if you go into a store and buy things and ignore the posted policies and then want them to change because you discover they're incompatible with your baseless assumptions that's entirely a you problem, and you're a bad customer.

And you're never coming back? Can't say that fusses anyone. It's just loud mouthed ego massaging to try and make a spectacle of it.

This is exactly what I was saying: The policy was posted. Read it before buying. If they don't like the 2 week return period then they shouldn't of bought it while that policy was in effect. If someone buys something without reading the store's policies on returns/refunds first then that's their problem, not the store's problem.

This is what I constantly point out on here.

You always AGREE to the terms whether you've read them or seen them. You can't just accept things and then think you can make your own rules up afterwards.

Law doesn;t work like that. ANYWHERE.

[PocketYoda]

Tito Shivan a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

Star Wars Survivor. Gotham Knights. UNCHARTED Legacy of Thieves Collection. Assassins Creed, Division 2. Hogwarts Legacy. Red Dead Redemption 2 all are hours long chain cut scenes at the start many of which wont allow saving..

So you're telling me all those games have been developed to have long cutscenes and cut the user from saving purposely in order to bypass Steam's 2 hour playtime limit for refunds?

Considering many of those games sell mainly in their own service (with their own refund policies) and most of them are multiplatform and sell on PC and console I don't see your premise holding much water.

Most platforms have the same type of refunds as steam.

Sorry i never replied Steam never gave me any notifications..

[PocketYoda]

Tito Shivan a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

The 2 hours on PC is pretty much on all platforms these days]

You may want to read actual refund policies:

1) Steam - Within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime

2) Epic - Games and products are eligible for refund within 14 days of purchase. However, you must have less than 2 hours of runtime on record.

3) EA Play - Whichever comes first:

a) Within 24 hours after you first launch the game.

b) Within 14 days from the day you bought it, if you have not launched the game.

c) Within 14 days from the release date if you pre-ordered the game, if you haven't launched it yet.

4) Ubisoft - You can request a refund for a digital order within 14 days of your purchase, as long as the content has not been launched.

5) Blizzard - The game is newly purchased within the last 3 days. You haven't started the game; if the game has been played at all it won't qualify for a refund.

6) GOG - starting now, you can get a full refund up to 30 days after purchasing a product, even if you downloaded, launched, and played it. That's it. (Open to abuse, they monitor for abuse as do all PC stores).

7) CD Key sites: No refund after key has been redeemed.

As you can see only Steam and Epic have the 2 hours restriction.

Origin and Blizzard do not fly in Australia, i've had refunds on EA from playing a game, those rules are not legal here.

GOG is literally the Aussie laws

brian9824 a écrit :

PocketYoda a écrit :

Australia refunds console games..

Care to post the law where Australia refunds fully functional games?

Playstation for instance disagrees with you
https://www.playstation.com/en-au/support/store/ps-store-refund-request/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20started%20to,of%20content%2C%20please%20contact%20us.&text=You%20will%20receive%20a%20refund,original%20payment%20method%20where%20possible*.

Again, you can get a refund for a "defective" game. However a game not working on your PC isn't defective. Users keep making the mistake in thinking that any game that doesn't work on your PC is "defective"

Now if you got a faulty disc that couldn't be read, or was blank you could refund that, but that isn't remotely the scenario here.

Retail stores Refund broken or faulty Console games.

[Brian9824]

PocketYoda a écrit :

Retail stores Refund broken or faulty Console games.

I've never seen a store REFUND a broken game, now EXCHANGE it with another item yes. Looking at the return policy for Target, Bestbuy, Walmart, etc all confirms this. Can you show a store's refund policy where they will refund you OPENED software as you claim?

Also steam games aren't broken or faulty since its a digital download. A common mistake people keep making is a game having bugs or not working on your PC doesn't make it broken or faulty. People like to say any game that doesn't work on their PC or that has bugs is "broken" which doesn't make it LEGALLY broken. In the entire history of steam you can probably count on your fingers how many games have ever met the threshold of being broken...

It requires a LOT of effort and court action for a product to be declared "broken".

[wesnef]

PocketYoda a écrit :

Yes, its obviously a factor in modern AAA gaming design. They know its a 2 hours refund window so they do their best to keep their games from allowing customers to take a break in the first 2 hours..

That explains all the games I've played over the decades that had similarly-long intro sections, before any "2 hour refund" stuff existed.



Conspiracy theories are bad for your health.

[Crazy Tiger]

wesnef a écrit :

Conspiracy theories are bad for your health.

Especially when the examples posted aren't actually doing what was said.