Has Putin grabbed Owlcat Games

[ste3e]

This might be paranoia on my part, but I am concerned over the new end user license required to access the latest download of Pathfinder WOTR. Specifically clause 3.1 which states:

3.1 The User hereby agrees that Owlcat Games may collect, store for an indefinite term and otherwise process anonymous information on the Software using by the User, information on hardware and software installed on the User's Device, and any other anonymous technical and statistical information, which Owlcat Games needs in order to identify and eliminate problems with operation of the Software, to improve the Software, and for marketing purposes. Thereby, the User hereby agrees that Owcat Games has the right to upload software programs to User's Device, that will record CPU, RAM, operating system, video card, software and application of the other developers, peripherals, geolocation and any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer. The User also agrees that Owlcat shall have the right to transfer the said anonymous information to its subcontractors, performing Game development, and vendors providing services necessary for operation of the Game.

My concerns are :
1) Why are they asking to upload software to grab information about other developers?
2) Why do they want permission to access "anonymous technical and statistical information" from my computer? Surely that includes any data on my computer.
3) Why should all information on my computer be accessible by them and then be transferable to any "vendor providing services necessary for operation of the Game", when that vendor might be the Russian government?
4) Lastly it is odd that a legal document written by Owlcat Games should refer to its own company as "Owlcat" as it does in the last sentence.

Would steam allow for any such violations, even if the User signed up for them? Is this contract standard in the industry? I have never seen such requirements before.

[UberFiend]

Sounds like the first EULA you've actually read.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

I'm guessing this is the first time you've read a EULA. That's pretty standard in all of them.

[Oz Gaming]

Your Paranoid OP

[UberFiend]

Originally posted by Oz Gaming:

Your Paranoid OP

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

[Chika Ogiue]

Originally posted by ste3e:

1) Why are they asking to upload software to grab information about other developers?

The same reason Valve and any other developer of online games does, to detect cheats created by third parties.

Originally posted by ste3e:

4) Lastly it is odd that a legal document written by Owlcat Games should refer to its own company as "Owlcat" as it does in the last sentence.

Not odd. It's a legal document and this is very normal for a legal document.

You'd know this if you had read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, for example. Did you not read it when you made your account?

[rawWwRrr]

Zenimax EULA:

5. COLLECTION AND USE OF DATA

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE ZENIMAX PRIVACY POLICY [[url]https://bethesda.net/en/document/privacy-policy[/url]] WHICH EXPLAINS HOW WE MAY COLLECT, USE AND DISCLOSE DATA ABOUT YOU (INCLUDING PERSONAL DATA). IN PARTICULAR ZENIMAX WILL USE YOUR DATA (INCLUDING PERSONAL DATA) TO OPERATE THE SERVICES, TO FACILITATE PRODUCT SUPPORT, DEVELOPMENT AND IMPROVEMENT, TO TAILOR AND CUSTOMIZE YOUR EXPERIENCES AND UNDERSTAND WHICH ZENIMAX PRODUCTS YOU ARE USING, AS WELL AS TO PROVIDE OTHER SERVICES TO YOU. YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD OUR COOKIE POLICY [[url]http://bethesda.net/en/document/cookie-policy[/url]] AND AGREE THAT WE MAY USE COOKIES, WEB BEACONS AND OTHER ANALYTIC TECHNOLOGIES (HEREIN, COLLECTIVELY “COOKIES”) – INCLUDING THOSE PROVIDED BY THIRD PARTIES – TO COLLECT, USE, STORE AND TRANSMIT TECHNICAL AND OTHER INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR MOBILE OR OTHER DEVICE (INCLUDING MAC ADDRESS UNIQUE DEVICE ID OR OTHER IDENTIFIER, UDID, XUID, AND/OR PUID), GAME CENTER ID, GAME CENTER NAME, IP ADDRESS, GEO-LOCATION, DEVICE MAKE AND MODEL, OPERATING SYSTEM, SOFTWARE AND APPLICATIONS, GAME PLAY/USAGE DATA, THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT AUTHORIZATION DATA, SESSION DATA, BROWSER IDENTIFIERS, CONNECTION TYPE AND CARRIER INFORMATION. YOU AGREE TO OUR USE OF COOKIES AS DESCRIBED HEREIN AND IN MORE DETAIL IN OUR COOKIE POLICY, WHICH EXPLAINS YOUR OPTIONS ON OUR USE OF COOKIES.

[ste3e]

I am not sure that the EULA agreement does not justify my concerns. A cookie is not software uploaded onto a device that is able to access personal information. It is browser software that might grab system information. Cookie protocol is supposed to be such that personal data is off limits.

At the very least the legal document is imprecise. If by "uploaded software" they mean cookies then they should say so. Furthermore, to repeat the quote, "any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer".

But I thank the posters. At least I will not be alone in placing my head between the bear's jaws.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Originally posted by ste3e:

I am not sure that the EULA agreement does not justify my concerns. A cookie is not software uploaded onto a device that is able to access personal information. It is browser software that might grab system information. Cookie protocol is supposed to be such that personal data is off limits.

At the very least the legal document is imprecise. If by "uploaded software" they mean cookies then they should say so. Furthermore, to repeat the quote, "any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer".

Literally every EULA reads like that.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by UberFiend:

Originally posted by Oz Gaming:

Your Paranoid OP

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Maybe not, but reading something you don't understand and assuming it's bad instead of accepting you don't know is a fallacy :)

[IFIYGD]

Now go read the EULA for your Operating System, every piece of hardware that requires drivers and installation software, every browser you use, every email provider you use, and every program you have ever installed on your device- this includes computers and mobile devices, smart home devices, smart tech in cars, routers, broadband phone and television systems...
Have you never read a EULA for anything you use or have installed before?
Telemetry helps software and hardware developers see what types of systems are using their software or hardware, how well it runs, if it has conflicts with other commonly installed hardware or software, if bugs happen on specific device builds but not others, where their products are being installed and used most, etc., and to be able to make fixes and corrections for conflicts, bugs and incompatibility issues, and more- without having to send out thousands, hundreds-of-thousands, or millions of emails or paper forms asking for users to tell them all the details they need to make their hardware or software work correctly. Because many people will not give all pertinent details, while the software can collect what it needs to perform diagnosis of anomalies, conflicts, bugs, and incompatibility issues, in seconds or minutes, instead of weeks, months or years.
Seriously, if telemetry (analytics) software bothers you greatly, you should probably never use a computer or computer-driven/connected device again.

[Γαῖα]

Welcome OP to the life that is legally binding agreements/contracts.

The process bar a little research until you are somewhat in the know is rather simple. You either agree to the terms or simply walk away. While it is legal to discuss better terms, no one offering most contracts will budge an inch. Its a take it or leave it thing im afraid no matter the stance you take.

If this blows your mind, your going to totally lose it when you find out what assumed consent is all about.

[rawWwRrr]

Originally posted by ste3e:

I am not sure that the EULA agreement does not justify my concerns. A cookie is not software uploaded onto a device that is able to access personal information. It is browser software that might grab system information. Cookie protocol is supposed to be such that personal data is off limits.

At the very least the legal document is imprecise. If by "uploaded software" they mean cookies then they should say so. Furthermore, to repeat the quote, "any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer".

But I thank the posters. At least I will not be alone in placing my head between the bear's jaws.

You're focusing too much on the term of "cookie" in my example. My point with Zenimax's EULA is to show that what you found in Owlcat Games' EULA is not unique. There is always a clause about gathering data from you through the use of their software. You asked if it was standard in the industry. Yes, it is, as you can see from Zenimax's EULA.

Owlcat's "any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer" is synonymous with Zenimax's "TO COLLECT, USE, STORE AND TRANSMIT TECHNICAL AND OTHER INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR MOBILE OR OTHER DEVICE (INCLUDING MAC ADDRESS UNIQUE DEVICE ID OR OTHER IDENTIFIER, UDID, XUID, AND/OR PUID), GAME CENTER ID, GAME CENTER NAME, IP ADDRESS, GEO-LOCATION, DEVICE MAKE AND MODEL, OPERATING SYSTEM, SOFTWARE AND APPLICATIONS, GAME PLAY/USAGE DATA, THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT AUTHORIZATION DATA, SESSION DATA, BROWSER IDENTIFIERS, CONNECTION TYPE AND CARRIER INFORMATION." Owlcat's is more generic while Zenimax spells out specific data but if you read all of the specifics it encompasses everything you could get from a computer.

You also missed how Zenimax had defined cookie to include "COOKIES, WEB BEACONS AND OTHER ANALYTIC TECHNOLOGIES (HEREIN, COLLECTIVELY “COOKIES”)", so a "cookie" from that point on just becomes a legal condensed word that includes anything that could possibly be used to collect all of that data.

[primeinsurrection]

All of the other governments have had access to all the computers since AOL.

[Your Mom's Oshi]

What does a standard clause in an eula have to do with Putin?

[blunus]

Originally posted by ste3e:

I am not sure that the EULA agreement does not justify my concerns. A cookie is not software uploaded onto a device that is able to access personal information. It is browser software that might grab system information. Cookie protocol is supposed to be such that personal data is off limits.

At the very least the legal document is imprecise. If by "uploaded software" they mean cookies then they should say so. Furthermore, to repeat the quote, "any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer".

But I thank the posters. At least I will not be alone in placing my head between the bear's jaws.

Did you know Steam does collect your data the moment you create an account, right? So as other devs do when you launch any game. Even paranoid users aren't unaware of what Steam is doing but become pissed when any Sony game such as Horizon Zero Dawn collects data, for example.

If EULA bothers your privacy so much, block outgoing connections from companies or don't play games at all.