"immersive sim" store tag is busted

[SodaDrinker69]

immersive sims are an extremely particular genre of game, like deus ex, prey 2016, system shock, etc. but the store tag is full of general "simulation" games to the point that its just completely unusable to actually find immersive sims. anyways just felt like whining about it.

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 shirigaruonna!：

i wish i was exaggerating, 99% is a genuine estimation after browsing through all the pages of games tagged immersive sim.
i have flagged already all the ones that float up to the surface of searches and such before any of the less helpful posters suggested but since the system requires a certain threshold of flags to be met i think a thread here is pretty much as best i can do to fight this menace.

No it IS exaggeration unles you demonstrate evidence. That's kind of the point.

If it were as you say, these boards would be flooded.

Sounds like you're cherry picking and not understadning how language works too.

[kitt]

引用自 Nx Machina：

@ kitt

They literally in the title use the term "immersive" sim.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

And the games they mention are "immersive sims."

these games are still not a "sim" or "Simulation" by definition.. they surely are in case of Deux Ex immersive RPGs..


anyway, not discussing semantics (though its not but to be classy) only leads to a red message on top of the community forums

[Nx Machina]

引用自 kitt：

these games are still not a "sim" or "Simulation" by definition.. they surely are in case of Deux Ex immersive RPGs..

No they are "immersive" sims.

An immersive sim (simulation) is a video game genre that emphasizes player choice. Its core, defining trait is the use of simulated systems that respond to a variety of player actions which, combined with a comparatively broad array of player abilities, allow the game to support varied and creative solutions to problems, as well as emergent gameplay beyond what has been explicitly designed by the developer.[1] This definition is not to be confused with game systems which allow player choice in a confined sense or systems which allow players to easily escape consequences of their choices.

[davidb11]

引用自 kitt：

引用自 Nx Machina：

@ kitt

They literally in the title use the term "immersive" sim.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

And the games they mention are "immersive sims."

these games are still not a "sim" or "Simulation" by definition.. they surely are in case of Deux Ex immersive RPGs..


anyway, not discussing semantics (though its not but to be classy) only leads to a red message on top of the community forums

Just because you don't think immersive sims are a real thing, it doesn't mean those games don't exist. :P
You just don't have the power to make things not exist. :P

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 davidb11：

引用自 kitt：

these games are still not a "sim" or "Simulation" by definition.. they surely are in case of Deux Ex immersive RPGs..


anyway, not discussing semantics (though its not but to be classy) only leads to a red message on top of the community forums

Just because you don't think immersive sims are a real thing, it doesn't mean those games don't exist. :P
You just don't have the power to make things not exist. :P

Yup, plus the thing to remember is that tags are LANGUAGE.

And language is descriptive, not proscriptive.

This means that it's far more umbrella like and open to being shared among other terms that YOU might not like, but are actually correct.

[davidb11]

Yep. Very well said.

[Bee🐝]

Sorry to tell you this OP, but you’re fighting a loosing battle.

For a while, a bunch of people in the adventure game community tried to sort out the insanity which was the “adventure game” tag and they just couldn’t stay ahead of trend. It was only marginally more effective with the “visual novel” tag being applied to “point ‘n clicks”.

Basically, at this stage, there’s little you can do to stem the flood. Your only hope is that the community finds a new genre name for “immersive sims” that doesn’t include the word “simulator”.

In general, the “simulator” tag is a disaster area, so sincere condolences for your loss.

Edit: Here's a practical example of when bad tagging actually hurts a game. The members of the Atelier community have tried to get the "nudity" and "mature" tags removed from "Ryza: Ever Darkness & the Secret Hideout" - neither are accurate - but those tags just don't seem to shift. That series has some very unique gameplay and those tags either confuse the target market or leave others feeling very...unsatisfied.

[SodaDrinker69]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

引用自 shirigaruonna!：

i wish i was exaggerating, 99% is a genuine estimation after browsing through all the pages of games tagged immersive sim.
i have flagged already all the ones that float up to the surface of searches and such before any of the less helpful posters suggested but since the system requires a certain threshold of flags to be met i think a thread here is pretty much as best i can do to fight this menace.

No it IS exaggeration unles you demonstrate evidence. That's kind of the point.

If it were as you say, these boards would be flooded.

Sounds like you're cherry picking and not understadning how language works too.

you seriously misunderstand what exaggerating means, you twerp. i browsed through all 1.5k+ games tagged immersive sim and 99% is a genuine estimation. i'm sorry that i don't have a computer brain that can precisely calculate the exact percentage but when someone offers an honest number in good faith, whether they have "hard evidence" or not, it's not an exaggeration. if you want the hard evidence you have access to the same hard evidence i do: the list on the store page. feel free to prove me wrong. kindly leave this thread and consider returning once your own "understadning" of language improves.

引用自 kitt：

引用自 Nx Machina：

@ kitt

They literally in the title use the term "immersive" sim.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

And the games they mention are "immersive sims."

these games are still not a "sim" or "Simulation" by definition.. they surely are in case of Deux Ex immersive RPGs..


anyway, not discussing semantics (though its not but to be classy) only leads to a red message on top of the community forums

doubling down on proud ignorance is really embarrassing.

引用自 Bee：

Sorry to tell you this OP, but you’re fighting a loosing battle.

For a while, a bunch of people in the adventure game community tried to sort out the insanity which was the “adventure game” tag and they just couldn’t stay ahead of trend. It was only marginally more effective with the “visual novel” tag being applied to “point ‘n clicks”.

Basically, at this stage, there’s little you can do to stem the flood. Your only hope is that the community finds a new genre name for “immersive sims” that doesn’t include the word “simulator”.

In general, the “simulator” tag is a disaster area, so sincere condolences for your loss.

Edit: Here's a practical example of when bad tagging actually hurts a game. The members of the Atelier community have tried to get the "nudity" and "mature" tags removed from "Ryza: Ever Darkness & the Secret Hideout" - neither are accurate - but those tags just don't seem to shift. That series has some very unique gameplay and those tags either confuse the target market or leave others feeling very...unsatisfied.

i would say at the very least there is an argument to be made regarding tagging a game as "adventure" for the genre vs "adventure" as a theme the game has, but you're right in that a large number of the tags are just completely functionally useless. good post.

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 Bee：

Sorry to tell you this OP, but you’re fighting a loosing battle.

For a while, a bunch of people in the adventure game community tried to sort out the insanity which was the “adventure game” tag and they just couldn’t stay ahead of trend. It was only marginally more effective with the “visual novel” tag being applied to “point ‘n clicks”.

Basically, at this stage, there’s little you can do to stem the flood. Your only hope is that the community finds a new genre name for “immersive sims” that doesn’t include the word “simulator”.

In general, the “simulator” tag is a disaster area, so sincere condolences for your loss.

Edit: Here's a practical example of when bad tagging actually hurts a game. The members of the Atelier community have tried to get the "nudity" and "mature" tags removed from "Ryza: Ever Darkness & the Secret Hideout" - neither are accurate - but those tags just don't seem to shift. That series has some very unique gameplay and those tags either confuse the target market or leave others feeling very...unsatisfied.

You're not wrong.

It kind of boils down to this.

The term "simulator" is about as vague as the term "game" itself. Try and whittle down games on here with that term ;)

[Thermal Lance]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

引用自 Bee：

Sorry to tell you this OP, but you’re fighting a loosing battle.

For a while, a bunch of people in the adventure game community tried to sort out the insanity which was the “adventure game” tag and they just couldn’t stay ahead of trend. It was only marginally more effective with the “visual novel” tag being applied to “point ‘n clicks”.

Basically, at this stage, there’s little you can do to stem the flood. Your only hope is that the community finds a new genre name for “immersive sims” that doesn’t include the word “simulator”.

In general, the “simulator” tag is a disaster area, so sincere condolences for your loss.

Edit: Here's a practical example of when bad tagging actually hurts a game. The members of the Atelier community have tried to get the "nudity" and "mature" tags removed from "Ryza: Ever Darkness & the Secret Hideout" - neither are accurate - but those tags just don't seem to shift. That series has some very unique gameplay and those tags either confuse the target market or leave others feeling very...unsatisfied.

You're not wrong.

It kind of boils down to this.

The term "simulator" is about as vague as the term "game" itself. Try and whittle down games on here with that term ;)

Not even mentioning that the word "simulator", when applied to games. Really do not need any ground in reality.

[crunchyfrog]

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[Jinx]

引用自 Judgmental Amaterasu：

It isn't busted. Users are just putting them on things it doesn't belong. Report the tag.

I disagree, when tags are widely misused and it is brought to the attention of steam, it should alert users who try to suggest those tags of the widespread misuse, give a decent definition, perhaps a definition of what it isn't (eg for immersive sim: "not simply a simulation that is immersive") and then a list of 5 games that well define the genre.