Will the Australian Refund Policy be carried across the world

[Jason]

I just read about Valve getting sued by the ACCC, and I think it is about time. Thanks for Australia's government for doing something we've all wanted to but don't have the power.

I am wondering why it takes a government entity to call Valve out on this, and whether or not this will eventually be carried across the world to treat everyone with equal respect! :D

That would be great, especially since there are many games on Steam that I've bought that I would love a refund. Certain games are way too misleading now a days, with their lying screenshots and so much more. There really needs to be a way for those gross liars to receive no money.

It has nothing to do with Valve games, I love Valve games, but there's so many other games on Steam that I go "hey that looks good" and then realize it is garbage I just bought. Those people don't deserve their horrible games on Steam, let alone get money for it.

But then again I'm the type of person that thinks any game that forces you to make a separate account to play it and has a separate updater/launcher even though the game is on Steam.....I think those games should either get their act together or be removed from Steam.

Just the simple fact that if you have to use a separate launcher to update a random game instead of using Steam, it messes with your playtime stats, and all of a sudden you have 60 hours of play time in a game you still haven't even booted because of ridiculous updates.


And I bet you this will get locked within a half hour because the moderators really hate serious conversations. The more time I spend writing this the quicker the moderators will remove it, because when the fans take time and put thought into something.......you silence em. I really want things to change but I am afraid of even writing this because I am 99% sure the moderators will do their job and make me want to post things like this less and less. Another huge problem that will never be fixed because the system in place is designed to make that problem continue forever.

[AzKat 🐔]

Lets see here, (only an example, I don't own some or any of the games):

I've played all 3 mass effects, all battlefields, all assassin's creeds all age of empires games, all gta games, all max payne games, all souls games


Now I want a refund for all of the above. Oh steam doesn't refund games that I've fully enjoyed to the point that I don't want them anymore? Time to sue them.


^ that was just how I imagine people that want refunds for their games.

[CereaL KillA]

Australia always likes to cause trouble.

[RegionalDialect]

Messaggio originale di CeriaL KillA:

Australia always likes to cause trouble.

Don't blame us. Blame the government.

[CereaL KillA]

Messaggio originale di Mr. McSuave:

Messaggio originale di CeriaL KillA:

Australia always likes to cause trouble.

Don't blame us. Blame the government.

true lol

[RegionalDialect]

Messaggio originale di CeriaL KillA:

Messaggio originale di Mr. McSuave:

Don't blame us. Blame the government.

true lol

The Australian government likes to pretend that the internet is just some fad that will go away eventually. It's really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying.

[RedLightning]

I say the laws need to be fixed.. as this "all sales final" is only allowing developers to hype their games, sell preorders... and screw the general public, with no recourse.

If a company puts out a bad, buggy, inconsistant game then they should, in the end, not recieve compensation. Yet the laws let the crooks get away with anything.

Heck certain companies on Steam (no mention).. even forces upgrades to the game you bought, wether you want them or not. In most cases these upgrades have broken the game even further each time. The game I bought years ago is NOT the game they force me to have today.

Practices like this, in light of refunds and customer satisfaction.. would cease and companies would not be able to ply their shady practices.

[Start_Running]

It Might, assuming the aussies win. Which they might not actually. IT all goes to the definition of some nebulous terms and whether video games count more as a car or as a book.

[Jason]

think of it like reverse greenlight

if someone doesn't like the game too bad for them, but when a large amount of people have an actual reason they don't like something then they get the reverse greenlight. And it has to be big stuff, like a game coming with spyware, or not being functional yet still available to buy dlc. Those things which have happened on Steam are reasons a developer should be given the reverse greenlight.

Side note, for me it says "How to Survive" is on the new releases page, is that a bug or something? Man....Steam really has changed and become extra confusing and messy. I'm 99% sure How To Survive being on the new releases page is a bug or something.

[Jason]

This is important because if it is just as easy to boot a game that will give my computer a virus as it is to boot Half Life from Steam....then we have an issue on our hands don't we.

If some games don't even update through Steam or don't even use your Steam account for anything and force you to make another account once you boot the game, it should say that because it lessens the experience, and I want to know right away before I boot the game that the experience I'm about to have is going to be less than ideal.

Especially if there is a risk of the game installing random other software that updates on its own and I have no idea what it is, then you look it up and it's this crazy pointless program used by hardly no one that also might be a trojan or whatever. When things start getting that fishy and you're reading tons of forum threads about this random program this random free game installed in order to run.....you start thinking "Does Valve approve of this/know about this?"

If we're to be subjected to this kind of stuff that is what we need to know about, because booting TF2 is one experience, but some games make it so difficult for you to even play the game, before you even look at one menu in the actual game.

It is fine because the game I'm using for example, microvolts, is buried in the lists where hardly anyone will ever find it to discover its mysterious anti cheat software that people think is a virus. Not enough people will get burned that it will matter....but it does matter.

Honestly this all comes down to Valve needing to make Steam better. It is stuff like Big Picture never working, or using a controller and trying game after game that says it has full controller support and it totally doesn't. Or Big Picture mode being impossible to use with certain games, where I thought there would be some batch script or something to make all those windows in the background boot automatically in big picture mode, it is actually a mode that takes up more resources on your computer.

I think more communication is necessary, about what Valve's doing and thinking, classifying games, from individual developers.

Even Australia! hahaha :D


Maybe the bigger question is how unethical does a developer have to be until Valve actually has to make some sort of apology to their own fans. So far things like the war z have seemed to only bother people and tick them off, and there hasn't been some sort of huge scale problem with another developer messing with Steam that it makes Valve fans mad at Valve......maybe when EA pulled their games? But I'm not sure because I was more happy at the possibility of EA going out of business if they keep going down that route. Maybe Valve needs to keep getting poked by these problems until one is so big they have to talk about it and change something.

Will it take someone making $1 million, $10, $50 million? and have it being done through a public scam on Steam, before Valve goes, heyyyyyyyyyyy maybe we'll give that money back and put you on a blacklist.

[Interzone]

Valve tends to be very slow in recognizing when a developer has pulled a fast one on it's customers.

I think back to 2012 and the Kalypso/NovaCore's Legends of Pegasus fiasco. It took two months of complaints before Valve started refunding people for the fraud that was committed. And even at that, they kept the store page up and were still accepting purchases while simultaneously giving refunds.

I don't think any "reasonable" person expects a refund simply because they don't like the game but at the same time, when a game is so obviously flawed so as not to be playable, Valve's reponse should be swift and unequivocal.

It's simple respect for the customers who helped make you what you are today.

[how bout i do anyway]

If the store page says your computer meets the minimum requirements, and when you download the game you are unable to run it properly or unable to access one or more advertised features or the game damages your computer, and if Valve cannot or does not solve your problem within a reasonable timeframe, that's when you should be able to get a replacement or a refund.

[TGC> The Games Collector]

Messaggio originale di Gus the Crocodile:

I would suggest you read their announcement[www.accc.gov.au] about the action. The ACCC is basically just asking Steam to present accurate information to Australian consumers about their rights.

Seems indeed more like they want a clearer SSA and TOS, rather than that they're demanding everything should be able to be refunded for any reason.

[HLCinSC]

I expect very little change initiallly. Providing the proof of violation will be on the user and steam is likely to make it an unneccesarily complicated and time consuming procedure.

[76561198151553868]

Messaggio originale di Tito Shivan:

This will probably end with an added specific clause for AU users on the SSA, like the existing one for EU customers. IMHO.

It doesn't matter what clause steam adds, thats the whole point. Under Australian law our statutory rights cannot be diminished nor waived.

Messaggio originale di AzKat:

Lets see here, (only an example, I don't own some or any of the games):

I've played all 3 mass effects, all battlefields, all assassin's creeds all age of empires games, all gta games, all max payne games, all souls games


Now I want a refund for all of the above. Oh steam doesn't refund games that I've fully enjoyed to the point that I don't want them anymore? Time to sue them.


^ that was just how I imagine people that want refunds for their games.

This is not how it works. Try reading the quoted excerpt from the legislation posted above before posting.

Messaggio originale di ♫TGC> The Gritty ♥♥♥♥:

Seems indeed more like they want a clearer SSA and TOS, rather than that they're demanding everything should be able to be refunded for any reason.

The main issue here is that Valve have a "NO REFUND" policy, which is illegal under Australian Law.

Messaggio originale di Frederick:

If the store page says your computer meets the minimum requirements, and when you download the game you are unable to run it properly or unable to access one or more advertised features or the game damages your computer, and if Valve cannot or does not solve your problem within a reasonable timeframe, that's when you should be able to get a replacement or a refund.

This is in essence how the Consumer law protects Australian consumers.

Messaggio originale di HLCinSC:

I expect very little change initiallly. Providing the proof of violation will be on the user and steam is likely to make it an unneccesarily complicated and time consuming procedure.

Valve can do what they like, but when more consumers complain to the ACCC about the "reasonableness" of the timeframe and Valve starts to cop million dollar fines, you will find that Valve comes to the party pretty quickly.

[76561198151553868]

Messaggio originale di Start_Running:

It Might, assuming the aussies win. Which they might not actually. IT all goes to the definition of some nebulous terms and whether video games count more as a car or as a book.

From my understanding of the lawsuit and examining Valves refund policy and SSA, Valve doesn't have a leg to stand on. The ACCC doesn't take losing cases to court.
The term "products and services" is clearly and broadly defined and it is irrelevant whether a product or service has a physical dimension or not.