Censorship on the Steam store

[trangalho]

What's going on with the recent wave of game bans on the Steam store? This is just a repeat of what started back in February with Maidens of Michael and after the backlash with the attempt by the Steam staff to ban games that they dislike, it was promised that Valve would no longer try to thought police their own consumers, as long as the games didn't involve illegal content. Six months later and here we are with Valve employees once again randomly banning games because they don't like their content. The ridiculous "think about the fictional children" argument doesn't stick in the case of Imolicious, which is just proof that Valve once again has no standards and is just leaving this to their employees' whims.

I know that this will just end up being locked after a passive aggressive reply which won't justify their actions, but I can't just let this pass.

[Winged One]

引用自 evgenij1：

引用自 theseraph1：

you ever hear the phrase "pornography causes more confusion about sex than it does teach"? thats because of how the brain processes sexual stimuli, it does so on a far deeper level than almost any other form of stimuli..

You have to be really stupid to use porn as an instruction manual. What it really shows is that among people who watch porn there are stupid people. And I highly doubt that it is a stronger stimuli.
For example: I can imagine myself killing someone if they did something horrible to my children. I would be totally ok with committing violent crime before cops shows up. And if I am horny I can't imagine myself going on the street to rape someone.

引用自 theseraph1：

one again its not a "moral stance" issue, its a legal one.. legislation exists at a preventative level, so something doesn't eventually reach a criminal one..

You don't prevent stuff by suppressing desires - you prevent it by having ethical alternative. For example: almost all men have instinct to try to dominate others. And in my childhood teen would use gangs and street violence to have a release for this desire. Nowadays teens use computer games for this stuff and street violence is so rare that they had to shutdown some juvenile prisons, because it was literally empty.

And also - by having dopamine release you reinforce the action that you previously did. I.e. - if you kill people in a computer game and find it very exciting you will train yourself to sit at a computer to kill more fictional people in them. It does not train you to go outside and start murdering people in real life. The same is with porn, and especially with stylized porn that looks very different from real life.

nobody imagines themselves doing something illegal at first, not until they reach the point they do fyi

and once again, the brain processes Violent and Sexual stimuli differently, its not comparable... and for alot of people its usually not an "ethical alternative" but a gateway drug.. if you read the news when people are arrested for such issues, when they have pictures of one they normally have pictures of the other along with it.. I can cite specific cases if you would like

引用自 crusnik：

引用自 theseraph1：

I did read the article.. US has mixed views, Japan it is legal but controversial (meaning that could easily change in the next few years), and Switzerland.. all the others clearly list it as illegal.. also, there are alot more countries in the world with similar laws, that only lists bigger countries

Let me help you with reading comprehension:
Australia: Illegal, just like adult porn actresses that just happen to look a bit too young to someone that decides.
Brazil: Possibly Illegal
Canada: Illegal
Finland: Not Illegal
France: Not Illegal
Italy: Not Illegal
Japan: Not Illegal
Netherlands: Not Illegal
New Zealand: Possibly Illegal
Norway: Possibly Illegal
Poland: Possibly Illegal
South Africa: Possibly Illegal
Spain: Not Illegal
Switzerland: Not Illegal
Sweden: Not Illegal
United Kingdom: Illegal
United States: Not Illegal, some individual States judge differently due to 'obscenity'

All the Possible Illegal statuses are mostly due to poorly written law that tried to forbid realistic depictions which anime characters are not.
In most of these countries no one has ever been punished for loli hentai.
Even in the Countries that deemed loli content illegal it generally isn't prosecuted.

Ever heard of Thought Crime and Victimless Crime? You should read up on that.

yeah did you read? those don't say "possibly illegal", they specifically say there is legislation against it

引用自 Ashdemai：

Why would you remove my post when it had information necessary to the discussion?

Anyway, lolicon is not illegal in the US, the PROTECT act is unconstitutional and has not yet been contested at court.

sorry to tell you, but the US is not the center of the world.. Steam has to follow the laws of any country they do business in

引用自 Crashed：

引用自 Ashdemai：

Why would you remove my post when it had information necessary to the discussion?

Anyway, lolicon is not illegal in the US, the PROTECT act is unconstitutional and has not yet been contested at court.

Some moderators may see this thread as potentially risky, both legally and per the rules, and I am actually surprised they haven't just wiped out the whole thread. For all I know either law enforcement or NCMEC may be analyzing each and every post for suspicious behavior.

ohh some of the posts in these threads could certainly get someone considered for a watch list..

[Crazy Tiger]

引用自 crusnik：

Netherlands: Not Illegal

Actually, Lolicon is illegal over here.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

引用自 crusnik：

Netherlands: Not Illegal

Actually, Lolicon is illegal over here.

I don't think there's anywhere that its not illegal. The only real difference is the age.

[secuda]

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

引用自 crusnik：

Netherlands: Not Illegal

Actually, Lolicon is illegal over here.

In sweden as well, i can destictingly remember an article few years ago where a man got prosicute for helping translation mangas. so its not slippery slope its illegal allright.

[crusnik]

引用自 secuda：

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

Actually, Lolicon is illegal over here.

In sweden as well, i can destictingly remember an article few years ago where a man got prosicute for helping translation mangas. so its not slippery slope its illegal allright.

If you read the wikipedia article that is covered there.
He went to Supreme Court and was found innocent.

引用自 wikipedia：

On 15 June 2012, the Supreme Court found him not guilty. They decided that the images were not realistic and could not be mistaken for real children, and that they therefore could not be counted as exceptions to the constitutional law of freedom of speech. One picture was still considered realistic enough to be defined as child pornography according to Swedish law. However, his possession of it was considered defensible through his occupation as a professional expert of Japanese culture, particularly manga.

Pertaining Netherlands:

引用自 wikipedia：

In a 2010 case, after viewing the images in question, which were created on a computer, the court opined that the virtual child pornography images did not fall under criminal law. "All images can be termed as pornographic (three dimensional) cartoons, animations, or drawings. The court concludes that it is immediately obvious to the average viewer that the event is not real and that the images are manipulated images and not realistic."

[secuda]

引用自 crusnik：

引用自 secuda：

In sweden as well, i can destictingly remember an article few years ago where a man got prosicute for helping translation mangas. so its not slippery slope its illegal allright.

If you read the wikipedia article that is covered there.
He went to Supreme Court and was found innocent.

引用自 wikipedia：

On 15 June 2012, the Supreme Court found him not guilty. They decided that the images were not realistic and could not be mistaken for real children, and that they therefore could not be counted as exceptions to the constitutional law of freedom of speech. One picture was still considered realistic enough to be defined as child pornography according to Swedish law. However, his possession of it was considered defensible through his occupation as a professional expert of Japanese culture, particularly manga.

oh right my bad then. But still its its not quite safe as in oh you wont be punished if you where found out.

[Spawn of Totoro]

This has gone way off topic, so I am locking it up.

Valve has their interpretation of their rules and statements and in this situation, that is really all that matters. The way a few others interpret it, is not going to change the way it is.

The developers are free to remove the offending content and resubmit it to Valve for approval and the matter is between the developer and Valve.

Feel free to post your support for the developers in their own forums and/or game hub.

As for the legal matter's being discussed:
I am sure their legal department has the interpretation of various laws, as well as examples to go by, in order to make informed decisions on such matters, but these forums are not the place to have such debates.