Bioshock: Infinite QoL update - 2K launcher

[loppantorkel]

So.. they updated this 10 year old SP game with a launcher. The right or wrong to do so is discussed in other threads.

I'm wondering about the recent reviews written and Valve's/dev's/publisher's view and response on that. Is the current review bombing sound and valid or will they be removed from the overall score?

automated tool that will identify "anomalous review activity" on all Steam games, in as close to real-time as possible. When a problem is detected, a team at Valve will be notified, and will investigate further.

"Once our team has identified that the anomalous activity is an off-topic review bomb, we'll mark the time period it encompasses and notify the developer," Valve wrote. "The reviews within that time period will then be removed from the Review Score calculation."

Off-topic content will include obvious things such as storefront changes and exclusive publishing deals, and also complaints that are related to, but not actually about, games, including the presence of DRM and changes to EULAs. Valve said the "general" Steam user doesn't really care about that sort of thing and so for most users, review scores are more accurate if those complaints are excluded—and users who do get into it at that level are often more willing to "dig a little deeper" before making their purchases.

The reviews themselves will remain in place, allowing those who want to dig deeper to do so, but the store page will be marked to indicate that off-topic review activity was detected and removed from the score. The review graph will also indicate which segment of offending reviews has been removed from the score.

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-takes-steps-against-steam-review-bombs/

Is it within the consumer rights to review the game negatively when the conditions have been changed around the game, perceived by the consumer as a negative? Do they have a right to affect the score negatively, having bought the game?

I'm not sure have this will be handled. It's not a major release or event. It's a 10 year old game which few cares about now, but it's still interesting imo.

[loppantorkel]

Black Blade の投稿を引用：

Beside that, its not made to help publisher do stuff like this, its meant to block users from effecting an over all score for all users, for an issue that most likely only really effect a really small amount of users
As said most users don't care about DRM, most don't care about launchers, they just want to play the game, even if the game was made by a developer that may be "evil" for most it does not matter.
So for most the overall score will be wrong if it showing stuff that a small group overall care about and most cant give up two cookies about

Doesn't that mean that most people won't give it a negative score due to the launcher? A small minority will vote the game down - it will be endorsed by 94% of the players instead of 95% or so, but Valve needs to step in and reverse this in order to hinder manipulation of off-topic activity...?

[Start_Running]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Black Blade の投稿を引用：

Beside that, its not made to help publisher do stuff like this, its meant to block users from effecting an over all score for all users, for an issue that most likely only really effect a really small amount of users
As said most users don't care about DRM, most don't care about launchers, they just want to play the game, even if the game was made by a developer that may be "evil" for most it does not matter.
So for most the overall score will be wrong if it showing stuff that a small group overall care about and most cant give up two cookies about

Doesn't that mean that most people won't give it a negative score due to the launcher? A small minority will vote the game down - it will be endorsed by 94% of the players instead of 95% or so, but Valve needs to step in and reverse this in order to hinder manipulation of off-topic activity...?

Depends on how you look at it. and if you've noticed most review bomb campaigns lose steam after about a week.

[loppantorkel]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Doesn't that mean that most people won't give it a negative score due to the launcher? A small minority will vote the game down - it will be endorsed by 94% of the players instead of 95% or so, but Valve needs to step in and reverse this in order to hinder manipulation of off-topic activity...?

Depends on how you look at it. and if you've noticed most review bomb campaigns lose steam after about a week.

They do. I don't see what you're trying to say. Is the Bioshock score less correct when a small minority has voted the game down due to an added launcher? Will 94% endorsed make it tougher for a potential buyer to make a correct decision, compared to a 95% score?

[J4MESOX4D]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Depends on how you look at it. and if you've noticed most review bomb campaigns lose steam after about a week.

They do. I don't see what you're trying to say. Is the Bioshock score less correct when a small minority has voted the game down due to an added launcher? Will 94% endorsed make it tougher for a potential buyer to make a correct decision, compared to a 95% score?

I think people care about the current state of a game than a lifetime percentage score. If prospective buyers don't wish to use another incorporated DRM then they will likely not buy the game for that reason and not whether the percent has dropped by 1% in a week.

[Black Blade]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Doesn't that mean that most people won't give it a negative score due to the launcher? A small minority will vote the game down - it will be endorsed by 94% of the players instead of 95% or so, but Valve needs to step in and reverse this in order to hinder manipulation of off-topic activity...?

Not at all
For a simple reason, only a small group reviews games over all, and someone that go up on a hype/hate train may review more then some that play was ok, bit will not review
So its very possible to get a lot of new reviews that are negative in a short time (or postive if trolling is afoot) from users some may not even care all that much but want to join the fight

So if lets say its an old game like bio shock you may have (made up numbers incoming)
30 new reviews where 5 are legit and 25 read news or post from someone and review it nagtively, that may show recent reviews as negative mostly even if for most it will not really matter

Hope that come out clear

[loppantorkel]

Black Blade の投稿を引用：

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Doesn't that mean that most people won't give it a negative score due to the launcher? A small minority will vote the game down - it will be endorsed by 94% of the players instead of 95% or so, but Valve needs to step in and reverse this in order to hinder manipulation of off-topic activity...?

Not at all
For a simple reason, only a small group reviews games over all, and someone that go up on a hype/hate train may review more then some that play was ok, bit will not review
So its very possible to get a lot of new reviews that are negative in a short time (or postive if trolling is afoot) from users some may not even care all that much but want to join the fight

So if lets say its an old game like bio shock you may have (made up numbers incoming)
30 new reviews where 5 are legit and 25 read news or post from someone and review it nagtively, that may show recent reviews as negative mostly even if for most it will not really matter

Hope that come out clear

Yea, it's apparent that the recent reviews will be more negative due to the badly received update by 2K. If 700 owners decide to not endorse the game now for this reason, out of nearly 95k reviewers - will this throw off the score enough that potential buyers won't be able to decide correctly? It's now mixed in recent reviews, while 94% for overall.



The whole 'review-bomb' narrative is pretty dicey in a binary score system. Should a review not count to the overall score if you choose not to endorse the game anymore for whatever reason, if you choose to do it under a certain time period?

Amazon is apparently 'correcting' the overall score on IMDB for their show 'Rings of Power'. There people are giving the show 1/10 for whatever reason, and while the show might be bad, one could perhaps question the honesty in 1/10 reviews. Same of course goes for all the 10/10 reviews the same show is getting. The point still is that 'review bombing' is more relevant and perhaps also justifiable when you have a more graded score.

[Black Blade]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Yea, it's apparent that the recent reviews will be more negative due to the badly received update by 2K. If 700 owners decide to not endorse the game now for this reason, out of nearly 95k reviewers - will this throw off the score enough that potential buyers won't be able to decide correctly? It's now mixed in recent reviews, while 94% for overall.



The whole 'review-bomb' narrative is pretty dicey in a binary score system. Should a review not count to the overall score if you choose not to endorse the game anymore for whatever reason, if you choose to do it under a certain time period?

Amazon is apparently 'correcting' the overall score on IMDB for their show 'Rings of Power'. There people are giving the show 1/10 for whatever reason, and while the show might be bad, one could perhaps question the honesty in 1/10 reviews. Same of course goes for all the 10/10 reviews the same show is getting. The point still is that 'review bombing' is more relevant and perhaps also justifiable when you have a more graded score.

First I hardly see any connection to grading options what so ever
Beside that it may not effect the 95K all that much, but the more recent reviews it may effect

For the most part I think it come as a responce for reviews about some DRM games that users got review badly after a short time and refund and stuff of that sort, effecting the new game that yet to have many reviews as not that many have the time to review it
In this case the reviews are not likely to have much effect on the over all i dont think

[loppantorkel]

Black Blade の投稿を引用：

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

The whole 'review-bomb' narrative is pretty dicey in a binary score system. Should a review not count to the overall score if you choose not to endorse the game anymore for whatever reason, if you choose to do it under a certain time period?

Amazon is apparently 'correcting' the overall score on IMDB for their show 'Rings of Power'. There people are giving the show 1/10 for whatever reason, and while the show might be bad, one could perhaps question the honesty in 1/10 reviews. Same of course goes for all the 10/10 reviews the same show is getting. The point still is that 'review bombing' is more relevant and perhaps also justifiable when you have a more graded score.

First I hardly see any connection to grading options what so ever

How many of the ca 90k positive reviews was just barely over the 'endorsement' threshold? a few thousands? Is it unreasonable to believe that a 10 year late launcher addition pushed 700 barely endorsed reviews to 'not-endorsed'?

I get if 7-10 rated games being changed to 1/10 reviews could be interpreted as 'review bombs'. It's more difficult to make the case for a change of endorsement due to questionable changes of the purchased game, by the publisher.

This was brought up in the first page too, and it's a good point.

Is this supposed to be viewed as a review-bomb, and will Valve act on it? Still a fairly insignificant issue, but I don't see many more relevant things discussed here, so why not indulge in unimportant discussions... :)

[Black Blade]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

How many of the ca 90k positive reviews was just barely over the 'endorsement' threshold? a few thousands? Is it unreasonable to believe that a 10 year late launcher addition pushed 700 barely endorsed reviews to 'not-endorsed'?

I get if 7-10 rated games being changed to 1/10 reviews could be interpreted as 'review bombs'. It's more difficult to make the case for a change of endorsement due to questionable changes of the purchased game, by the publisher.

This was brought up in the first page too, and it's a good point.

Is this supposed to be viewed as a review-bomb, and will Valve act on it? Still a fairly insignificant issue, but I don't see many more relevant things discussed here, so why not indulge in unimportant discussions... :)

Because it's off-topic, and we have a topic.. or had... thinking about it I think I lost my tab of it, was it locked? wanted to reply on it, but hard to find time to catch up on all the posts

[loppantorkel]

Black Blade の投稿を引用：

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

How many of the ca 90k positive reviews was just barely over the 'endorsement' threshold? a few thousands? Is it unreasonable to believe that a 10 year late launcher addition pushed 700 barely endorsed reviews to 'not-endorsed'?

I get if 7-10 rated games being changed to 1/10 reviews could be interpreted as 'review bombs'. It's more difficult to make the case for a change of endorsement due to questionable changes of the purchased game, by the publisher.

This was brought up in the first page too, and it's a good point.

Is this supposed to be viewed as a review-bomb, and will Valve act on it? Still a fairly insignificant issue, but I don't see many more relevant things discussed here, so why not indulge in unimportant discussions... :)

Because it's off-topic, and we have a topic.. or had... thinking about it I think I lost my tab of it, was it locked? wanted to reply on it, but hard to find time to catch up on all the posts

Nah, it's very much on-topic. This isn't an angle to promote a more graded review system. That thread had run its course. This is an explanation why there's a weaker ground to call out 'off-topic activity' and alter the overall score. This could of course be used as another argument for a more graded review system, but not in this thread :)

[Black Blade]

loppantorkel の投稿を引用：

Nah, it's very much on-topic. This isn't an angle to promote a more graded review system. That thread had run its course. This is an explanation why there's a weaker ground to call out 'off-topic activity' and alter the overall score. This could of course be used as another argument for a more graded review system, but not in this thread :)

Well shuld maybe point this is a manual proccess from what I understand
Valve dose there research and if they find it (likely from exstrnal souces like news sites that be where most of the reviews come from seeing them)
Then they apply it, becouse its manual process most likely based on stuff outside of reviews them self I dont think the review grade or sign matters all that much for this subject

I mean if they will want to automate something like that need some key tracking and stuff and you going to have a lot of false postive, so manual makes the most sense