Is the Steam-client switching power-profiles?

[retroquark]

edit: not Steam. Avast has a hidden function (carryover from old "game mode")?

I mean, it clearly does. So the questions I have is something along the lines of:
a) why? Is this helpful for anyone in a real context?
b) how come this is not transparent to the user? A small setting somewhere would be helpful, surely.
c) how is this profile selected? Is it by specific guid, or does it just select something tagged with "high performance"? If my logs are correct, this is a very risky choice that might cause all kinds of acpi-related consistency-issues, if these profiles are actually set.

Thing is that if you have a laptop of some sort, you might have set up your processor/toaster replacement to not hit boost quite as eagerly as Intel wants you to. In order to make the performance in games more consistent. This is going to be an issue on anything, even on i5 dual core, because sustained boosts will make the temperature hit the prochot-limit sooner or later. I have a setup with graphite-pads that is actually handling normal loads on a 30W package, allowing the processor to boost fairly often. But I previously used unicorn-horn grind Arctic Magic Silver goop on this laptop, but I still hit the prochot as it's set up by the monkey the laptop-maker hired to hardset the bios. On my previous quad-core (and this was before the absurd 2x tdp boosts we have now), boosting during game-loads, constant peaking, is just not going to be cooled by such a tiny cooling assembly in the first place. Be aware that your "Gaming nation", Nitro boosted, Mountain-dew sponsored ROG-king laptop is also going to have to obey physics.

So "disabling" boost by lowering the maximum processor states on a multicore laptop is basically going to lower the temperature sufficiently to a point that you will get a) stable performance on the processor. And b) not have the processor overheat the assembly that your graphics card is also attached to. Which then has the graphics card also clock down.

There's a more universal issue as well with that the onboard graphics card is usually put in the same assembly as the main package. So that if you clock the unused intel-graphics up (which "high performance is going to do"), it will happily add 20W to the package for no reason whatsoever.

And if you have a desktop, you might just have one profile set up - balanced/plugged in. And the "high performance" profile is just the standard setup before any settings changed. Where you then might have some issues (like any other computer) when the OS suddenly decides to switch the usb and pci settings for different time-outs or power-levels. Example: you have your VR googles, or gamepad, whatever, working just fine on the desktop. The insert-driver requires some silence on parts of the hub, however - and then somehow you need to reconnect the devices as the power-profile switches, and the software now suddenly struggles to sync.

Now you suddenly have all kinds of things going on just as the game starts, and as it's running. Input lag might be different, issues with particular ports being active and turned on while otherwise off will potentially be fairly massive. And then Steam switches back to the other profile - and poof, back to normal again. Response times normal. And you have no idea what actually happened.

Beyond that - as the ridiculously power-hungry latest gaming-hardware turns up, with more than 2xTDP boosts, and automatic power-profiling targeting boosts innately (on the nvidia cards). It's actually quite common to clock down various hardware fairly heavily, and then get better performance out of it - just like on those insufficiently cooled laptops - because you don't constantly hit the maximum temperature limits this way. I.e., by clocking down the processor and gpu's standard operating level, you hit massively higher and longer sustained boosts during (variable) loads. And so the performance in games (which are not synthetic benchmarks, or the usual number-based ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at Anandtech) rise massively. "Microstutter" can sometimes be completely removed this way, and the typical issues with total performance tanking in 4k can also be resolved.

Because consistent performance at an acceptable level (and not the highest possible level before the cpu catches on fire) is going to give you these couple of seconds long windows for sustained boosts. That otherwise would enable, and then instantly get disabled as the computer hits the temperature throttle levels (that no "typical consumer" is ever going to mess around with).

Indeed, no advanced user is going to mess around with it, either (if they even knew how). Because on the latest insanities of 400W boost type of hexacores from Intel, you just set the next to highest level, and then merely get 300W peaks. Which of course is already good enough to torch your computer, if it wasn't for the temperature limits set on it. Disabling these temperature limits is basically then going to wreck your computer, whether it's cooled by a popsicle or the finest water-cooling kit that African diamond-mine heritages can buy. Physics apply. And you are then basically running without boosts, or microboosts - something that gives you better synthetic scores, but actually causes sustained slowdowns when you get into sub 60fps crunches. Because there's no ceiling to actually leverage the new boosting to infinity type of setups that Intel sells you as "brand new".

In fact, it's more than two decades since you could commonly find Intel-based computers that could max out constantly on normal air-cooling. This is why we no longer have "overclocking" as a hobby, but rather "underclocking".

So: a) make power-profile switching transparent to the user. I have been wondering about why it is that I'm hitting the prochot-variable consistently with the games I play -- which no such thing happens on tests or separate installs. I couldn't figure it out for the longest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time -- and I'm not new to this.

This is also not a trivial issue. It's going to cause Valve support-requests that otherwise would not be there. And it's going to cause issues for power-users who have set up their computer to play games on slight throttles. This costs you money, as people wonder why in the hells their computer is not capable of playing some game or other without slowdowns, in spite of being over the minimum specs. You'll get "cheated users" instantly.

b) encourage users to set these profiles conspicuously. And choose a profile that is actually set by either manufacturer or user. Like said, on a standard install, you might not even see the "high performance" profile in your power-profile setup, because neither you or manufacturer might have seen any point with using it. After all, you might have a throttled laptop, or you just have a desktop with one profile.

Note as well that this profile-switching can cause you all kinds of weird things when manufacturers tie display refresh, colour tone, preferred resolutions even, and so on, to these profiles. Dual screen users - lol, I feel your pain. And if you own a device that is made by any large name in the industry, you will have companion apps that specifically target power-profile sets with their own corresponding ACPI-"requests". Which then may or may not fail spectacularly even before this background switching ever took place.

And try to understand as well that nesting back these profile-switches can cause very unpredictable bugs, so that it might work the first time - and then fail abysmally the second time. This can be things like usb hub drivers, it could be the internal graphics causing issues with intels boneheaded setups there. There's a long range of things that could go really wrong.

Why, Valve? Why add settings switching like this?

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

Also, are you certain you don't have any keyboard shortcuts either through some management software or something else that is conflicting and changes your power profiles?

..I mean, what could it be? A new Windows update "fix", that lets any active graphics-context have the system switch to a "high performance" profile?

Don't think so.

Well, I've had it so yes it DOES happen. One Windows update overwrote my power plan entirely.

Now let's get down to brass tacks.

Your original post was lacking as it showed ZERO evidence for your claim that Steam is causing it. Furthermore, you came ERE for help.

Now when people are saying the same thing to try and work through this, you immediately disagree for reasons and say we're wrong.

If that's the way you treat help, then we're donwe here. I'm not going to waste time on someone who won't try things because they are wrongly understnadning things and unwilling to try.

[retroquark]

Цитата допису my new friend:

What laptop specifically? Did it come with bloatware software to manage performance?

I have an old Asus. It certainly did come with "Splendid" and the various truckloads of absolutely horrible ACPI-breaking scripts. Including a direct ACPI-command to make the processor stall on max speed as the mousepad is scrolling (no joke - they've pushed this upstream with the Windows updates as well. So until earlier this year, this disaster was actually installed on all Asus-laptops, synaptic pad or otherwise).

But no. I don't have that installed on my laptop. And the install I have is not the one the laptop comes with.

Nevertheless - since it's still crapOS in an upgraded incarnation of Windows 98b, it doesn't actually stop any program with admin-access (i.e., everything on the computer) from just launching a powercfg command line, if some absurd tech-person found that to be a good idea.

Only thing I can think of is that it maybe comes with the Steam beta-client stream. But it's not mentioned there in the experimental stuff, is it?

[my new friend]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису my new friend:

What laptop specifically? Did it come with bloatware software to manage performance?

I have an old Asus. It certainly did come with "Splendid" and the various truckloads of absolutely horrible ACPI-breaking scripts. Including a direct ACPI-command to make the processor stall on max speed as the mousepad is scrolling (no joke - they've pushed this upstream with the Windows updates as well. So until earlier this year, this disaster was actually installed on all Asus-laptops, synaptic pad or otherwise).

But no. I don't have that installed on my laptop. And the install I have is not the one the laptop comes with.

Nevertheless - since it's still crapOS in an upgraded incarnation of Windows 98b, it doesn't actually stop any program with admin-access (i.e., everything on the computer) from just launching a powercfg command line, if some absurd tech-person found that to be a good idea.

Only thing I can think of is that it maybe comes with the Steam beta-client stream. But it's not mentioned there in the experimental stuff, is it?

Wait a second. What version of Windows?

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису my new friend:

What laptop specifically? Did it come with bloatware software to manage performance?

I have an old Asus. It certainly did come with "Splendid" and the various truckloads of absolutely horrible ACPI-breaking scripts. Including a direct ACPI-command to make the processor stall on max speed as the mousepad is scrolling (no joke - they've pushed this upstream with the Windows updates as well. So until earlier this year, this disaster was actually installed on all Asus-laptops, synaptic pad or otherwise).

But no. I don't have that installed on my laptop. And the install I have is not the one the laptop comes with.

Nevertheless - since it's still crapOS in an upgraded incarnation of Windows 98b, it doesn't actually stop any program with admin-access (i.e., everything on the computer) from just launching a powercfg command line, if some absurd tech-person found that to be a good idea.

Only thing I can think of is that it maybe comes with the Steam beta-client stream. But it's not mentioned there in the experimental stuff, is it?

So are you going to answer my question?

What happens when you have tried my suggestions?

And I seriously hope that's some weird joke about Windows because if you're using that old a version you're in serious doo doo.

[Nx Machina]

Цитата допису retroquark:

...sure. "A program" does this just at the exact moment steam launches a game, and then switches it back again as the game is closed.

I launch and close games on Steam and do not have the issue, nor has it been an issue for 17+ years so therefore it goes back to some program on your PC.

You did ask a question and it has been answered. That question was - Is the Steam-client switching power-profiles? And the answer is no.

[retroquark]

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

Well, I've had it so yes it DOES happen. One Windows update overwrote my power plan entirely.

Sure. That probably happens often. What I was looking for is something that switches, specifically to the "high performance" profile, exactly at the moment you hit "play" on a game in Steam. That's not something that comes through an update. It also would follow the games that are set up in the power config stuff they've been rolling out outside of Steam, which it doesn't.

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

If that's the way you treat help, then we're donwe here. I'm not going to waste time on someone who won't try things because they are wrongly understnadning things and unwilling to try.

I'm not unwilling to try or look for anything. I have been looking, and there's no app or service that launches this from a registered service, so I'm deducing that it is a command line script via Steam.

I'm posting it here because this is a potential disaster, and may have caused a lot of issues over time, as explained. It should not happen, never mind without being transparent to the user.

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

Well, I've had it so yes it DOES happen. One Windows update overwrote my power plan entirely.

Sure. That probably happens often. What I was looking for is something that switches, specifically to the "high performance" profile, exactly at the moment you hit "play" on a game in Steam. That's not something that comes through an update. It also would follow the games that are set up in the power config stuff they've been rolling out outside of Steam, which it doesn't.

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

If that's the way you treat help, then we're donwe here. I'm not going to waste time on someone who won't try things because they are wrongly understnadning things and unwilling to try.

I'm not unwilling to try or look for anything. I have been looking, and there's no app or service that launches this from a registered service, so I'm deducing that it is a command line script via Steam.

I'm posting it here because this is a potential disaster, and may have caused a lot of issues over time, as explained. It should not happen, never mind without being transparent to the user.

In that case, that could well be either a graphics card management program. They do that.

But again, instead of trying to argue are you going to ever answer and try what I suggested in tracking these down?

I don't know why you are going after Steam because as we pointed out there is ZERO evidence you provided that it's Steam. Just because it happens the same time that is utterly irrelevant.

You're wasting your time there.
So did you come here for help or just to stroke your ego?

I'll give you one last chance or I'm out.

[retroquark]

Цитата допису my new friend:

Wait a second. What version of Windows?

Windows 10. It's a brand new install, that I keep clear of everything custom, for fear of causing some meltdown or other, after changing the font.

Sadly, as it turns out, these meltdowns happen anyway. And frequently are indistinguishable from the intended behaviour of the OS that now is "new and improved".

[retroquark]

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

In that case, that could well be either a graphics card management program. They do that.

They don't. There is a function that Mickeysoft is doing called "game mode", that disables a couple of their "upload your entire harddrive to the cloud, just in case" services, and avoids doing updates in the middle of your boss-fights.

There is another thing they have since basically abandoned in "graphics settings" that was supposed to mesh with nvidia profiles, but no longer does so (after a few weeks of it just overwriting the whole thing).

But neither of these actually change the power-profiles. So it's not that. The xbox game-bar (necessary if you want to play with some gamepad or other, even if it's got nothing to do with the xbone, also has detection software that "smartly detects" whenever something is done in the foreground. But it also does not actually change the power-profiles.

Again, it's not consistent for all exclusive screen contexts, or 3d games. And also does not happen when the same game is launched outside Steam.

So yes, I've checked. I'm left with one option, that it is a powercfg /setactive GUID command in there somewhere in the open and close scripts in the Steam client.

What else could it be? Nothing does this(not that I have any other candidates installed). For good reason. Like, this is not good. Not quite on the level of "oops, we seem to have lost your home address and credit card number that we've stored unsecured on our servers for years and years and not actually thought that much about.. sorry!". But it's kind of serious. This could cause some pretty bad problems, as I described in the top there.

But again, instead of trying to argue are you going to ever answer and try what I suggested in tracking these down?

XD I'm not going to systematically look everywhere else under the assumption that it can't possible be Steam, no. And then keep looking until such a time I can pin it on something else. Not helpful. Not logical.

[Crazy Tiger]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису Crazy Tiger:

In 10+ years Steam never has changed any power plan on any desktop/laptop in the house for me or my kids.

That's probably true. But it does change it back again. So unless you start the game, switch out, specifically go into power profiles and check the profile settings of the profile that is now "active" -- you would never see it, or have any messages about it. There's no system message, because Steam's overlay probably just allows itself a command-line switch through powercfg /setactive GUID

I'm not sure you guys quite understand why this is a problem.

Actually I have checked power plan settings while games through Steam were active. I'm even running a game as I post this and have my power plan settings open. My customised plan always is active, as is it now.

It doesn't happen.

[retroquark]

Цитата допису Crazy Tiger:

It doesn't happen.

..so Avast has something called "do not disturb mode". It has added that game I played in this list it has - and then somehow missed the app-id of the other copy I used to test.

That would at least explain the exception. *sigh* I installed avast to not have the default virus program spin constantly on my laptop. And then turned everything off. So that was a mixed success..

edit: oh, yeah. At "do not disturb mode", ...'s and there's a checkbox. No events, and no logs.

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису Crazy Tiger:

It doesn't happen.

..so Avast has something called "do not disturb mode". It has added that game I played in this list it has - and then somehow missed the app-id of the other copy I used to test.

That would at least explain the exception. *sigh* I installed avast to not have the default virus program spin constantly on my laptop. And then turned everything off. So that was a mixed success..

edit: oh, yeah. At "do not disturb mode", ...'s and there's a checkbox. No events, and no logs.

Oh quelle surprise - so IT WAS some security or management software as we kept telling you.

It's almost like we know what we're talking about isn't it?

[Andy]

Цитата допису retroquark:

Цитата допису Nx Machina:

A program on your PC because in 17+ years of using Steam, my power profiles have not changed.

...sure. "A program" does this just at the exact moment steam launches a game, and then switches it back again as the game is closed.

Use a event viewer, event viewer list all things Tha happens in the background so u can see whatever is happening in you system, a event viewer only list events, its included with windows but u can Dowload a tool called process monitor it and it show exactly everything a process does in the background even if it alter a registry key or what bytes got read or write from memory, that way you will find exactly what when and how the power profile is getting switched.

[retroquark]

Цитата допису Andy:

that way you will find exactly what when and how the power profile is getting switched.

Seems it's a service (Avast) that just looks up the uid of the executable when you run something in full screen. If it's matched in the list, it switches things then (along with a truckload of other configs, that stop... not an exhaustive list.. file indexing, update service, driver database indexing for future update check, and a very insistent check about why I'm not using bing more.

And.. then Steam is sending my controller usage stats to Sweden for some reason.

Then it switches the profile back once the executable is no longer running. The profile switching at least doesn't trigger on context change.

So, in the end, this is sort of useful? >_< ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Thanks, though. At least I figured out what it was. I don't understand why it only launched when the game was launched from Steam, though. (Possibly.. not a candidate for avast's list if the game doesn't open a fullscreen-context?)

[Muppet among Puppets]

One programm you never expect it from does this.
It enables full energy setting in windows. Each time it was open.

Its a programm to handle ssd.