Kingdom Hearts on Steam...PLEASE!!!

[The Brick Separator]

Does anyone else want Kingdom Hearts to come to Steam? It's my favorite series and would love an easier way to play it on the Steam Deck! I don't want to buy the Epic Games version because I don't know if I'll be able to get it to work with my limited PC gamer knowledge. I would love a native Steam version instead! Maybe there's a chance with all of the games coming over to Steam from other stores lately.

[RiO]

The Revenge of Suicide Jockey lähetti viestin:

I'm not sure how Epic Games and EU remotely matters, like Valve, their HQ is in the united states and from prior people's threads I've seen, Valve only adheres to the laws of the united states and the state of Washington, if their the same (Epic I mean) then the only laws that apply to them is the United states and the state of North Carolina.

It's not that cut and dry. If you want to operate within EU territories, you are generally forced to comply with EU legislation. This is also how the EU is e.g. fining Apple and Google for their 30% cut taken from app store transactions being abuse of monopoly. Same applies for other countries like iirc Korea also fining Google for pretty much the same thing.

This doesn't have to apply only to transactions under their jurisdiction. A country could generally make laws that you have to abide world-wide; or you're simply not allowed to do business in that country. (Case in point: the USA has and has had several of them which allow and allowed them to lay claim to any data they want from any company operating on their soil. No matter where the data is physically stored.)

Eiswolfin lähetti viestin:

Except Epic doesn't fit in 3.2 at all.

It doesn't have to. It only has to tick all the boxes in 3.1 for the EU commission to apply 3.8 at their discretion:

The Commission shall designate as a gatekeeper, in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 17, any undertaking providing core platform services that meets each of the requirements of paragraph 1 of this Article, but does not satisfy each of the thresholds in paragraph 2 of this Article.

(Emphasis mine.)

[RiO]

Eiswolfin lähetti viestin:

Epic doesn't providing core platform services

Try again:

Article 2 - Definitions

For the purposes of this Regulation, the following definitions apply:

(2) ‘core platform service’ means any of the following:
(a) online intermediation services;
[...]
(14) ‘software application stores’ means a type of online intermediation services, which is focused on software applications as the intermediated product or service;
(15) ‘software application’ means any digital product or service that runs on an operating system;

Video games are software applications.
Epic has EGS, which is an online distribution platform for games. I.e. a software application store. This is a specialized type of online intermediation services; which in turn is a type of core platform service.

Don't mistake the definition of what is or is not a core platform service for the size thresholds that are required to always, unavoidably, mark the undertaking owning said core platform service as a gatekeeper. And don't mistake the thresholds for being the absolute. As said; the EU commission can use its own discretion there.

The only boxes it needs ticked:
Does Epic's business have a significant effect on the EU internal market?
Yes. It has a substantial market share in video game development and in sales of games world-wide, including in the EU. In fact; its Unreal Engine technology is the runner up in market hold for stock game engines. (The largest is Unity.)

Does Epic retain any core platform services?
As established prior: yes, they do.

Does Epic enjoy an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or is it foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future?
Oh yes. They're doing quite well in the online distribution market as well as in engine tech development. In case of the former, EGS is afaik still growing and in case of the latter; there are no signs of them being knocked down from the #2 spot.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

RiO lähetti viestin:

Eiswolfin lähetti viestin:

Epic doesn't providing core platform services

Try again:

Article 2 - Definitions

For the purposes of this Regulation, the following definitions apply:

(2) ‘core platform service’ means any of the following:
(a) online intermediation services;
[...]
(14) ‘software application stores’ means a type of online intermediation services, which is focused on software applications as the intermediated product or service;
(15) ‘software application’ means any digital product or service that runs on an operating system;

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/faq
Under the standard EULA, Unreal Engine is free to use for learning, and for developing internal projects; it also enables you to distribute many commercial projects without paying any fees to Epic Games, including custom projects delivered to clients, linear content (such as films and television shows) and any product that earns no revenue or whose revenue falls below the royalty threshold.

A 5% royalty is due only if you are distributing an off-the-shelf product that incorporates Unreal Engine code (such as a game) and the lifetime gross revenue from that product exceeds $1 million USD; in this case, the first $1 million remains royalty-exempt.



EU does not get to decide things for a non-EU company and Epic has already confirmed Unreal under the EULA and the EULA at 14. states that only laws within the United States alone will have any power and under that:

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/eula/unreal
14. Governing Law and Jurisdiction
Any dispute or claim by you arising out of or related to this Agreement will be governed by North Carolina law, exclusive of its choice of law rules. You and Epic agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the Superior Court of Wake County, North Carolina, or, if federal court jurisdiction exists, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina. You and Epic agree to waive any jurisdictional, venue, or inconvenient forum objections to such courts (without affecting either party’s rights to remove a case to federal court if permissible), as well as any right to a jury trial. The Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods will not apply. Any law or regulation which provides that the language of a contract will be construed against the drafter will not apply to this Agreement. This paragraph will be interpreted as broadly as applicable law permits.

[RiO]

Eiswolfin lähetti viestin:

EU still isnt going to consider 2 combined services that make less than 400 million world wide in a 170 billion market as anything close to a gatekeeper.

Yes; that's the sole thing at work here: are they going to care about the scale of things?
And honestly: that depends.

A few years back everyone would've declared you a fool if you claimed Apple would be forced to eat crow on their 30% cut in the app store; and rescind their iOS browser monopoly. Yet complaints kept accruing in the EU; in the UK; in the US; and many other places; and now they're facing new legislative measures and court cases the world 'round.

If complaints start piling up on Epic's exclusivity deals and royalty freebies, they will.
Especially now that the whole Microsoft/Sony/Activision shenanigans have exclusivity practices pretty much under a magnifying glass.

Gotta see such things as part of the times.

Eiswolfin lähetti viestin:

If they did, Valve is in serious trouble.

I'm not too sure about that. I don't think Valve is actually doing anything crooked with regards to the DMA.
Just because your undertaking is classified as a gatekeeper doesn't mean it instantly becomes a criminal enterprise. It just means it becomes subject to some regulation of potentially anti-competitive behavior. And Valve already pretty much steers clear of such things.

Though admittedly; if they have a similar deal for the Source engine and publishing games through Steam as Epic does for UE and EGS, then that may have to go. But it's going to be minor things few-and-far-between.

(I also never said this thing would be the undoing of Epic, now did I?)



Anyway; nice segue and all -- but main topic was KH coming to Steam. Not the contractual dealings of Epic and the legalities thereof. Think we've wasted enough time on this one trying to sort out our various views, right?

Though I think we can all agree that exclusivity deals suck and having to wait it out for the KH games to break free, is a right pain in the rear.

[whadafock]

Cathulhu lähetti viestin:

Up to the publisher. Which would be SquareEnix.

And if you know how to buy and download Steamgames, the Epic Games Store is no different in that regard.

Yeah but I want to play the game on a SteamDeck

[IronHelianthus]

I am encouraging all my friends and fellow Kingdom Hearts fans to write to square and ask that they release Kingdom Hearts onto steam. I really, really want to be able to play Kingdom Hearts my deck too.

[Paratech2008]

I hope they do for those wanting it, but I get the idea Squaresoft doesn't listen to customers.

[sumolagann]

I'll just wait patiently, the wait for kh4 will probably be worse lol. waited for the DLC on steam instead of buying it on console, so the waits been forever now. Also waiting for kh3 originally was like 10 yrs, so used to waiting infinitely for it lol.

[IronHelianthus]

Yep! I remember when KH2FM was released and never localized in english, not until 2.5 HD remix. But yeah patience is important. still hoping for something within a year or two though.

[Tr1ckst3r]

At this point, I don't think Square Enix cares

[Elucidator]

Kingdom Hearts isn't a good game.
Its mostly empty, bland. Small rather square/cube shaped empty rooms with a few encounters, combat, next room. Uses 3d to hide chests.
Also the story... not too good. Minimum NPC count who mostly say the same stuff.
Cutscene bloat though.
Kingdom Hearts 2, slightly better in level design ...
Emptiness problems is slightly less with more 'objects'. Levels have actual objects now that fill up a bit of the stages (such as stands).
Kingdom Hearts 3, good level design...
but gameplay is boring and the cutscene bloat is real. (too much singing, aaa)

combat which is most of the game is somehow made more cheesy and more boring with each generation.
Like, KH2's plus was the transform thingy and sudden change in your movement and combat, but.... that's it basically.
You can float by hitting mid air weirdness, so you can just chain attack and the whole auto aim auto targetting auto approach when attacking a mob makes you go upward by combo chaining midair to reach enemy.
like... why.

Is there a need to use magic, despite its implementation? No. Is there a need to use items? No.
Is there a need to use any kind of strategy? In case attack doesn't work, try another angle (jump around it, etc.)
Difficulty increase == mobs do more damage and are slightly faster. (doesn't make the combat more interesting)

The boss battles have hit points, which is an interesting change, but it doesn't make the game more interesting.

You spend 40 hours doing the same thing over and over in combat and they made it boring and cheat easy to win... and they spam mobs everywhere...

Gummi Ship building and flying around is interesting, unless you have to do it a lot, which you don't, so.. its okay, but entirely unnessecary.

meh-

The side series had some interesting features. (BbS, 356/2 Days, DDD, mainly) (data sora and forget forget castle (forgot the names of those games) were unfortunately boring, although the forget forget castle combat mechanic was an interesting change)

Summarized: Kingdom Hearts is overrated.

and it doesn't help that they rerelease, with re-rereleases. Final Mix, +, Weird version number, added content (cutscenes + area) ...
people get hyped over the lore, but its .... designed to make you hype by leaving an endless amount of cliffhangers and incompletes everywhere.
so you start getting the games, even a stupid music rhythm game because of lore if you're into it, but the lore itself is boring if you think about it.
Practically KH3 ruined the whole lore and any interests in it for 2 reasons.

The wait between KH2 and KH3 was too long and they got rid of the whole mystery that was left and replaced it with something else.

Just my advise, but stop buying KH. If you really want to play that game, wait till they released the Final Mix ++ 0.7 Final Chapter Remind etc. edition; do not buy Kingdom Hearts 4 till that version is out.

[sumolagann]

Elucidator lähetti viestin:

Kingdom Hearts isn't a good game.
Its mostly empty, bland. Small rather square/cube shaped empty rooms with a few encounters, combat, next room. Uses 3d to hide chests.
Also the story... not too good. Minimum NPC count who mostly say the same stuff.
Cutscene bloat though.
Kingdom Hearts 2, slightly better in level design ...
Emptiness problems is slightly less with more 'objects'. Levels have actual objects now that fill up a bit of the stages (such as stands).
Kingdom Hearts 3, good level design...
but gameplay is boring and the cutscene bloat is real. (too much singing, aaa)

combat which is most of the game is somehow made more cheesy and more boring with each generation.
Like, KH2's plus was the transform thingy and sudden change in your movement and combat, but.... that's it basically.
You can float by hitting mid air weirdness, so you can just chain attack and the whole auto aim auto targetting auto approach when attacking a mob makes you go upward by combo chaining midair to reach enemy.
like... why.

Is there a need to use magic, despite its implementation? No. Is there a need to use items? No.
Is there a need to use any kind of strategy? In case attack doesn't work, try another angle (jump around it, etc.)
Difficulty increase == mobs do more damage and are slightly faster. (doesn't make the combat more interesting)

The boss battles have hit points, which is an interesting change, but it doesn't make the game more interesting.

You spend 40 hours doing the same thing over and over in combat and they made it boring and cheat easy to win... and they spam mobs everywhere...

Gummi Ship building and flying around is interesting, unless you have to do it a lot, which you don't, so.. its okay, but entirely unnessecary.

meh-

The side series had some interesting features. (BbS, 356/2 Days, DDD, mainly) (data sora and forget forget castle (forgot the names of those games) were unfortunately boring, although the forget forget castle combat mechanic was an interesting change)

Summarized: Kingdom Hearts is overrated.

and it doesn't help that they rerelease, with re-rereleases. Final Mix, +, Weird version number, added content (cutscenes + area) ...
people get hyped over the lore, but its .... designed to make you hype by leaving an endless amount of cliffhangers and incompletes everywhere.
so you start getting the games, even a stupid music rhythm game because of lore if you're into it, but the lore itself is boring if you think about it.
Practically KH3 ruined the whole lore and any interests in it for 2 reasons.

The wait between KH2 and KH3 was too long and they got rid of the whole mystery that was left and replaced it with something else.

Just my advise, but stop buying KH. If you really want to play that game, wait till they released the Final Mix ++ 0.7 Final Chapter Remind etc. edition; do not buy Kingdom Hearts 4 till that version is out.

I like it, most of the games aren't good though, DDD and chain of memories are okay. 1, 2 and 3 are perfectly fine arpgs, and I find the whacky weird convoluted story enjoyable. Solid combat in all of them, (obviously 1 is dated) like 3 best, was interested to play the dlc and black code mode or the higher difficulty. obviously 1 is dated and weakest. If you can name a game better in a similar vein i'd be interested. Only one I can think of is ffxv, but the isn't solid. There's just not much in competition with what it is, from what I see.

[Bandicoot Games]

Elucidator lähetti viestin:

Kingdom Hearts isn't a good game.
Its mostly empty, bland. Small rather square/cube shaped empty rooms with a few encounters, combat, next room. Uses 3d to hide chests.
Also the story... not too good. Minimum NPC count who mostly say the same stuff.
Cutscene bloat though.
Kingdom Hearts 2, slightly better in level design ...
Emptiness problems is slightly less with more 'objects'. Levels have actual objects now that fill up a bit of the stages (such as stands).
Kingdom Hearts 3, good level design...
but gameplay is boring and the cutscene bloat is real. (too much singing, aaa)

combat which is most of the game is somehow made more cheesy and more boring with each generation.
Like, KH2's plus was the transform thingy and sudden change in your movement and combat, but.... that's it basically.
You can float by hitting mid air weirdness, so you can just chain attack and the whole auto aim auto targetting auto approach when attacking a mob makes you go upward by combo chaining midair to reach enemy.
like... why.

Is there a need to use magic, despite its implementation? No. Is there a need to use items? No.
Is there a need to use any kind of strategy? In case attack doesn't work, try another angle (jump around it, etc.)
Difficulty increase == mobs do more damage and are slightly faster. (doesn't make the combat more interesting)

The boss battles have hit points, which is an interesting change, but it doesn't make the game more interesting.

You spend 40 hours doing the same thing over and over in combat and they made it boring and cheat easy to win... and they spam mobs everywhere...

Gummi Ship building and flying around is interesting, unless you have to do it a lot, which you don't, so.. its okay, but entirely unnessecary.

meh-

The side series had some interesting features. (BbS, 356/2 Days, DDD, mainly) (data sora and forget forget castle (forgot the names of those games) were unfortunately boring, although the forget forget castle combat mechanic was an interesting change)

Summarized: Kingdom Hearts is overrated.

and it doesn't help that they rerelease, with re-rereleases. Final Mix, +, Weird version number, added content (cutscenes + area) ...
people get hyped over the lore, but its .... designed to make you hype by leaving an endless amount of cliffhangers and incompletes everywhere.
so you start getting the games, even a stupid music rhythm game because of lore if you're into it, but the lore itself is boring if you think about it.
Practically KH3 ruined the whole lore and any interests in it for 2 reasons.

The wait between KH2 and KH3 was too long and they got rid of the whole mystery that was left and replaced it with something else.

Just my advise, but stop buying KH. If you really want to play that game, wait till they released the Final Mix ++ 0.7 Final Chapter Remind etc. edition; do not buy Kingdom Hearts 4 till that version is out.

Thanks for the opinion.

[Elucidator]

OldSch00lGaMER32X lähetti viestin:

Thanks for the opinion.

I just gave it because it seemed this thread has been going on for a long time now, and OP is pressing very hard on the "Please bring it to Steam, someone." request.

He's not missing out that much in my opinion. There are better games.

What I find most desturbing on the KH series though is the way they hype/advertise the next project, by using heavy plot cliffhangers that rarely get answered properly. I don't like that approach.
The main reason being is because its a project series in hands of square and if it doesn't make enough money they have no problem just disposing of it. So these cliffhangers may never get answered and you're always feeling like you've played an incomplete story.

edit:
So by giving the opinion, I was hoping to calm OP down.
I don't think Square is too quick with listening to the community. (I think they pretty much ignore them.)
Square is kinda keen on NFTs for example and other Web3 nonsense. They don't care what others have to say as long as they can smell money. As such I doubt emailing square with the request to bring KH to steam will do anything unfortunately.
They probably hope that people hop over to epic so that they can keep that extra 15%tax, which is tax by the way. (That 30% cut valve keeps is because of tax mostly. Some countries get a 0% cut from Valve.)
Epic takes a smaller cut, but that means epic pays the tax. It also explains why epic has less sales.

[IronHelianthus]

Regardless of the platform, I just ask that square remove the always online requirement. They are all offline games anyhow.
(yes, I know, with the exeption of MoM)