Is the Steam-client switching power-profiles?

[retroquark]

edit: not Steam. Avast has a hidden function (carryover from old "game mode")?

I mean, it clearly does. So the questions I have is something along the lines of:
a) why? Is this helpful for anyone in a real context?
b) how come this is not transparent to the user? A small setting somewhere would be helpful, surely.
c) how is this profile selected? Is it by specific guid, or does it just select something tagged with "high performance"? If my logs are correct, this is a very risky choice that might cause all kinds of acpi-related consistency-issues, if these profiles are actually set.

Thing is that if you have a laptop of some sort, you might have set up your processor/toaster replacement to not hit boost quite as eagerly as Intel wants you to. In order to make the performance in games more consistent. This is going to be an issue on anything, even on i5 dual core, because sustained boosts will make the temperature hit the prochot-limit sooner or later. I have a setup with graphite-pads that is actually handling normal loads on a 30W package, allowing the processor to boost fairly often. But I previously used unicorn-horn grind Arctic Magic Silver goop on this laptop, but I still hit the prochot as it's set up by the monkey the laptop-maker hired to hardset the bios. On my previous quad-core (and this was before the absurd 2x tdp boosts we have now), boosting during game-loads, constant peaking, is just not going to be cooled by such a tiny cooling assembly in the first place. Be aware that your "Gaming nation", Nitro boosted, Mountain-dew sponsored ROG-king laptop is also going to have to obey physics.

So "disabling" boost by lowering the maximum processor states on a multicore laptop is basically going to lower the temperature sufficiently to a point that you will get a) stable performance on the processor. And b) not have the processor overheat the assembly that your graphics card is also attached to. Which then has the graphics card also clock down.

There's a more universal issue as well with that the onboard graphics card is usually put in the same assembly as the main package. So that if you clock the unused intel-graphics up (which "high performance is going to do"), it will happily add 20W to the package for no reason whatsoever.

And if you have a desktop, you might just have one profile set up - balanced/plugged in. And the "high performance" profile is just the standard setup before any settings changed. Where you then might have some issues (like any other computer) when the OS suddenly decides to switch the usb and pci settings for different time-outs or power-levels. Example: you have your VR googles, or gamepad, whatever, working just fine on the desktop. The insert-driver requires some silence on parts of the hub, however - and then somehow you need to reconnect the devices as the power-profile switches, and the software now suddenly struggles to sync.

Now you suddenly have all kinds of things going on just as the game starts, and as it's running. Input lag might be different, issues with particular ports being active and turned on while otherwise off will potentially be fairly massive. And then Steam switches back to the other profile - and poof, back to normal again. Response times normal. And you have no idea what actually happened.

Beyond that - as the ridiculously power-hungry latest gaming-hardware turns up, with more than 2xTDP boosts, and automatic power-profiling targeting boosts innately (on the nvidia cards). It's actually quite common to clock down various hardware fairly heavily, and then get better performance out of it - just like on those insufficiently cooled laptops - because you don't constantly hit the maximum temperature limits this way. I.e., by clocking down the processor and gpu's standard operating level, you hit massively higher and longer sustained boosts during (variable) loads. And so the performance in games (which are not synthetic benchmarks, or the usual number-based ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at Anandtech) rise massively. "Microstutter" can sometimes be completely removed this way, and the typical issues with total performance tanking in 4k can also be resolved.

Because consistent performance at an acceptable level (and not the highest possible level before the cpu catches on fire) is going to give you these couple of seconds long windows for sustained boosts. That otherwise would enable, and then instantly get disabled as the computer hits the temperature throttle levels (that no "typical consumer" is ever going to mess around with).

Indeed, no advanced user is going to mess around with it, either (if they even knew how). Because on the latest insanities of 400W boost type of hexacores from Intel, you just set the next to highest level, and then merely get 300W peaks. Which of course is already good enough to torch your computer, if it wasn't for the temperature limits set on it. Disabling these temperature limits is basically then going to wreck your computer, whether it's cooled by a popsicle or the finest water-cooling kit that African diamond-mine heritages can buy. Physics apply. And you are then basically running without boosts, or microboosts - something that gives you better synthetic scores, but actually causes sustained slowdowns when you get into sub 60fps crunches. Because there's no ceiling to actually leverage the new boosting to infinity type of setups that Intel sells you as "brand new".

In fact, it's more than two decades since you could commonly find Intel-based computers that could max out constantly on normal air-cooling. This is why we no longer have "overclocking" as a hobby, but rather "underclocking".

So: a) make power-profile switching transparent to the user. I have been wondering about why it is that I'm hitting the prochot-variable consistently with the games I play -- which no such thing happens on tests or separate installs. I couldn't figure it out for the longest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time -- and I'm not new to this.

This is also not a trivial issue. It's going to cause Valve support-requests that otherwise would not be there. And it's going to cause issues for power-users who have set up their computer to play games on slight throttles. This costs you money, as people wonder why in the hells their computer is not capable of playing some game or other without slowdowns, in spite of being over the minimum specs. You'll get "cheated users" instantly.

b) encourage users to set these profiles conspicuously. And choose a profile that is actually set by either manufacturer or user. Like said, on a standard install, you might not even see the "high performance" profile in your power-profile setup, because neither you or manufacturer might have seen any point with using it. After all, you might have a throttled laptop, or you just have a desktop with one profile.

Note as well that this profile-switching can cause you all kinds of weird things when manufacturers tie display refresh, colour tone, preferred resolutions even, and so on, to these profiles. Dual screen users - lol, I feel your pain. And if you own a device that is made by any large name in the industry, you will have companion apps that specifically target power-profile sets with their own corresponding ACPI-"requests". Which then may or may not fail spectacularly even before this background switching ever took place.

And try to understand as well that nesting back these profile-switches can cause very unpredictable bugs, so that it might work the first time - and then fail abysmally the second time. This can be things like usb hub drivers, it could be the internal graphics causing issues with intels boneheaded setups there. There's a long range of things that could go really wrong.

Why, Valve? Why add settings switching like this?

[my new friend]

I have never heard of anyone claim that Steam does this. In fact, I hear complaints, "why doesn't Steam doesn't do this?"
Change your gpu control panel settings.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by retroquark:

I mean, it clearly does.

It doesn't.

Originally posted by retroquark:

Thing is that if you have a laptop of some sort, you might have set up your processor/toaster replacement to not hit boost quite as eagerly as Intel wants you to.

Temperatures can throttle, throttling can look like changing power modes.
Also running on battery changes the plan, plugging it in changes it as well (typically).

the rest is just a wall of text for no seeming reason by not understanding your system(s) or how to keep temps lower.

[Crazy Tiger]

A lot of rambling but nothing that actually supports the claim the OP makes.

In 10+ years Steam never has changed any power plan on any desktop/laptop in the house for me or my kids.

[Reggaejunkiedrew]

This is a whole lot of text based on an untrue assumption.

[MoonC A T]

Tsunami grade wall of text.

Quick answer...NO

[retroquark]

Originally posted by my new friend:

I have never heard of anyone claim that Steam does this. In fact, I hear complaints, "why doesn't Steam doesn't do this?"
Change your gpu control panel settings.

There are a few other mentions about it here on the Steam forums.

And it's consistent when using Steam to launch games. It consistently selects the specific profile, presumably by guid, that will be there on a standard install.

Although I'm certain we could combine the "complaints" you've heard with solving the problem here, by just making that setting transparent to the user.

The nvidia or amd control panel doesn't have anything to do with a) intel's on-board graphics, or b) cpu going to boost or not. So I'm not sure why you would think that would solve anything.

Read what I wrote. And then try to understand the reason why it had to be a little bit long.

[retroquark]

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

In 10+ years Steam never has changed any power plan on any desktop/laptop in the house for me or my kids.

That's probably true. But it does change it back again. So unless you start the game, switch out, specifically go into power profiles and check the profile settings of the profile that is now "active" -- you would never see it, or have any messages about it. There's no system message, because Steam's overlay probably just allows itself a command-line switch through powercfg /setactive GUID

I'm not sure you guys quite understand why this is a problem.

[Nx Machina]

Is the Steam-client switching power-profiles?

No.

[retroquark]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Is the Steam-client switching power-profiles?

No.

Then what is? The game is not doing it if not launched through the Steam overlay. There are no other programs I have that could possibly be doing this, never mind exactly when Steam is launching a game.

So what is doing it?

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by retroquark:

Then what is? The game is not doing it if not launched through the Steam overlay. There are no other programs I have that could possibly be doing this, never mind exactly when Steam is launching a game.

So what is doing it?

A program on your PC because in 17+ years of using Steam, my power profiles have not changed.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by retroquark:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

In 10+ years Steam never has changed any power plan on any desktop/laptop in the house for me or my kids.

That's probably true. But it does change it back again. So unless you start the game, switch out, specifically go into power profiles and check the profile settings of the profile that is now "active" -- you would never see it, or have any messages about it. There's no system message, because Steam's overlay probably just allows itself a command-line switch through powercfg /setactive GUID

I'm not sure you guys quite understand why this is a problem.

Well, the thing is that does not demonstrate Steam IS the problem.

More likely something else on your system is playing around with settings. So you should find out what that is, because we've never heard of Steam doing anything like that in all the years most of here have been on here.

Could be some crapware like your PC's manufacturer's suite of software or some other management stuff. Impossible to say without seeing your PC. BUt it ain't Steam, I can almost be certain on that.

And from what you've exlpained there's no evidence you've shown it is at all.

Also, are you certain you don't have any keyboard shortcuts either through some management software or something else that is conflicting and changes your power profiles?

[retroquark]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

A program on your PC because in 17+ years of using Steam, my power profiles have not changed.

...sure. "A program" does this just at the exact moment steam launches a game, and then switches it back again as the game is closed.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by retroquark:

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

A program on your PC because in 17+ years of using Steam, my power profiles have not changed.

...sure. "A program" does this just at the exact moment steam launches a game, and then switches it back again as the game is closed.

Correlation does NOT equal causation. That's why you don't understand this.

So have you tried as I suggested?

[my new friend]

What laptop specifically? Did it come with bloatware software to manage performance?

[retroquark]

Originally posted by crunchyfrog:

Also, are you certain you don't have any keyboard shortcuts either through some management software or something else that is conflicting and changes your power profiles?

..I mean, what could it be? A new Windows update "fix", that lets any active graphics-context have the system switch to a "high performance" profile?

Don't think so.