Refund and testing games?

[Koozniak]

Hi (and sorry if my english isn't perfect, it's not my native language)

I buy many games each months, and sometimes i ask a refund, ofc i've always been playing that game less than 2 hours and asked the refund in less than 14 days.

I respect the rules established by Valve.

But in many cases i've received a message telling me that i have made many refunds lately, the refunds are not a way of testing games, and if they suspect that the refunds are used in a devious way they'll be refused in the future.

I find this message very odd and a bit stressful.

Like i said i respect their rules, i don't think that you can really test a game in less than 2 hours, especially when it's a long game, and because of that kind of message i hesitate before asking a refund if i've asked another refund some days before.

But the more you buy games the more you have chances to ask a refund!

I'd like to speak about that to Valve but it's impossible to write to them.

So i share my thoughts here.

[Start_Running]

Repeat after me.
The Refuund system is not for testing games.
Keep doing what you are doing and you will have the ability to refund removed from your account.

Do some research on the game befoire you buy it. There's plenty of resorces available for tthat.

[Mad Scientist]

The message isn't odd, you claimed to respect valves rules. Those rules include purchasing and refunding isn't for testing games and you may be denied future refunds.

If you're curious as to if you'd like a game or not, watch some YouTube videos and reviews about it.

[Zekiran]

It is up to you to research your purchases before you put money on them.

Stop refunding games. Buy ONLY the games you know you're going to play.

[BullRot]

A refund is the digital way if the product is defective or completely out of description, ie marketing.

It is not done to test games or acquire something just to try.
Refund is an ability (abused by many) to return a game which crashes, don't work properly or for example description tells you one thing and the game is completely different or doesn't run even if you meet requirements for it.

It is not for trying, testing, checking if it will run outside of minimum specs etc....

Same stories goes for Amazon and abuse of buying and returning.
Also many can do the same to acquire game, downloading a crack and refunding.

Because of such guys, the compagnies doing something more for the customer can actually limit it and even change the way it is done ......

[Koozniak]

Watching a video isn't enough. The video isn't made on my computer, and i'm not playing it. So it is said "if the game don't run on your computer or if you don't like it", read the policy, "if you don't like it" is written, and it's a reason you can give when you want a refund (you can read 'i am deceived")

There is a problem with the word "testing", coz you must test the game to see if it's ok on your computer, ok with your desire, sometimes it's too complicated to run or to play...

The rule are clear, so why don't they say "you can get 1 refund per month"?
or no refund if you don't like the game, only if it doesn't run on your computer

But here it's not that at all, read all the reasons you can give when you want a refund, you've got 'i don't like it"

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

There is no set limit. It is just too many in a short period of time. If there was a limit, users would find ways to abuse it indefinitely.

They'll warn you a few times before they revoke your rights to refunds.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Koozniak:

And read the policy, it's written in the first line "you can get a refund if the game doesn't run on your computer, or simply as that if you don't like it"

Now look under the abuse clause.

ABUSE

Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

[Koozniak]

Look the policy https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

1st line "you can get a refund if you don't like the game after having played 1 hour" (here they say 1 hour)

[Koozniak]

Yeah hotsauce, i know that, hey i've got 570 games, i don't wanna "play free", 2 hours and change, it's silly, i'm a real gamer, but i like when things are clear, i prefer rules, here is what you can do and what is forbidden

[Koozniak]

And herer it's not very clear.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Koozniak:

Look the policy https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

1st line "you can get a refund if you don't like the game after having played 1 hour" (here they say 1 hour)

It is quite clear. If they feel you are abusing the refund system, then they can prevent further refunds.

What you quoted was a small example what may be allowed for a refund. The number of times you can do it is not stated.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Koozniak:

Watching a video isn't enough. The video isn't made on my computer, and i'm not playing it.

But it does show you what the game entails and the gameplay loops. the only difference is the tactile sensation of pressing the keys/buttons and I'm sure your imagination can fill in those blanks.

So it is said "if the game don't run on your computer or if you don't like it", read the policy, "if you don't like it" is written, and it's a reason you can give when you want a refund (you can read 'i am deceived")

Good. Now read the rest of the Policy. Particularly the last paragraph:

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

There is a problem with the word "testing", coz you must test the game to see if it's ok on your computer, ok with your desire, sometimes it's too complicated to run or to play...

read the system requirements. They will tell you if your system can run it.

The rule are clear, so why don't they say "you can get 1 refund per month"?
or no refund if you don't like the game, only if it doesn't run on your computer

if they gave a number it would make it too easy for bad actors to abuse the system by toeing the line. By keeping it fuzzy it allows them to act based on detected patterns.

But here it's not that at all, read all the reasons you can give when you want a refund, you've got 'i don't like it"

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

The reason for refunding has nothing to do with whether or not they consider your actions abuse. Its the frequency. heed the warning and slow down or you will find yourself on the list of people who have indeed mdeed been dense enough to actually get their refund ability revoked.

[Koozniak]

Sorry guys, i disagree with all of you.

I live in the EU, and we have a law here that say "if you have purchased a product or a service on line (internet) or by distance (mail, delivery), you have the right to ask a refund or return the product within 14 days whatever the reason is". Valve just added the 2 hours because almost every games could be finished within 14 days.
Here is the law (sorry it's in french but maybe you can translate) https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_fr.htm

If that European law has been made, it is because you don't see everything by distance.
And it's a good law.

You all say "you must pay attention before purchasing a game" but nothing is asked to do so.
of course i won't buy a kind of game i don't like at all (i.e. i hate sports games)
But, i've bought 3 games lately, the first one was horrible to play with, it was asked to play with a oystick and i don't like joysticks, i asked a refund
-The second game had many colors i couldn't see , i am color blind, and no color blind mode in the parameters. I also asked a refund
-The third game is boring. But i don't dare asking another refund because of the 2 before.
So will i have to keep a game i don't like?
Once i find a game i like i keep it, i have 570 games and many dkc!

-I am not an abuser or a frauder. I like playing, there are many games that you can play for eternity (many stratrgy games are like that, it's my favorite kind of game, i.e. Civilization or Crusader king. Playing less than 2 hours with those games is silly.)

See, it's complicated, and i think that Valve cannot do many things since i live in EU and the law authorize me to ask that refund if i respect those 2hours/14 days.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Koozniak:

I live in the EU, and we have a law here that say "if you have purchased a product or a service on line (internet) or by distance (mail, delivery), you have the right to ask a refund or return the product within 14 days whatever the reason is". Valve just added the 2 hours because almost every games could be finished within 14 days.
Here is the law (sorry it's in french but maybe you can translate) https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_fr.htm

If that European law has been made, it is because you don't see everything by distance.
And it's a good law..

Next time you purchase a game in Steam, pay close attention at the checkbox about the right to withdrawal for digital purchases
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516
That's also EU law, the specific one to be applied to digital downloads (The link you posted is about the purchases of goods. Digital purchases are treated differently)
You can read the EU regulation here:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083&from=EN
Although I have quoted the important part from previous replies in this subject:

(19) Digital content means data which are produced and supplied in digital form, such as computer programs, applications, games, music, videos or texts, irrespective of whether they are accessed through downloading or streaming, from a tangible medium or through any other means. Contracts for the supply of digital content should fall within the scope of this directive. If digital content is supplied on a tangible medium, such as a CD or a DVD, it should be considered as goods within the meaning of this Directive. Similarly to contracts for the supply of water, gas or electricity, where they are not put up for sale in a limited volume or set quantity, or of district heating, contracts for digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium should be classified, for the purpose of this Directive, neither as sales contracts nor as service contracts. For such contracts, the consumer should have a right of withdrawal unless he has consented to the beginning of the performance of the contract during the withdrawal period and has acknowledged that he will consequently lose the right to withdraw from the contract.

Again. Pay attention to the checkboxes you tick next time you make a purchase.

Valve's 2h/14 days refunds is purely on their goodwill, granted or removed under Valve's rules and not based on EU regulations. Under those you withdrew your right to a refund the moment the games were delivered to your library

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Koozniak:

Sorry guys, i disagree with all of you.

I live in the EU, and we have a law here that say "if you have purchased a product or a service on line (internet) or by distance (mail, delivery), you have the right to ask a refund or return the product within 14 days whatever the reason is". Valve just added the 2 hours because almost every games could be finished within 14 days.
Here is the law (sorry it's in french but maybe you can translate) https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_fr.htm

If that European law has been made, it is because you don't see everything by distance.
And it's a good law.

You all say "you must pay attention before purchasing a game" but nothing is asked to do so.
of course i won't buy a kind of game i don't like at all (i.e. i hate sports games)
But, i've bought 3 games lately, the first one was horrible to play with, it was asked to play with a oystick and i don't like joysticks, i asked a refund
-The second game had many colors i couldn't see , i am color blind, and no color blind mode in the parameters. I also asked a refund
-The third game is boring. But i don't dare asking another refund because of the 2 before.
So will i have to keep a game i don't like?
Once i find a game i like i keep it, i have 570 games and many dkc!

-I am not an abuser or a frauder. I like playing, there are many games that you can play for eternity (many stratrgy games are like that, it's my favorite kind of game, i.e. Civilization or Crusader king. Playing less than 2 hours with those games is silly.)

See, it's complicated, and i think that Valve cannot do many things since i live in EU and the law authorize me to ask that refund if i respect those 2hours/14 days.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

There is more to it then what you are referring to.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it and you agreed that you would lose your right of withdrawal by starting the performance

And you agreed to lose your right of withdrawal.

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Ninja'd by Tito!