Is Valve actively vetting developer requests to revoke keys?

[GRIMM]

I am curious about their process for approving this.

I, like quite a few others, had a game revoked today that was legitimately purchased. The same thing happend to another game about a month ago. The earlier one was sort of resolved for some people I guess, via the developer redistributing keys for those who had proof of purchase. And this one does not like it is going to get resolved in the same manner unfortunately.

One person on my friends list also had about 4 or 5 other games revoked.

There have been several of these issues lately with devs revoking keys. It's kind of unsettling to know one of my games can be removed at any time, and without any real communication as to the reasoning it was removed.

I am hoping this does not become a trend.

[JohCar]

Цитата допису Eisberg:

You guys are complaining about something that happens so rarely, that you want extreme measures to be taken to prevent a rare occurrence. If Valve took every measure for rare occurrences, things would become practically unusable or just not worth it and developers/publishers end up ignoring Steam because of it.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/375330/discussions/0/1734342161870915871/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/789470/discussions/0/1700542332331147116/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/484950/discussions/0/350542050095388246/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377980/discussions/0/343786746000107754/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/475550/discussions/0/1843493219426371494/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/397760/discussions/0/3374780959391387863
https://steamcommunity.com/app/205730/discussions/0/1752358461524160544/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/269690/discussions/0/3211505894113547210/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/410370/discussions/0/1489992080519393392/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/96000/discussions/0/1733210552664269514/

You guys are complaining about something that happens so rarely???

[WolfEisberg]

Цитата допису JohCar:

Цитата допису Eisberg:

You guys are complaining about something that happens so rarely, that you want extreme measures to be taken to prevent a rare occurrence. If Valve took every measure for rare occurrences, things would become practically unusable or just not worth it and developers/publishers end up ignoring Steam because of it.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/375330/discussions/0/1734342161870915871/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/789470/discussions/0/1700542332331147116/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/484950/discussions/0/350542050095388246/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/377980/discussions/0/343786746000107754/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/475550/discussions/0/1843493219426371494/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/397760/discussions/0/3374780959391387863
https://steamcommunity.com/app/205730/discussions/0/1752358461524160544/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/269690/discussions/0/3211505894113547210/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/410370/discussions/0/1489992080519393392/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/96000/discussions/0/1733210552664269514/

You guys are complaining about something that happens so rarely???

How many games are on Steam? yes, it happens rarely.
How many people did it actually effect, and how many people are on Steam? Yes, it happens rarely.

[Start_Running]

How many copies of games are sold on steam. and in all these cases given there's some question as to the true source of the keys.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Many of those links are about indiegamestand and while the owners of said site say they never sold off excess keys (that they didn't pay for) when the site shutdown they conveniently say "we don't know what happened to the keys" (their site still says this). Well they don't know what happened to them, but they somehow got activated....

Two separate issue's are being conflated now. One where developer's have made mistakes and the other where theft occurred. The former, from all the posts I've seen, have or are being fixed by the developer. Granted their mistake is your inconveniance and I do get the frustration there.

The latter is not an issue as it's legally sound and well within a developer's rights as the actual owners. A thief after all can not transfer ownership via a sale, even if the buyer is buying in good faith.

[MancSoulja]

Цитата допису Sleepy Yoshi:

Many of those links are about indiegamestand and while the owners of said site say they never sold off excess keys (that they didn't pay for) when the site shutdown they conveniently say "we don't know what happened to the keys" (their site still says this). Well they don't know what happened to them, but they somehow got activated....

Two separate issue's are being conflated now. One where developer's have made mistakes and the other where theft occurred. The former, from all the posts I've seen, have or are being fixed by the developer. Granted their mistake is your inconveniance and I do get the frustration there.

The latter is not an issue as it's legally sound and well within a developer's rights as the actual owners. A thief after all can not transfer ownership via a sale, even if the buyer is buying in good faith.

You're missing the whole point. Developers generate keys in batches. Sometimes batches of 10,000 keys+.

It is unprofessional and borderline illegal to nuke entire batches of keys because, say 50 of them end up on G2A. That means 9,950 keys legally obtained have been revoked to save 50 that have been misused.

I had to deal with this week after week at Flying Bundle, so don't tell me it rarely happens.

[MancSoulja]

And what happens when they can't rectify it? I've seen developers 'accidently' nuke a batch of keys and Valve have said to them;

'Nah, you can't have any more keys, you've already generated 100k keys for bundles and giveaways, you're not having any more'.

[WolfEisberg]

again, you are barking up the wrong tree. Valve is not going to address something that happens so rarely, cause if they did, then they would have to address every rare thing that happens and that would only lead to things becoming pretty much useless.

[Chompman]

Цитата допису MancSoulja:

I had to deal with this week after week at Flying Bundle, so don't tell me it rarely happens.

If it's so common on that site you really should stop using that kind of site as clearly they have issues.

[Crazy Tiger]

Цитата допису MancSoulja:

You're missing the whole point. Developers generate keys in batches. Sometimes batches of 10,000 keys+.

It is unprofessional and borderline illegal to nuke entire batches of keys because, say 50 of them end up on G2A. That means 9,950 keys legally obtained have been revoked to save 50 that have been misused.

Nobody will argue that. But that is an issue with a developer, not Valve/Steam.

Цитата допису MancSoulja:

And what happens when they can't rectify it? I've seen developers 'accidently' nuke a batch of keys and Valve have said to them;

'Nah, you can't have any more keys, you've already generated 100k keys for bundles and giveaways, you're not having any more'.

Again, an issue with the developer.

It might be wise to direct frustration at the proper sources.

[Start_Running]

Цитата допису MancSoulja:

You're missing the whole point. Developers generate keys in batches. Sometimes batches of 10,000 keys+.

It is unprofessional and borderline illegal to nuke entire batches of keys because, say 50 of them end up on G2A. That means 9,950 keys legally obtained have been revoked to save 50 that have been misused.

I had to deal with this week after week at Flying Bundle, so don't tell me it rarely happens.

That's rather an unlikely scenario. Hyperbole does not help your point.
What happens in such cases is that the developer must then restore all the valid keys. They either do this or face litigation from the retailers.

And yeah if this is happening to you week after week. Maybe, just maybe its a sign that you need to buy from a more reputable retailer.

Цитата допису MancSoulja:

And what happens when they can't rectify it? I've seen developers 'accidently' nuke a batch of keys and Valve have said to them;

'Nah, you can't have any more keys, you've already generated 100k keys for bundles and giveaways, you're not having any more'.

Yeah and at that point the retailer you bought the keys from should (if they are reputable) refund your money. SO again it comes down to between you and the retailer you bought it from.

[GRIMM]

Valve gives them the tools to do this.

If Valve is not going to restrict this tool and make it available only when it is absolutrely needed, the it will be abused by certain developers. Therefore it IS a Valve problem.

And also Valve has blackballed devs for doing less than this because people spoke up. In the case of some of these devs, it is pretty much fraud. In the case of the most recent game, it is is 100% fraud. And Valve gave them the tools to commit this fraud. So why is it not a Valve problem? They were given authority by Valve to do it.

I'm not saying Valve needs to pay for this. I'm saying Valve needs to reassess how they handle allowing these tools to be used by developers.

[Count_Dandyman]

Цитата допису Drunken Masta ₃⁶:

Valve gives them the tools to do this.

If Valve is not going to restrict this tool and make it available only when it is absolutrely needed, the it will be abused by certain developers. Therefore it IS a Valve problem.

And also Valve has blackballed devs for doing less than this because people spoke up. In the case of some of these devs, it is pretty much fraud. In the case of the most recent game, it is is 100% fraud. And Valve gave them the tools to commit this fraud. So why is it not a Valve problem? They were given authority by Valve to do it.

I'm not saying Valve needs to pay for this. I'm saying Valve needs to reassess how they handle allowing these tools to be used by developers.

Unless you personally have proof of how many keys the dev was told were sold and given payment for and how many keys were activated you shouldn't be throwing around accusations of fraud.

[cinedine]

Different question: HOW is Valve supposed to "vet" them?
Ask for a reason? "Illegally obtained", "purchased through CC fraud", ... not really helpful IF you want to abuse the system.

[GRIMM]

Цитата допису Count_Dandyman:

Цитата допису Drunken Masta ₃⁶:

Valve gives them the tools to do this.

If Valve is not going to restrict this tool and make it available only when it is absolutrely needed, the it will be abused by certain developers. Therefore it IS a Valve problem.

And also Valve has blackballed devs for doing less than this because people spoke up. In the case of some of these devs, it is pretty much fraud. In the case of the most recent game, it is is 100% fraud. And Valve gave them the tools to commit this fraud. So why is it not a Valve problem? They were given authority by Valve to do it.

I'm not saying Valve needs to pay for this. I'm saying Valve needs to reassess how they handle allowing these tools to be used by developers.

Unless you personally have proof of how many keys the dev was told were sold and given payment for and how many keys were activated you shouldn't be throwing around accusations of fraud.

Um, have you not been following the story? Or are you just going to blindly defend them. You'd make a pretty lousy lawyer.

Цитата допису cinedine:

Different question: HOW is Valve supposed to "vet" them?
Ask for a reason? "Illegally obtained", "purchased through CC fraud", ... not really helpful IF you want to abuse the system.

Easy. Same way we found out that the last game's key revokal was fraudulent.

Dev says "These guys did not pay me"

Valve says "Okay, we'll contact the site"

Site says "Here's our proof of payment" - which they actually showed pretty much everyone in this case.

Valve says "Hey dev, they paid you. No key revokal tool for you"

since this is such a rare thing as people are saying, it would not cost Valve much resources to vet these situations.

It took 1 person asking the accused website to find this out for the last game.

[Count_Dandyman]

Цитата допису Drunken Masta ₃⁶:

Цитата допису Count_Dandyman:

Unless you personally have proof of how many keys the dev was told were sold and given payment for and how many keys were activated you shouldn't be throwing around accusations of fraud.

Um, have you not been following the story? Or are you just going to blindly defend them. You'd make a pretty lousy lawyer.

Oh I have been following it I just don't have a reason to blindly follow the claims of the resellers that nothing went on when one of them is well known for its questionable handling of how it hands out keys.

Lousy lawyers are the ones that throw out big claims without proof to back them up the smart ones understand that not having all the information means you shouldn't commit to an argument that can later bite you in the ass when the information comes to light.