muckymucks 2023년 1월 6일 오후 9시 15분
8 of the 10 best selling games worldwide are "free"
Gamers love to complain about microtransactions. They're a cancer on the gaming industry, they say. Gamers also apparently love microtransactions because the Steam global selling chart shows 8 of the 10 best selling games are free-to-play.

I hate gamers, obviously, and this is just one of many reasons. So every time someone complains about microtransaction they've probably spent hundreds of dollars on said microtransactions.




Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
Dota 2
Apex Legends™
Lost Ark
PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS
War Thunder
Destiny 2
Warframe
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cinedine 2023년 1월 10일 오전 11시 32분 
Satoru님이 먼저 게시:
Well thank you 'captain obvious' for your troll post

Yes unsurprisingly games that require constant high player populations of users in order to sustain themselves have OH MY GOD high player populations. As opposed to, well I dunno, single player games that do not have giant sustained tails because you know EVERYONE DOESNT NEED TO PLAY THEM ALL THE TIME

There are many reasons you could have listed.
- them being free instead of them requiring an upfront purchase
- them being popular and popular things getting all the popularity
- them being log going and people feeling time comitted or have social contacts in those games

Instead you reasoning is
They have much players because they need much players?
Unless there is a constant baseline provided by the studios behind them, when did this ever work? And none of them actually *needs* so many players. Healthy multiplayer doesn't need millions of players.

Also the point is not that they are the most popular games, but the best selling games. Meaning they made more money then most single player games this year.
Boblin the Goblin 2023년 1월 10일 오전 11시 51분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
I guess since you couldn't refute anything in the video, you just decided to dismiss it.
I usually dismiss like 99.99% of stuff that comes from Youtube or Streamers.

FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Yeah, I guess some people wouldn't think of them as good game journalists because of they don't overly rely or misuse the word "problematic" or think of "gamer" as a derogative word.
It's sweet how people assume things. No I don't think of those as 'good game journalists' either. Just something a little bit above the 'I has a youtube channel' bunch. Loads of overlap amongst those anyway.

FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Either way, you should not need that video to be able to understand that it's Steam's API that enables these gambling websites
Are you aware gambling sites still work without the API, right?

By extension of your reasoning, the very existance of Steam 'enables' gamling sites.

Let's randomly not mention the facts Steam (the ones who allegedy 'enable' those sites) routinely nukes those sites names and URLs off the community by filtering them and acting against users spamming and advertising them.

It's all the umpteen loaded debate fueled by anger towards Steam because that drives juicy clicks and visits to Youtube and 'gaming news' sites. Not really worth debating it for longer, as it's a giant with feet of clay.


Did he really try to imply that Steam doesn't do anything about gambling sites because it makes them money?

Did Steam suddenly stop suspending accounts that use those sites for trading, stop blocking those links, and remove the part of the ToS that forbids using those sites?
Pierce Dalton 2023년 1월 10일 오후 12시 01분 
Burger Man님이 먼저 게시:
muckymucks님이 먼저 게시:
Gamers love to complain about microtransactions. They're a cancer on the gaming industry, they say. Gamers also apparently love microtransactions because the Steam global selling chart shows 8 of the 10 best selling games are free-to-play.

I hate gamers, obviously, and this is just one of many reasons. So every time someone complains about microtransaction they've probably spent hundreds of dollars on said microtransactions.




Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
Dota 2
Apex Legends™
Lost Ark
PUBG: BATTLEGROUNDS
War Thunder
Destiny 2
Warframe

Funny thing is I have them all on ignore list but during the sales they showed up, I guess marketing is more important than a custom filter list

It's because user preferences do not affect certain sections of the store. That, of course, should change if you ask me.
Satoru 2023년 1월 10일 오후 12시 02분 
cinedine님이 먼저 게시:
They have much players because they need much players?
Unless there is a constant baseline provided by the studios behind them, when did this ever work?

Because they OP is whining about 'player count'

The only way you can have those kinds of games work, is to have high player counts because they are designed that way. No one is going to play PUBG if you only have 50 people in a lobby.

They're whining that 'popular MP games that require sustained populations are popular' is so earth shatteringly brain dead.

And none of them actually *needs* so many players. Healthy multiplayer doesn't need millions of players.

Im not sure why you'd think that. Updates for games isnt free. Providing content isnt free. If you want a "publisher" supported MP environment, then yes, you need functionally millions of players now. If you want to just play CS1.6 with your friends that's a different thing. That is not how modern MP games work. Especially from AAA publishers. Every other MP game is pumping out new content constantly, so all MP game basically have to do the same. This means unless you are pulling in money to sustain this constant stream of updates, your game simply won't survive.

Popular modern MP games are going to have the highest sustained player count, because, again, to be a popular MP game, you need high sustained player counts. And that the top 10 of any player count list, is going to, by definition be dominated by such games. Because 500k people don't need to be playing Elden Rign 24/7/365 for that game to be good. You're not going to see giant sustained playercounts for other kinds of games. Because other kidns of games are not designed nor are required to have that.

Whining the Steam top 10 player count has lots of popular MP games that require high player counts, is like going to a dog show and wondering why there are so many dogs.
Satoru 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 1월 10일 오후 12시 11분
Tito Shivan 2023년 1월 10일 오후 1시 02분 
KittenGrindr님이 먼저 게시:
Did he really try to imply that Steam doesn't do anything about gambling sites because it makes them money?
Worse, he's actually saying Steam ENABLES them.
"To enable: give (someone) the authority or means to do something; make it possible for."

KittenGrindr님이 먼저 게시:
Did Steam suddenly stop suspending accounts that use those sites for trading, stop blocking those links, and remove the part of the ToS that forbids using those sites?
That's been conveniently left out. Like Valve actions against those sites.
https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/20/12240606/valve-cease-and-desist-letter-csgo-betting-sites
cinedine 2023년 1월 10일 오후 1시 30분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
That's been conveniently left out. Like Valve actions against those sites.
https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/20/12240606/valve-cease-and-desist-letter-csgo-betting-sites

An event that interestingly enough marked the total explosion in creation of these sites.

While he is wrong about the API enabling gambling sites, Steam's trading mechanics, the community marketplace and Valve offering "rare" loot to begin with did certainly enable those gambling scams.

Satoru님이 먼저 게시:
Whining the Steam top 10 player count has lots of popular MP games that require high player counts, is like going to a dog show and wondering why there are so many dogs.

Wow, you decided to double down on that, didn't you?

So why do games like EVE that actually do profit from a higher player count don't make the list?

And no, you still don't need millions of players for the multiplayer to be fun. 10,000 players in PUBG are enough to completely fill out 100 lobbies. Which should be enough to keep downtime low if you happen to get killed in the first few minutes. And yes, 50 people in a lobby are enough given how fast the remaining player count can dip to this number.
And that's a BR with a preferred lobby size of 100. DOTA 2 needs 10.

Satoru님이 먼저 게시:
Im not sure why you'd think that. Updates for games isnt free. Providing content isnt free. If you want a "publisher" supported MP environment, then yes, you need functionally millions of players now.

Which is totally not the point you were trying to make earlier. Also as we are talking about FREE to play games, no you do not need millions of players to create content. You need enough players that are willing to spend money.
Player number/popularity is one factor on why people spend money on a game. But I never heard anyone whaling because "the game was designed around me needing to spend money and keep playing it instead of doing something else."

And still no explanation how these games top Elden Ring or Mass Effect Legacy in terms of spending.
And it's not like single player games are not required to make money for new content, patches, or even a sequel.
Pierce Dalton 2023년 1월 10일 오후 1시 53분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
KittenGrindr님이 먼저 게시:
Did he really try to imply that Steam doesn't do anything about gambling sites because it makes them money?
Worse, he's actually saying Steam ENABLES them.
"To enable: give (someone) the authority or means to do something; make it possible for."

KittenGrindr님이 먼저 게시:
Did Steam suddenly stop suspending accounts that use those sites for trading, stop blocking those links, and remove the part of the ToS that forbids using those sites?
That's been conveniently left out. Like Valve actions against those sites.
https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/20/12240606/valve-cease-and-desist-letter-csgo-betting-sites

Even corrupt cops sometimes catch a few bad guys, you know.
FOXDUDE69 2023년 1월 10일 오후 8시 43분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
I guess since you couldn't refute anything in the video, you just decided to dismiss it.
I usually dismiss like 99.99% of stuff that comes from Youtube or Streamers.

Not surprised. However, 99.99% of the gaming community now relies on youtube, twitch and twitter for their gaming news. since gaming journalists on legacy gaming media are all too busy writing inflammatory, toxic and divisive click bait articles. Although you can find some of this toxicity on youtube as well, with channels like Extra Credits.

Perhaps dismissing youtube and streamers was the reason you were so ill informed about Diablo Immortal in the past when you said It's only pay to win "to you" (me), at the time when the entire gaming community was revolting against in on youtube, twitch and twitter and providing non-stop evidence of just how terribly and disgustingly monetized that game was.

Youtube is great way to get the finger on the pulse of the gaming community, I recommend you stop dismissing so you can get a clearer picture on where gamers draw the line when it comes to microtransactions in F2P games, and in this case, how valve benefits from enabling a gambling scene to emerge surrounding their games. really recommend you watch the video I linked you.
FOXDUDE69 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 1월 10일 오후 8시 46분
Thermal Lance 2023년 1월 10일 오후 8시 45분 
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
I usually dismiss like 99.99% of stuff that comes from Youtube or Streamers.

Not surprised. However, 99.99% of the gaming community now relies on youtube, twitch and twitter for their gaming news. since gaming journalists on legacy gaming media are all too busy writing inflammatory, toxic and divisive click bait articles. Although you can find some of this toxicity on youtube as well, with channels like Extra Credits.

Perhaps dismissing youtube and streamers was the reason you were so ill informed about Diablo Immortal in the past when you said It's only pay to win "to you" (me), at the time when the entire gaming community was revolting against in on youtube, twitch and twitter and providing non-stop evidence of just how terribly and disgustingly monetized that game was.

Youtube is great way to get the finger on the pulse of the gaming community, I recommend you stop dismissing so you can get a clearer picture on where gamers draw the line when it comes to microtransactions in F2P games.
Diablo Immortal is still a bloody good game thought. Even thought I just prefer playing Diablo 2.
FOXDUDE69 2023년 1월 10일 오후 8시 50분 
Thermal Lance님이 먼저 게시:
Diablo Immortal is still a bloody good game thought. Even thought I just prefer playing Diablo 2.
Almost everyone agreed that it was a good game, great gameplay, good production values, etc, The problem is that the monetization ruined that game for everyone who didn't think having to pay 100.000 dollars to max out a character was okay, as I'm sure you are aware.
FOXDUDE69 2023년 1월 10일 오후 8시 57분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
By extension of your reasoning, the very existance of Steam 'enables' gamling sites.

Where are the EPIC GAMES and RIOT gambling sites? Notice that this is a "problem" only Steam has.
Thermal Lance 2023년 1월 10일 오후 9시 04분 
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Thermal Lance님이 먼저 게시:
Diablo Immortal is still a bloody good game thought. Even thought I just prefer playing Diablo 2.
Almost everyone agreed that it was a good game, great gameplay, good production values, etc, The problem is that the monetization ruined that game for everyone who didn't think having to pay 100.000 dollars to max out a character was okay, as I'm sure you are aware.
I dont care about competitive tbh. In Diablo 2 its people buying sets on trade sites so as far as I am concerned... it dosen't change much on my end.
Tito Shivan 2023년 1월 10일 오후 11시 19분 
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
By extension of your reasoning, the very existance of Steam 'enables' gamling sites.

Where are the EPIC GAMES and RIOT gambling sites? Notice that this is a "problem" only Steam has.
Which isn't enabled by Steam having an API, as you repeatedly said. Note Epic also has an API (EOS).

cinedine님이 먼저 게시:
While he is wrong about the API enabling gambling sites, Steam's trading mechanics, the community marketplace and Valve offering "rare" loot to begin with did certainly enable those gambling scams.
I personally wouldn't mind trading being completely deprecated and Steam moving all item exchange to the Marketplace.
FOXDUDE69 2023년 1월 11일 오전 4시 52분 
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:

Where are the EPIC GAMES and RIOT gambling sites? Notice that this is a "problem" only Steam has.
Which isn't enabled by Steam having an API, as you repeatedly said. Note Epic also has an API (EOS).

But if EPIC had a market like Steam's and developed games featuring skins that can gambled for and exchanged for money, and were designed in such a way that they feature multiple rarity tiers which further contribute to their artificial scarcity... then their API would enable similar gambling sites to exist. Pretty Simple.

Valve shaking their finger at gambling sites in 2016 and saying they'd do something about it was an empty threat, just a PR move to make it look they disapprove of gambling when they built the casino.

Valve will never do anything about it until regulation comes for them because they ultimately profit from it. They are the ones the skins need to be bought and gambled from to begin with.

The irony of Gaben talking about "bad actors" when it comes to Crypto, while Valve leaves thei backdoor wide open for children to gamble.

This is terrible for principled gamers such as myself, because I genuinely enjoy CSGO but I rarely buy skins, because every time I do, I know I'm rewarding Valve for being a naughty, naughty company. I'd probably have 3, 4 times the amount of skins I do now if it wasn't for their gambling addiction.
FOXDUDE69 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2023년 1월 11일 오전 4시 53분
Xhoas 2023년 1월 11일 오전 5시 40분 
FOX6NINE님이 먼저 게시:
Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:
Which isn't enabled by Steam having an API, as you repeatedly said. Note Epic also has an API (EOS).



Valve shaking their finger at gambling sites in 2016 and saying they'd do something about it was an empty threat, just a PR move to make it look they disapprove of gambling when they built the casino.
Where are the proof of that? LOL
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