A question. So when a game releases a DLC and that DLC content is put on my drive...

[BigRowdy]

even if I never plan on purchasing it...Is that a developer thing or a steam thing?

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por BigRowdy:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Erm, no that's not how it works. Some are trying to intriduce draconian ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ into terms, but they've always done that since the dawn of video games. I have contract terms from games I bought in the 1980s that are just as wild and stupid. It's ALWAYS been a thing.

Digtal goods ARE different, and you will get conditions that you feel smart. But it's always swings and roundabouts. It isn't the slippery slope you think it is.

Maybe but I have witnessed it moving in that direction.

No, you witnessed just normal behaviour. It has ALWAYS been thus.

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Publicado originalmente por BigRowdy:

Maybe but I have witnessed it moving in that direction.

No, you witnessed just normal behaviour. It has ALWAYS been thus.

Hmm kinda weird you telling me what I experienced, guess were done.

[Sasori Kigaru]

Publicado originalmente por BigRowdy:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

No, you witnessed just normal behaviour. It has ALWAYS been thus.

Hmm kinda weird you telling me what I experienced, guess were done.

More so him telling you what you've been experiencing if you paid attention to how things worked in the past, and how they work now. He isn't wrong, you've only ever owned a licence to use the software (games in this case) as intended. With physical discs, the only thing you even own is the disc itself, you don't own the software or what is ON the disc. This is why used games are a thing when it comes to physical copies, and is why they are no longer a thing when it comes to the online retail world.

This is also true for ToS, as every ToS is mainly about giving a company the most amount of leg room possible when it comes their products and what they want consumers to do with it. Lots of them are crazy sounding, though there are occasionally some that're more reasonable but all in all they serve the same purpose.

You could research this yourself if you're curious but what you've been told has been pretty spot on.

[grovercleavland0]

huh, to bad Valve forces updates. If they didn't force updates, then the OP could have kept the version that is already on his PC since he didn't need the update at all, and saved himself time and disk space.

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Sasori Kigaru:

Publicado originalmente por BigRowdy:

Hmm kinda weird you telling me what I experienced, guess were done.

More so him telling you what you've been experiencing if you paid attention to how things worked in the past, and how they work now. He isn't wrong, you've only ever owned a licence to use the software (games in this case) as intended. With physical discs, the only thing you even own is the disc itself, you don't own the software or what is ON the disc. This is why used games are a thing when it comes to physical copies, and is why they are no longer a thing when it comes to the online retail world.

This is also true for ToS, as every ToS is mainly about giving a company the most amount of leg room possible when it comes their products and what they want consumers to do with it. Lots of them are crazy sounding, though there are occasionally some that're more reasonable but all in all they serve the same purpose.

You could research this yourself if you're curious but what you've been told has been pretty spot on.

The difference being with a disk I purchased the software for my personal use and my use could never be 'cut off' by the company. Of course I dont own the legal rights to the media that is not the issue. According to what you guys are saying if I buy a car I dont really own that car but am just renting the rights to use it. If I buy a TV I dont own it but just paid a lump sum for a rental. What you guys are reffering to in the legalese is I dont have the right to take the software, alter it and publish it. That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about slowly evolving aggressive legalese that states they can terminate your ability to play the game, not alter, not republish, just play the game. It is NOT the same thing. If you do some research you can find examples of ever encroaching EULA terms.

[JVC]

Publicado originalmente por grovercleavland0:

huh, to bad Valve forces updates. If they didn't force updates, then the OP could have kept the version that is already on his PC since he didn't need the update at all, and saved himself time and disk space.

Steam's entire reason for existing was to supply updated version to their games.

No, it makes perfect sense. Since idiots would keep complaining about "broken games" because they'd deliberately turned off updates, so they'd keep complaining about stuff that had been fixed ages ago. Deliberately keeping old bugs only leads to more work for customer service guys and no consumer want to pay for unnecessary customer service work.

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por JVC:

Publicado originalmente por grovercleavland0:

huh, to bad Valve forces updates. If they didn't force updates, then the OP could have kept the version that is already on his PC since he didn't need the update at all, and saved himself time and disk space.

Steam's entire reason for existing was to supply updated version to their games.

No, it makes perfect sense. Since idiots would keep complaining about "broken games" because they'd deliberately turned off updates, so they'd keep complaining about stuff that had been fixed ages ago. Deliberately keeping old bugs only leads to more work for customer service guys and no consumer want to pay for unnecessary customer service work.

Excuse me. Steams entire reason for existing is to make money. That is why they keep abandoned games on the store for years despite a plethora of complaints that the devs took off.

I see your point. The old "people can't be trusted to know how to take care of themselves."

I live in America gotta whole generation of people buying into that crap. Generation tox.

Now I dont know what you experienced, but I have never seen steam support go out of their way for something that is a dev issue. Steam's role in all things..provide a digital platform and take 30% flat rate. Everything game related is the developers responsibility. Everything account related, after all thats where their money comes from, is steam support. Maybe some moderation issues but they play the AT&T support game.

For MP games updates are a must and nobody wants to play with bugs, but packing updates within 10 GB of DLC that some are never going to use is just wrong. So say 20 MB of updates but it comes with 10 GB of luggage.
But what is worse is somehow convincing people that this is the right thing to do.
Lets take ARK for example. Over 200 GB because all the DLC's are downloaded to your rig whether you want to spend the extra $150+ or not. The DLC's have patches included that are free. But it is not a separate download when DLC's come out its all lumped together. It is adding a rider to a bill. A very massive rider. The ethical thing to do would be to release the patches separately, like they do normally.Then release the DLC content on its own for those who intend to use it. But when its DLC time..well an elephant comes in the room with current patches.
And somehow people champion this behavior...More like "Get on board man just take your screwing and shut up" " how dare you rattle the cage"

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

Here's what you can do about it TC. Give them less money. Wait for sales, buy games from cheap key websites, etc, if you even buy them at all.

The more restrictive and imposing developers and publishers get, the less money I'm inclined to give them.

I'm only allotted a temporary license for a game that's $60 retail? Maybe I'll just wait and buy a cheap key for $5, if this is only a glorified rental period, because $5 is about what I paid to rent a game back in the day. That's called sticking it to them. If more people did this, the whole industry would change, and any profitable game would have to be subscription based, or free to play + pay to win with MTX. That would also kill off piracy once and for all. I think this is where things are going, honestly.

Agree for the most part
But to be clear I am not against Publisher completely. There is some legalese that needs to be in place for their own protection. It is just a trend in all things really where the Huge megaliths are starting to overstep their bounds. I certainly dont want to hurt the small guys, it is almost always a company like EA. When the EULA is 15 pages I would take notice.

[Sasori Kigaru]

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

Here's what you can do about it TC. Give them less money. Wait for sales, buy games from cheap key websites, etc, if you even buy them at all.

The more restrictive and imposing developers and publishers get, the less money I'm inclined to give them.

I'm only allotted a temporary license for a game that's $60 retail? Maybe I'll just wait and buy a cheap key for $5, if this is only a glorified rental period, because $5 is about what I paid to rent a game back in the day. That's called sticking it to them, but only temporarily, because If most people did this, the whole industry would change, and any profitable game would have to be subscription based, or free to play + pay to win with MTX. That would also kill off piracy once and for all. I think this is where things are going, honestly.

Aye, voting with your wallet is always the best course of action, just wish more people would actually do so but generally things have to get extremely bad first. Here's to hoping though.

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Sasori Kigaru:

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

Here's what you can do about it TC. Give them less money. Wait for sales, buy games from cheap key websites, etc, if you even buy them at all.

The more restrictive and imposing developers and publishers get, the less money I'm inclined to give them.

I'm only allotted a temporary license for a game that's $60 retail? Maybe I'll just wait and buy a cheap key for $5, if this is only a glorified rental period, because $5 is about what I paid to rent a game back in the day. That's called sticking it to them, but only temporarily, because If most people did this, the whole industry would change, and any profitable game would have to be subscription based, or free to play + pay to win with MTX. That would also kill off piracy once and for all. I think this is where things are going, honestly.

Aye, voting with your wallet is always the best course of action, just wish more people would actually do so but generally things have to get extremely bad first. Here's to hoping though.

Amen. EA sports for example has this cult following that WANTS to be abused every year so they keep giving money to the same game with a different number on the box

[BigRowdy]

Thank everyone for your viewpoints. I love learning stuff and I always do with questions and discussions like these. Everyone have a good day/night.

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

There's unfortunately some highly profitable games that use a free to play model. All it takes is a few people proving the viability with profits and results. Just take a look at Genshin Impact. I think it's a trash game, only weebs and simps would play, but I can't argue with its profitability.

LOL..definitely out now. these are not terms for the old. I dont know what GI is or a weeb, know simp though..anyway just struck me as funny.. Cheers

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

Publicado originalmente por BigRowdy:

Amen. EA sports for example has this cult following that WANTS to be abused every year so they keep giving money to the same game with a different number on the box

Gamers keep getting screwed, because developers keep shoveling out slop into a trough, ring the dinner bell, and the pigs come running in all hyped up for their slop. Repeat ad infinitum. There's a reason why corporations treat the masses like they're idiots.

Yep like I said they love the abuse. All it would take is a 1 year boycott of say Madden. People beg others, petitions are made against the company, those sheeple agree not to purchase this year and then BAM1 one commercial and the herd rushes to buy the same broken game as the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that....not ever realizing its broken on purpose so you will come back next year hoping for a fix....

[BigRowdy]

Publicado originalmente por Hero of Kenosha:

The best time to buy a game is 1 year+ after it launched, so most of the bugs and performance issues are fixed, the DLC drops, and you can pick up a key for the actual full game at a discount.

Buying a game at launch any more means you're basically an unpaid beta tester. Not only do they not pay you, but they demand you pay them MORE for the honor of beta testing a "full release game".

Yes not to mention the 'release it broken and then patch it' trend of late.

[Aahzmandias]

Publicado originalmente por Overseer:

That's on the developer. And since you get that data for free you have no ground to object it.

Wrong. It wastes space. Space on a SSD is still limited.