Why are people upset of sales tax being applied to Steam lol?

[Cyber2B]

Canadian here, so anything you purchase online like Amazon, Steam, PSN, etc, etc now is taxed. Law is effective July 1st, 2021.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/digital-economy.html

The states has had the same ordeal already. Nothing brand new fellow Canucks

Since 2014 when I first made my first online purchase and -- it was taxless, I figured the government is going to catch on sooner or later and looks like 2021 was that "one day".

That said, why are some people upset over this? The government was going to touch the online world sooner or later.

That said the tax isn't even the full PST-GST. So technically would still be cheaper then buying in-store.

[-$ilver-]

Първоначално публикувано от brian9824:

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

For me it was never about the sales tax, but the lack of privacy. It is not just the zip code that they want, which should be good enough. They want your full address.

Yep, since tax is determined by your location when you buy an item, an address is a pretty good way to determine that... Definitely far more precise then zip code, and able to proven false if someone was faking it.

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

I do not use credit cards online and I pay with cash for my Steam gift cards.

Which isn't related at all as gift card purchases are not taxed. Your taxed when you use the gift card.

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

I do not even give my address to the store, why should I be giving it to Steam?

The store knows its own physical address when you buy an item, if you were buying an item online from a store then you WOULD be required to provide your address.


People keep making claims that oh its illegal because i googled a law that i read it as such, yeah, well funny enough no one seems to bat an eye at steam doing it. Nor do they complain that Walmart and other stores require your address for digital purchases for tax reasons as well.

I think we have bumped heads on this issue before. So to sum this up quickly, zip code should be the only thing needed. If you want the store where I purchased from, I can give you their address. It is right down the street. The sales tax did not change. Regardless whether we are taxed for the gift card or not, I paid cash for it, thus they did not get any info from me, neither should anyone else when I spend it. And since I am spending it physically at a store, they wont. Lastly I do not purposely purchase with Walmart online, because I do not like giving such info over the internet. So I can not speak for those who would purchase with online stores without even blinking an eye, but then have problems with Steam.

Първоначално публикувано от Eagle_of_Fire:

Nice to see I'm not the only one with a conscience and a brain.

With all due respect, I came late to this party and have no real desire to go picking through 8 pages worth of content to find out who said what. So I honestly do not know your true stance on the issue. All I know is Steam it self, thus Valve, I trust. Everything in between I do not. It's as simple as that and has always been that way. And whether that is rational or not, is neither here nor there.

And if I am being quite honest, I would rather pay the highest sales tax in the United States on all purchases through Steam, regardless of what state I am in, if it meant I did not have to give over my personal info online. Everyone wins out. The state for getting even more money from me, Steam because I would willingly purchase more from their platform and me because I did not have to do something I did not and should not have to do. It's a win win for everybody.

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

I think we have bumped heads on this issue before. So to sum this up quickly, zip code should be the only thing needed. If you want the store where I purchased from, I can give you their address.
It is right down the street. The sales tax did not change.

In that case it might be, however its just as likely that gift card was bought and shipped to someone somewhere else as a gift. Or you redeemed the gift card and later moved and are now subject to a different tax rate

Hence why the location the gift card was bought from is meaningless. That is not a steam thing, that is literally how every store in the world operates.

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Regardless whether we are taxed for the gift card or not, I paid cash for it, thus they did not get any info from me, neither should anyone else when I spend it.

Every government collecting tax says otherwise, since collecting tax is MANDATORY, they need to determine what tax if any you know. As already PROVEN the location you bought the gift card is not applicable for that.

The ONLY factor for collecting tax is the location you are at when you are making your purchase. For a physical store that is the stores location, for an online purchase that is your billing location.

[-$ilver-]

Първоначално публикувано от crunchyfrog:

Alwasy bud, always :)

Though I have been a bit lapse of late off and on as I've had this bastard of a digestion issue which affected my important gaming time. It's been going on months now.

I don't disagree with your point - you are indeed still giving to them so there is a burden of trust involved. I guess all I was getting at is that when some epople get a bit paranoid about it, they assume that it's going to be used malaiciously.

I can't say for certain as I don't know how American laws work with this. I know they're similar but, here in Britain and Europe if you have to take and store data for purposes like this, it MUST be encrypted too, as well as not used for such promotional purposes.

So if this were the case, I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing wrong with caution though.

I am truly sorry to hear that. We do not always see eye to eye, but I am always wishing you the best... even if half the time I am cussing underneath my breath from a discussion or argument we've had. ^^! Hopefully you have or can get it under control. Perhaps a better diet? I do not want to get too personal on here and I am willing to edit this out if you wish to edit your's out.

Regardless I trust Valve 100%. It's everything else in between that I do not.

And encrypted data can still be taken and does all the time and repurposed for the needs of those who want that data. Nothing is 100% fail safe. But it seems like all the time something is being taken some where and most of it is encrypted. Maybe how good the fail safes are or the encryption matters, to an extent.

[-$ilver-]

Първоначално публикувано от brian9824:

In that case it might be, however its just as likely that gift card was bought and shipped to someone somewhere else as a gift. Or you redeemed the gift card and later moved and are now subject to a different tax rate

Hence why the location the gift card was bought from is meaningless. That is not a steam thing, that is literally how every store in the world operates.

Every government collecting tax says otherwise, since collecting tax is MANDATORY, they need to determine what tax if any you know. As already PROVEN the location you bought the gift card is not applicable for that.

The ONLY factor for collecting tax is the location you are at when you are making your purchase. For a physical store that is the stores location, for an online purchase that is your billing location.

Yes I understand everything you are saying and knew before you even said it. =) But I'd also like to point out however, that the store in question is still not getting your personal info. An ID is not even required to be seen to use a gift card and even then only asked if you are buying items that are age restricted (if that is even possible with a gift card, sometimes there are limitations), but nothing is written or typed or scanned with your photo ID. So again they are not getting any of your personal info. And as previously stated, I'd rather pay the highest state tax in the nation, than have to hand over my personal info for a simple online transaction of digital games. So paying a sales tax, even the highest, is not the issue. Not for me anyway.

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Yes I understand everything you are saying and knew before you even said it. =) But I'd also like to point out however, that the store in question is still not getting your personal info.

Of course they aren't because 1. Its not taxed so its not needed, and 2, its a physical purchase which is not remotely related to ONLINE purchases.

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

An ID is not even required to be seen to use a gift card and even then only asked if you are buying items that are age restricted (if that is even possible with a gift card, sometimes there are limitations), but nothing is written or typed or scanned with your photo ID.

Again of course, because a gift card is basically treated like cash. That wasn't remotely what is being discussed.

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

So again they are not getting any of your personal info. And as previously stated, I'd rather pay the highest state tax in the nation, than have to hand over my personal info for a simple online transaction of digital games. So paying a sales tax, even the highest, is not the issue. Not for me anyway.

Laws don't work that way, and that option isn't practical as the POS systems don't take your personal preferences into consideration. They operate based on the law.

What steam does is no different then what amazon, target, bestbuy, walmart, vudu, nintendo, microsoft, Sony, etc all do.
They ask for your address as required by law to determine your billing, something that is 100% legal despite you not liking it.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Първоначално публикувано от Eagle_of_Fire:

Nice to see I'm not the only one with a conscience and a brain.

With all due respect, I came late to this party and have no real desire to go picking through 8 pages worth of content to find out who said what. So I honestly do not know your true stance on the issue. All I know is Steam it self, thus Valve, I trust. Everything in between I do not. It's as simple as that and has always been that way. And whether that is rational or not, is neither here nor there.

And if I am being quite honest, I would rather pay the highest sales tax in the United States on all purchases through Steam, regardless of what state I am in, if it meant I did not have to give over my personal info online. Everyone wins out. The state for getting even more money from me, Steam because I would willingly purchase more from their platform and me because I did not have to do something I did not and should not have to do. It's a win win for everybody.

It is quite fine. The truth here is that I have the exact same stance than you have. I don't really mind the taxes but I really place a premium on the protection of my privacy.

[crunchyfrog]

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Първоначално публикувано от crunchyfrog:

Alwasy bud, always :)

Though I have been a bit lapse of late off and on as I've had this bastard of a digestion issue which affected my important gaming time. It's been going on months now.

I don't disagree with your point - you are indeed still giving to them so there is a burden of trust involved. I guess all I was getting at is that when some epople get a bit paranoid about it, they assume that it's going to be used malaiciously.

I can't say for certain as I don't know how American laws work with this. I know they're similar but, here in Britain and Europe if you have to take and store data for purposes like this, it MUST be encrypted too, as well as not used for such promotional purposes.

So if this were the case, I wouldn't worry about it. Nothing wrong with caution though.

I am truly sorry to hear that. We do not always see eye to eye, but I am always wishing you the best... even if half the time I am cussing underneath my breath from a discussion or argument we've had. ^^! Hopefully you have or can get it under control. Perhaps a better diet? I do not want to get too personal on here and I am willing to edit this out if you wish to edit your's out.

Regardless I trust Valve 100%. It's everything else in between that I do not.

And encrypted data can still be taken and does all the time and repurposed for the needs of those who want that data. Nothing is 100% fail safe. But it seems like all the time something is being taken some where and most of it is encrypted. Maybe how good the fail safes are or the encryption matters, to an extent.

Dude, I appreciate it.

LIkewise, I hold no malice to anyone and while I may be blunt, I can assure you I'm not being deliberately malicious or anything. That's why I'm happy to respond and discuss with you - you do disagree or misunderstand but you always stick to discussing fairly too.

I'm cool with that.

As for the digestion thing, its' probably a mix of loads of issues, as I had a stomach bug from something dodgy I ate back in April. That went away but it left these other problems. I already have issues with my kidneys due to spina bifida and the nerves not working correctly (they're erratic), so that complicates things. I've tried all manner of things, like changing certain things in diet *though I eat pretty well anyway as I despise crap food), but to little to no avail.

I'm trying to get to the doctor but getting an appointment along with getting a day where I'm capable of going out is a bit of a sod.


Still, onwards and upwards and all that.

Anywho, I perfectly understand why anyone would be reticent or suspicious about people gathering your data. But there are certain restrictions with things like data for taxation as they are absolutely not allowed to be used in the manner other data is commercially.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't trust my government, so I certinaly wouldn't trust the US government as far as I could throw it. But when that data is sent to them and the shop in the middle doesn't get to touch it, I seriously doubt they'd risk messing with it.

[Satoru]

Your “privacy” doesn’t override tax evasion

[R-]

dont worry soon the robots from elon musk will pay tax too

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Първоначално публикувано от brian9824:

In that case it might be, however its just as likely that gift card was bought and shipped to someone somewhere else as a gift. Or you redeemed the gift card and later moved and are now subject to a different tax rate

Hence why the location the gift card was bought from is meaningless. That is not a steam thing, that is literally how every store in the world operates.

Every government collecting tax says otherwise, since collecting tax is MANDATORY, they need to determine what tax if any you know. As already PROVEN the location you bought the gift card is not applicable for that.

The ONLY factor for collecting tax is the location you are at when you are making your purchase. For a physical store that is the stores location, for an online purchase that is your billing location.

Yes I understand everything you are saying and knew before you even said it. =) But I'd also like to point out however, that the store in question is still not getting your personal info. An ID is not even required to be seen to use a gift card and even then only asked if you are buying items that are age restricted (if that is even possible with a gift card, sometimes there are limitations), but nothing is written or typed or scanned with your photo ID. So again they are not getting any of your personal info. And as previously stated, I'd rather pay the highest state tax in the nation, than have to hand over my personal info for a simple online transaction of digital games. So paying a sales tax, even the highest, is not the issue. Not for me anyway.

Why do you keep ignoring the most basic thing? A physical store doesn't need your information because the tax is based on the physical stores location.

[crunchyfrog]

Първоначално публикувано от Damp Wizard Sleeve:

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Yes I understand everything you are saying and knew before you even said it. =) But I'd also like to point out however, that the store in question is still not getting your personal info. An ID is not even required to be seen to use a gift card and even then only asked if you are buying items that are age restricted (if that is even possible with a gift card, sometimes there are limitations), but nothing is written or typed or scanned with your photo ID. So again they are not getting any of your personal info. And as previously stated, I'd rather pay the highest state tax in the nation, than have to hand over my personal info for a simple online transaction of digital games. So paying a sales tax, even the highest, is not the issue. Not for me anyway.

Why do you keep ignoring the most basic thing? A physical store doesn't need your information because the tax is based on the physical stores location.

Yup, that's the exact point.

It's the point of all this - abuse and avoidance.

With a physical store, it is hard located in reality in one place - tha place where the transaction takes, face to face. There's no getting round that.

However, online and with distance selling there are easy ways to get round that. I could use a VPN and fake my credentials. I could even use mail order through old-fashioned letter post, and fake my details there and have the stuff sent to another address. Both of these avoid tax.

So you HAVE to have measures to avoid such easy oversights. Ergo, you provide details.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Първоначално публикувано от Damp Wizard Sleeve:

Първоначално публикувано от -$ilver-:

Yes I understand everything you are saying and knew before you even said it. =) But I'd also like to point out however, that the store in question is still not getting your personal info. An ID is not even required to be seen to use a gift card and even then only asked if you are buying items that are age restricted (if that is even possible with a gift card, sometimes there are limitations), but nothing is written or typed or scanned with your photo ID. So again they are not getting any of your personal info. And as previously stated, I'd rather pay the highest state tax in the nation, than have to hand over my personal info for a simple online transaction of digital games. So paying a sales tax, even the highest, is not the issue. Not for me anyway.

Why do you keep ignoring the most basic thing? A physical store doesn't need your information because the tax is based on the physical stores location.

Just as Steam don't need to know more than my general location (in my case, Québec, Canada) to know which kind of taxes to apply.

End of story.

[logicbuster]

Първоначално публикувано от Eagle_of_Fire:

Първоначално публикувано от Damp Wizard Sleeve:

Why do you keep ignoring the most basic thing? A physical store doesn't need your information because the tax is based on the physical stores location.

Just as Steam don't need to know more than my general location (in my case, Québec, Canada) to know which kind of taxes to apply.

End of story.

you do realise quebec has different taxes then say new brunswick

[Brian9824]

Първоначално публикувано от Eagle_of_Fire:

Първоначално публикувано от Damp Wizard Sleeve:

Why do you keep ignoring the most basic thing? A physical store doesn't need your information because the tax is based on the physical stores location.

Just as Steam don't need to know more than my general location (in my case, Québec, Canada) to know which kind of taxes to apply.

End of story.

Not really familiar with any systems that ask for billing province, you really want an address because it makes it harder for someone to just pick somewhere with no tax. Sure they can leave a fake address, but if they do that its proof of ill intent, versus them being able to claim they just picked the wrong province by accident.

I mean tax evasion/fraud is punishable by jail time...

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Първоначално публикувано от logicbuster:

Първоначално публикувано от Eagle_of_Fire:

Just as Steam don't need to know more than my general location (in my case, Québec, Canada) to know which kind of taxes to apply.

End of story.

you do realise quebec has different taxes then say new brunswick

Yes? Which is exactly the point?