Steam moderation needs to ALSO ban forum baiters

[Coffee]

There is a small but loud group of members that like to bait other members on the forum (or attempt to) and the one who gets baited often gets banned and disappears off the forum, where as the one who does the baiting never gets banned (or at least I still see them posting and continually baiting)

On most any other forum (reddit, blizzard forums, even twitter which isn't really a forum) but most social media platforms, BOTH the baiter and that which is baited get banned. For example on the WoW forums, if someone is doing a lot of baiting to attempt to get others banned, well if someone falls for it...that is on them, they get banned. The one doing the baiting ALSO gets banned however.

This forum the baiters (which can sometimes join together so it looks like a "mob" when its only a few of them) have taken advantage of this and antagonize, purposely are obtuse, use accusations that can be wrong but with almost no proof.

And... in the suggestions area they always oppose almost every suggestion.

Likewise. They (Almost) always disagree with every single topic and I've seen one disagree on one topic, and then agree on the same topic but the topic had opposing opinions on that topic. A good example is some NSFW threads. If its a pro-NSFW thread, then these baiters are anti-NSFW, but if its an anti-NSFW thread I've seen one show their true face and become pro-NSFW

Yet they get away with this and the one who got baited (often the OP of the topic) is the one banned.

[AROCK!!!]

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

lmao....dude, it's not a secret that the volunteer mods did what I said, and its more like me and a ♥♥♥♥ load of others word against them.

what makes you think that? how were they biased?

They would take sides quite often.


There was one moderator...rottendude....that used to post his own opinion on a thread (taking sides), make pointed comments toward the person(s) he did not side with, and then lock the thread.

Oh yeah...if it was a female poster, then 99.99999% chance that is who he would side with.


Other times, or more accuratly, all the f-ing time you would see certain people getting away with things that others got banned for.


there is a lot more to it, but i think you get the idea

[Hamless Hog]

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

what makes you think that? how were they biased?

They would take sides quite often.


There was one moderator...rottendude....that used to post his own opinion on a thread (taking sides), make pointed comments toward the person(s) he did not side with, and then lock the thread.

Oh yeah...if it was a female poster, then 99.99999% chance that is who he would side with.


Other times, or more accuratly, all the f-ing time you would see certain people getting away with things that others got banned for.


there is a lot more to it, but i think you get the idea

taking sides or voicing there own opinion?

Ive never seen them be biased with females, team doesnt even show gender..

They dont really ban people for someone elses behaviour. This is all nonsense

[Brian9824]

cinedine eredeti hozzászólása:

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

And no one has debunked a damn thing.

As a matter of fact one of the moderators wrote about a report war in the closing post. That means one group of people frequently reported another group of people and vice versa.
So yeah, there are groups just waiting to report other users. Some of them quite openly state their distain about the other group still being able to post despite them being moderated every so often, so it's not unlikely they will do their worst to make that stop. Some of them also make whole topics revolving around taking the rights to post away from some user they had interaction with lately. So, again, not far-fetched that those were the pinnacle of them abusing the report function.

Oh im sure there are, i'd bet a few of them are banned right now, since i know they falsely reported me multiple times and I had support remove the wrongful bans

Also FYI helps if you read, as the claim was that multiple reports made moderators act faster, not that certain "bad actors" abuse reporting. So really helps when you read instead of jumping in blindly trying to attack people.....

[Coffee]

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

what makes you think that? how were they biased?

Other times, or more accuratly, all the time you would see certain people getting away with things that others got banned for.

filtered out the junk and hearsay, and the uh...well ...uh the other junk

Left the part with more substance behind it.

You can know they did this by when you look at the Skyrim SE artwork AND screenshot section and see (often) the same people for months to 1+ year posting NSFW screenshots and artwork even if they got reported. If someone else did the same thing and a moderator was in a bad mood, would ban them and take out all adult screenshots/artwork (even on games with built in nudity) on their entire community hub page. Yet leave behind the same users who spend months posting NSFW screenshots and artwork.

[Brian9824]

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

They would take sides quite often.


There was one moderator...rottendude....that used to post his own opinion on a thread (taking sides), make pointed comments toward the person(s) he did not side with, and then lock the thread.

Oh yeah...if it was a female poster, then 99.99999% chance that is who he would side with.


Other times, or more accuratly, all the f-ing time you would see certain people getting away with things that others got banned for.


there is a lot more to it, but i think you get the idea

taking sides or voicing there own opinion?

Ive never seen them be biased with females, team doesnt even show gender..

They dont really ban people for someone elses behaviour. This is all nonsense

It's the usual nonsense, the same people whined about getting banned under the volunteer moderators, and the same users are continuing to get banned under support. Its not the people enforcing the rules that's the issue, its the people that constantly keep breaking them

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2859604170

[Hamless Hog]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

taking sides or voicing there own opinion?

Ive never seen them be biased with females, team doesnt even show gender..

They dont really ban people for someone elses behaviour. This is all nonsense

It's the usual nonsense, the same people whined about getting banned under the volunteer moderators, and the same users are continuing to get banned under support. Its not the people enforcing the rules that's the issue, its the people that constantly keep breaking them

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2859604170

yea and those people get punished. i dont see the problem.

[Coffee]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Hogarth eredeti hozzászólása:

taking sides or voicing there own opinion?

Ive never seen them be biased with females, team doesnt even show gender..

They dont really ban people for someone elses behaviour. This is all nonsense

It's the usual nonsense, the same people whined about getting banned under the volunteer moderators, and the same users are continuing to get banned under support. Its not the people enforcing the rules that's the issue, its the people that constantly keep breaking them

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2859604170

I think last time I got banned personally was back when I had NSFW screenshots of Skyrim (just nudity not porn) many years ago. But like I said above post, there was a rogue moderator who took that plus everything else at the time and left behind everyone elses NSFW screenshots who posted for like 2 years until they went on their way to be replaced by other users who've posted for months to 1+ year on skyrim community hub of NSFW stuff lol. Mostly far worse than the stuff I had xD

But that was years ago I got community banned for 72 hours, wasnt a big deal. Just was annoying they didn't do that to anyone else who were far more blantant about it. And the NSFW stuff on skyrim SE community hub is even more than before lol.

As for forums go, I tend to tread carefully, mostly observe and post then leave these days. Except like I said, I'll respond once in a while.

[KalGimpa]

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

there is a lot more to it, but i think you get the idea

yup. some people who could not control themselves got modded and then came up with the conspiracy that the vol. mods were biased

they left, the volunteers, and now it is the paid mods that are biased.

soon, it is going to be gabe himself that is making the calls and being labeled as biased for it

[Coffee]

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

there is a lot more to it, but i think you get the idea

yup. some people who could not control themselves got modded and then came up with the conspiracy that the vol. mods were biased

they left, the volunteers, and now it is the paid mods that are biased.

soon, it is going to be gabe himself that is making the calls and being labeled as biased for it

I actually think the paid moderators are vastly better and not biased at all.

You can know this by posting NSFW screenshots/artwork of skyrim and (while I haven't done it cause of the past as I've said a couple times now), apparently nothing comes of it since its so dominant on that community hub page.

But overall I think the paid moderators are a vast improvement, despite my one critique in the OP

[KalGimpa]

Coffee eredeti hozzászólása:

KalCuey eredeti hozzászólása:

yup. some people who could not control themselves got modded and then came up with the conspiracy that the vol. mods were biased

they left, the volunteers, and now it is the paid mods that are biased.

soon, it is going to be gabe himself that is making the calls and being labeled as biased for it

I actually think the paid moderators are vastly better and not biased at all.

You can know this by posting NSFW screenshots/artwork of skyrim and (while I haven't done it cause of the past as I've said a couple times now), apparently nothing comes of it since its so dominant on that community hub page.

But overall I think the paid moderators are a vast improvement, despite my one critique in the OP

i have had a few warnings, mostly deserved, and have never seen any bias

[Coffee]

yeah I suppose looking back, I could have led with that for a bit more positivity in the OP. I only think one thing gets by, but in general there isn't actually any bias as far as I see. Just that which is deserved. But, the OP does open up the whole thing like the paid moderators are just as bad or worse. But I actually think the change is a huge improvement imo.

[Elucidator]

@OP
Just a tip, but if you start a discussion on a forum, then you're the manager of the discussion. You should be the one to direct where it goes.
The moderators can step it, but it isn't supposed to be their job. If it is interrupted away from the subject for too long (and got derailed) then users can try to fix it on their own but moderators don't always see that and chances are the thread just locks away like that.

If you start a thread and the first post is a ad hominem type of comment; with you controlling the direction of the discussion as its manager being the OP, you're causing the thread to be about that argumentation or whatever follows.

If you don't intervene with the thread and don't manage it, then it can go anywhere as well.

There is a bit of responsibility that comes from the OP of each thread. Moderators will close it if it goes nowhere near what the OP intended.


About "baiters":
I assume you mean trolls, not sure to be honest.
Most of the time, people who are primarily there to ruin the day of others for their own entertainment in any form are 'covert narcissists'
Here's a pretty recent study that is on narcissistic personality disorder; its quite an interesting read.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886921001550
keep in mind the following when reading this:
covert narcissism is a specific style of what can be either narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder.

Also the International Classification of Diseases completely abandoned this concept as a mental disorder someone can have, and instead opts for Personality Disorder (with a specific style).
Narcissism, is no longer a personality disorder at all, but rather just a behavior pattern someone can have, or a pervasive personality style.
Though, someone with this as a pervasive behavior pattern likely has a Personality Disorder.

Since ICD-11, Personality Disorders can be diagnosed even when it is 'mild'.
and one of the things that could lead to this is "lack of empathy", which is the primary defining trait of Narcissism.
(the other two defining traits being Entitlement, and Grandiosity)

(By the way, this is in order of severity in defining narcissism as well.)
The study makes an interesting conclusion, namely that covert narcisissm is the true narcissism and grandiose narcissism, is a form of psychopathy. (anti social personality disorder).

Covert narcissism is the type of narcissism you see in abundance online, that is if you encounter it. It's about preserving status mainly.
Narcissists do not keep themselves to one particular style, but they have a 'main style', so they may switch to grandiose, or malignant from time to time, displaying all, usually depending on how they feel, how secure or rewarded they feel)

I highly recommend looking up covert narcissism and learning about it better.


I'll try to keep it short as to what this has to do with troll/baiters:

They have no true empathy, they only understand feelings so they can say "I know you feel sad", but they don't feel it. They know it intellectually. It has always been like this for them.
So they see people as toys to play with. They primarily like feeling control, power, status, admiration and seek validation.

They bait to make people react, because it confirms for them that they are in control, and that others are 'something less' in their mind. Which makes them feel bigger. (basically).

They rely on a fictional version of themselves (and want to make that real, pushing that idea forward). Due to this they are extremely sensitive to criticism, especially if it is related to them somehow. Either they deflect it, or want to cancel you. They rely ... heavily rely on others.

They feel reward under two circumstances. 'praise' (attention, positive reward), or power (which can mean they get hated, it gives them a feel of being in control or right).
In other words, any reaction to them, gives them narcissistic supply.
which means they will continue.

To truly make them stop getting rewarded from bad behavior, their words and opinions have to be invalidated to the point of indifference and not just ignored. If they say 'that person is bad', someone has to say 'don't worry about what they say, you're fine. '

If you ignore them, they imagine people agreeing with them and feel permission to continue. So, ignoring them isn't the best course of action.
if you invalidate their words, they will feel criticism, so do be prepared to feel the giant wind of threats and such.
but if their behavior clearly shows, its far more likely that they get at least warned and later banned by moderators. (true narcissists are natural narcissists, so they won't stop no matter what. They will always redo the same stuff.)


Anyway, instead of not listening to baiters, what I think you should try to do is try making it indifferent for others. Believe me, if they can't get any points either plus or minus, they will leave.

(anyway, this only works with true baiters / trolls, which again I assume are narcissists as I described here)

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

cinedine eredeti hozzászólása:

ÁROCK!!! eredeti hozzászólása:

And no one has debunked a damn thing.

As a matter of fact one of the moderators wrote about a report war in the closing post. That means one group of people frequently reported another group of people and vice versa.
So yeah, there are groups just waiting to report other users. Some of them quite openly state their distain about the other group still being able to post despite them being moderated every so often, so it's not unlikely they will do their worst to make that stop. Some of them also make whole topics revolving around taking the rights to post away from some user they had interaction with lately. So, again, not far-fetched that those were the pinnacle of them abusing the report function.

Yep.

[Psymon²]

Quint the Alligator Snapper eredeti hozzászólása:

cinedine eredeti hozzászólása:

As a matter of fact one of the moderators wrote about a report war in the closing post. That means one group of people frequently reported another group of people and vice versa.
So yeah, there are groups just waiting to report other users. Some of them quite openly state their distain about the other group still being able to post despite them being moderated every so often, so it's not unlikely they will do their worst to make that stop. Some of them also make whole topics revolving around taking the rights to post away from some user they had interaction with lately. So, again, not far-fetched that those were the pinnacle of them abusing the report function.

Yep.

source
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/5595176692485257310/#c3458220484818273775

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Psymon² eredeti hozzászólása:

Quint the Alligator Snapper eredeti hozzászólása:

Yep.

source
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/5595176692485257310/#c3458220484818273775

Also, https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3430076047074528582/