Why doesn't Steam get the platinum trophy from PS for getting all achievements for many games?

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

I noticed quite a few games I have are missing the achievement that is unlocked when you unlock all other achievements, referred to as "platinum" trophy on PlayStation.

Not that this really matters since I'm not an achievement hunter anyway, but it just seems weird that developers go out of their way to remove an achievement for Steam.

Just to name a few games I have that don't have this ultimate achievement:
- Resident evil 2 and 3 remake
- Hitman reboot games
- Dishonored games
- AC Odyssey and Origin

[Timoh]

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

well obviously i'm not saying Steam should just implement a "platinum trophy", it doesn't even have a trophy system so it would make no sense. But instead be like game devs who make an extra achievement that unlocks when you have all other achievements like some games already do on Steam.

You're missing the point. Copyrights don't work like that.

It's not just the platinum trophy or the artwork that is maybe copyrighted. It's the concept. I tried to make this clear from the Namco example.

In your assessment, any other company like Konami say, could use their old arcade games like Scramble to bung in a loading screen, but they cannot, because the CONCEPT is sewn up.

That's the problem.

We are talking about processes and design choices here, not products. From laws perspective there's no copyright involved, just patents. Patents are usually extremely expensive and time consuming. I heavily doubt Sony would invest into patenting the trivial Platinum trophy process. Another hurdle would be that similiar processes were already part of other platforms in the past, which makes the patent approval process even harder.

[crunchyfrog]

Escrito originalmente por Kodeäffchen:

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

You're missing the point. Copyrights don't work like that.

It's not just the platinum trophy or the artwork that is maybe copyrighted. It's the concept. I tried to make this clear from the Namco example.

In your assessment, any other company like Konami say, could use their old arcade games like Scramble to bung in a loading screen, but they cannot, because the CONCEPT is sewn up.

That's the problem.

We are talking about processes and design choices here, not products. From laws perspective there's no copyright involved, just patents. Patents are usually extremely expensive and time consuming. I heavily doubt Sony would invest into patenting the trivial Platinum trophy process. Another hurdle would be that similiar processes were already part of other platforms in the past, which makes the patent approval process even harder.

Maybe and maybe not. That's the point. I CLEARLY said might and emphasised that.

I pointedou that Namco did this for loading screens as ONE example, so it could be a thing.

And the fact that nobody else has dared to copy it does seem rather unusual, no?

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Escrito originalmente por Kodeäffchen:

We are talking about processes and design choices here, not products. From laws perspective there's no copyright involved, just patents. Patents are usually extremely expensive and time consuming. I heavily doubt Sony would invest into patenting the trivial Platinum trophy process. Another hurdle would be that similiar processes were already part of other platforms in the past, which makes the patent approval process even harder.

Maybe and maybe not. That's the point. I CLEARLY said might and emphasised that.

I pointedou that Namco did this for loading screens as ONE example, so it could be a thing.

And the fact that nobody else has dared to copy it does seem rather unusual, no?

I think you are missing the fact that there are many Steam games that already have imported their exact PS trophies onto Steam and there has been zero legal issue. Like I said, it's not all games that are missing this "supposedly PS-exclusive trophy" that only unlocks when you get all other trophies. Many games on Steam do have it, and it's called an achievement isntead. Has Sony done something about it? No.

[crunchyfrog]

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Maybe and maybe not. That's the point. I CLEARLY said might and emphasised that.

I pointedou that Namco did this for loading screens as ONE example, so it could be a thing.

And the fact that nobody else has dared to copy it does seem rather unusual, no?

I think you are missing the fact that there are many Steam games that already have imported their exact PS trophies onto Steam and there has been zero legal issue. Like I said, it's not all games that are missing this "supposedly PS-exclusive trophy" that only unlocks when you get all other trophies. Many games on Steam do have it, and it's called an achievement isntead. Has Sony done something about it? No.

No you are most certainly m,issing the point here.

It's not the ACHIEVEMENTS themselves that are qhat I'm questioning. That's not how copyrights or trademarks, etc work.

For example, take, say, the achievements for a game like BulletStorm. Iirc, from my own collection, the trophies and achivements are the same across all platforms, generally speaking. That's not something that can be copyrighted. Not the text content, nor the number of achievements as they are very generic things.

It's the fact there is a PLATINUM that might be shaky ground.

That's all.

Now, there might be a way round this, by doing something slightly different. But I suspect the whole endeavour just isn't worth it, as there's bugger all gain to e made for the effort.

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

I think you are missing the fact that there are many Steam games that already have imported their exact PS trophies onto Steam and there has been zero legal issue. Like I said, it's not all games that are missing this "supposedly PS-exclusive trophy" that only unlocks when you get all other trophies. Many games on Steam do have it, and it's called an achievement isntead. Has Sony done something about it? No.

No you are most certainly m,issing the point here.

It's not the ACHIEVEMENTS themselves that are qhat I'm questioning. That's not how copyrights or trademarks, etc work.

For example, take, say, the achievements for a game like BulletStorm. Iirc, from my own collection, the trophies and achivements are the same across all platforms, generally speaking. That's not something that can be copyrighted. Not the text content, nor the number of achievements as they are very generic things.

It's the fact there is a PLATINUM that might be shaky ground.

That's all.

Now, there might be a way round this, by doing something slightly different. But I suspect the whole endeavour just isn't worth it, as there's bugger all gain to e made for the effort.

I never said steam needs to add a PLATINUM trophy....I literally just want the rest of the games to do what many games are already doing, by having the exact same achievements across platforms. There is absolutely nothing copyritghtable about this since many games have already imported their PS4 trophy that unlocks when you get all other trophies to Steam, but calling it an achievement instead, with zero issue.

[Timoi]

Escrito originalmente por Kodeäffchen:

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

You're missing the point. Copyrights don't work like that.

It's not just the platinum trophy or the artwork that is maybe copyrighted. It's the concept. I tried to make this clear from the Namco example.

In your assessment, any other company like Konami say, could use their old arcade games like Scramble to bung in a loading screen, but they cannot, because the CONCEPT is sewn up.

That's the problem.

We are talking about processes and design choices here, not products. From laws perspective there's no copyright involved, just patents. Patents are usually extremely expensive and time consuming. I heavily doubt Sony would invest into patenting the trivial Platinum trophy process. Another hurdle would be that similiar processes were already part of other platforms in the past, which makes the patent approval process even harder.

From my vague understanding of the various intelectual property protection systems, (Copyright, Trademark, Patent, etc.) I thought this would be more of a trademark thing than a patent...

But really in the end, the system for platnum trophies is built into the PS environment. There could be some kind of IP protection, whichever is applicable, preventing other ecosystems from implementing an "all achievements completed" achievement at that kind of level. This leaves it up to the devs to need to actually create an extra achievement for Steam when it's just an automatic thing on Playstation. So there isn't really anything to move over, they'd have to create it.

Or the reason that Steam might not have an equivalent to platnum trophies implemented on a system level could simply because they didn't really see a point to it (and honestly, I agree)

[crunchyfrog]

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

No you are most certainly m,issing the point here.

It's not the ACHIEVEMENTS themselves that are qhat I'm questioning. That's not how copyrights or trademarks, etc work.

For example, take, say, the achievements for a game like BulletStorm. Iirc, from my own collection, the trophies and achivements are the same across all platforms, generally speaking. That's not something that can be copyrighted. Not the text content, nor the number of achievements as they are very generic things.

It's the fact there is a PLATINUM that might be shaky ground.

That's all.

Now, there might be a way round this, by doing something slightly different. But I suspect the whole endeavour just isn't worth it, as there's bugger all gain to e made for the effort.

I never said steam needs to add a PLATINUM trophy....I literally just want the rest of the games to do what many games are already doing, by having the exact same achievements across platforms. There is absolutely nothing copyritghtable about this since many games have already imported their PS4 trophy that unlocks when you get all other trophies to Steam, but calling it an achievement instead, with zero issue.

And I never said you did.

That's what you're missing here. I said it might not be as simple as that for the reasons I offered. There MAY be copyrightable parts of it, as I described.

Now considering this is not really something that benefits the company in adding this, the point is that is very much something AGAINST doing this.

That's the point. On the face of it, it's probably not worth it, and this particular possibility can make it a worse problem.

[crunchyfrog]

Escrito originalmente por Timoi:

Escrito originalmente por Kodeäffchen:

We are talking about processes and design choices here, not products. From laws perspective there's no copyright involved, just patents. Patents are usually extremely expensive and time consuming. I heavily doubt Sony would invest into patenting the trivial Platinum trophy process. Another hurdle would be that similiar processes were already part of other platforms in the past, which makes the patent approval process even harder.

From my vague understanding of the various intelectual property protection systems, (Copyright, Trademark, Patent, etc.) I thought this would be more of a trademark thing than a patent...

But really in the end, the system for platnum trophies is built into the PS environment. There could be some kind of IP protection, whichever is applicable, preventing other ecosystems from implementing an "all achievements completed" achievement at that kind of level. This leaves it up to the devs to need to actually create an extra achievement for Steam when it's just an automatic thing on Playstation. So there isn't really anything to move over, they'd have to create it.

Or the reason that Steam might not have an equivalent to platnum trophies implemented on a system level could simply because they didn't really see a point to it (and honestly, I agree)

Precisely.

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Escrito originalmente por Timoi:

From my vague understanding of the various intelectual property protection systems, (Copyright, Trademark, Patent, etc.) I thought this would be more of a trademark thing than a patent...

But really in the end, the system for platnum trophies is built into the PS environment. There could be some kind of IP protection, whichever is applicable, preventing other ecosystems from implementing an "all achievements completed" achievement at that kind of level. This leaves it up to the devs to need to actually create an extra achievement for Steam when it's just an automatic thing on Playstation. So there isn't really anything to move over, they'd have to create it.

Or the reason that Steam might not have an equivalent to platnum trophies implemented on a system level could simply because they didn't really see a point to it (and honestly, I agree)

Precisely.

he's saying something different from you. He said that Steam as a platform may not be allowed to add a system where an achievement gets unlocked when all the other achievements are unlocked. Because this is what PS is doing and this feature might be copyrighted.

I've never once suggested in this whole thread that this is what I want to see. I'm talking about individual developers specifically adding an extra achievement that unlocks when all other achievements are unlocked for their Steam games, so that the Steam version and PS4 version have the exact same trophies/achievements. There is absolutely nothing copyrightable about this since many games on Steam is already doing it.

[百分之百人体描边]

good

[crunchyfrog]

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Precisely.

he's saying something different from you. He said that Steam as a platform may not be allowed to add a system where an achievement gets unlocked when all the other achievements are unlocked. Because this is what PS is doing and this feature might be copyrighted.

I've never once suggested in this whole thread that this is what I want to see. I'm talking about individual developers specifically adding an extra achievement that unlocks when all other achievements are unlocked for their Steam games, so that the Steam version and PS4 version have the exact same trophies/achievements. There is absolutely nothing copyrightable about this since many games on Steam is already doing it.

Yes I KNOW that. I was merely pointing out this particular hurdle that might lay in their path.

You do understand how conversations work, right? Just because I was responding to your point, it does NOT mean I am directly addressing your EXACT point. One can embellish. I thought I made that abundantly clear.

And he WAS saying what I said.

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

he's saying something different from you. He said that Steam as a platform may not be allowed to add a system where an achievement gets unlocked when all the other achievements are unlocked. Because this is what PS is doing and this feature might be copyrighted.

I've never once suggested in this whole thread that this is what I want to see. I'm talking about individual developers specifically adding an extra achievement that unlocks when all other achievements are unlocked for their Steam games, so that the Steam version and PS4 version have the exact same trophies/achievements. There is absolutely nothing copyrightable about this since many games on Steam is already doing it.

Yes I KNOW that. I was merely pointing out this particular hurdle that might lay in their path.

You do understand how conversations work, right? Just because I was responding to your point, it does NOT mean I am directly addressing your EXACT point. One can embellish. I thought I made that abundantly clear.

And he WAS saying what I said.

Sure, you are allowed to deviate my topic of "Why devs don't make an extra achievement on steam to mirror same list of trophy on PS" to "the issue of platinum being copyrighted", but if you look back at your first reply to me, you were saying that I was missing your point. I never missed your point, it was simply never the topic I was talking about. So you singlehandedly dragged me into an irrelevant topic I never wanted to argue about and you act like a surprised pikachu when I don't see the relevance of your arguments because it has nothing to do with some devs not putting an extra effort to make one more trophy when others do?

So let's just acknowledge each other's point and move on.
- I'm saying that it would be great if all devs could do what some devs are doing, by making an extra achievement that unlocks when all achievements are umlocked.
- you are saying that the system where a trophy pops up automatically once all other trophies are unlocked is a sony exclusive, potentially copyrighted feature.

There you go. There is exactly zero conflict between both statements, they are just talking about different aspects.

[ReBoot]

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

- I'm saying that it would be great if all devs could do what some devs are doing, by making an extra achievement that unlocks when all achievements are umlocked.

All devs can do that, not all devs do.
There is ways to track "perfect" games on Steam though. There's that nice & shiny badge on your library page and if it's showing off you're after, there's the perfect-game-showcase, as well as the list of completed (in the definition of achievements) games on your profile.

[Dweller Beyond the Threshold]

Escrito originalmente por ReBoot:

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

- I'm saying that it would be great if all devs could do what some devs are doing, by making an extra achievement that unlocks when all achievements are umlocked.

All devs can do that, not all devs do.
There is ways to track "perfect" games on Steam though. There's that nice & shiny badge on your library page and if it's showing off you're after, there's the perfect-game-showcase, as well as the list of completed (in the definition of achievements) games on your profile.

yeah I know, not a big deal, but I just really appreciate all the devs who put a little extra effort into making this bonus achievement for Steam :)
Yeah I know there's the perfect game counter, but personally I just prefer seeing an achievement instead lol, but it's not a big issue for me either way. I was only really just curious in the beginning why different games had different achievement list when it was the same on PS. Now I know why :)

[ReBoot]

Escrito originalmente por UnhappyLawbro:

Escrito originalmente por ReBoot:

All devs can do that, not all devs do.
There is ways to track "perfect" games on Steam though. There's that nice & shiny badge on your library page and if it's showing off you're after, there's the perfect-game-showcase, as well as the list of completed (in the definition of achievements) games on your profile.

yeah I know, not a big deal, but I just really appreciate all the devs who put a little extra effort into making this bonus achievement for Steam :)

Yeah, we can agree on that!