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Not really. Big companies on the internet already know where you are to begin with. Whether or not they have your exact address is something different. But they know your basic location. Whether they know you are at 1234 or 1244 on the same street or the next street over in the same city of the same postal code should not make a difference.
Nope, because if kids are using the account then the parents would fill that out, not the kids.
Again, they wouldn't their parents would as that is who created the account as kids are not allowed to make an account themselves and if they did they already broke steam's rules. Also no kid is going to lose trust in valve over that.....
Start writing to your representatives for your government and telling them you don't want to pay taxes on online purchases.
That is false, steam has no way to know where you are. IP address is not accurate at all and can be off by hundreds of miles and put people in completely different countries. It does not tell people what street you are on, at best it can pinpoint you within 10-20 miles, and at worst it can be off by hundreds of miles.
It's especially innacurate for the millions upon millions of people that live within 20 miles of a border of another country.
Or Valve can be more reasonable and just ask for a postal code only because that is all that they need for sales tax purposes.
That's... not exactly accurate. It strictly depends on the infrastructure in place. In a large city, you might have the last IP octet (meaning 255 unique addresses) assigned to an area barely larger than a few blocks.
In rural settings... yeah, it might be 10-20 miles, but those are also places that are rarely cabled in the first place (outside of DSL or other tech that runs on telephone copper lines, which in itself can be used for pretty detailed geolocation). I don't know firsthand of any place where "hundreds of miles" is a possibility, but - admittedly - I have no experience with computer networks in less developed countries.
The technology works the same, though, so it's hardly likely that a place which can assign 255 addresses over the area of hundreds of miles, square or not, would have network cables in the first place.
Uh... what?
Your IP address comes from specific IP provider, and those operate very much within national borders if only for tax and legal purpose.
Completely false, a lot of the ISP's register their geolocation as the company headquarters, not the actual location the IP's are being issued. This is problematic as the database is voluntary and there is no requirement to provide accurate data.
WhatismyIP is a common site that even warns you about this - https://www.whatismyip.com/ip-address-lookup/
It's quite common for instance for people in Michigan to have websites think they are in Canada for instance.
Again, that is false, it doesn't depend at all on the infrastructure in place. Again - https://usersinsights.com/how-the-geolocation-works/#:~:text=The%20way%20the%20IP-based,by%20knowing%20their%20IP%20address.
The issue is many of the databases are notoriously out of date, different groups use different databases, and often many of them list their central office as the location, not the actual address of the IP's.
https://www.gravitatedesign.com/blog/what-is-geolocation/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20IP,between%2050%20and%2070%20percent.
For instance
Sorry, but again what your posting is the bit that's 100% false, already showed you that whatismyIP even warns you that its entirely possible that if your ISP is controlled from canada you can show as being in canada despite being in the US as an example
Again - I can see that first hand. I know what city my ISP is headquarted out of as my provider is a smaller network and If i check my IP address here - https://www.iplocation.net/find-ip-address
It shows my physical address being in a city over 50 miles away because that is where they are headquartered.
I've also had lookups think i'm in Mexico when i'm visiting family in Southern Texas.
It CAN be accurate, but its inaccurate enough that its not able to be a factor for stuff like this. At most its one data point out of multiple other more reliable datapoints. The main value is in aggregating data over a region because it becomes more accurate the broader you search.
That same company, internally, has different second-to-last IP octet assigned to very specific areas they operate in.
As I wrote before - it can be an issue in an area of low population density, but anything crossing national boundaries is a pure SNAFU on part of the geolocation service implementation.
It does not mean that somebody in possession of your IP address is limited to the use of third-party geolocation services, either, especially if they have a way of processing that information through some national agency.
Your IP knows exactly where you are, because they know the distribution of IP blocks and specific IP assignment. Regardless of whether or not some other company trying to sell that information based on flawed implementation does not.
Basically, we are discussing two different things - you're talking about geolocation third-party services, I'm discussing the technical feasibility of determining user location based on ISP data itself.
And I doubt anybody in position to leverage that information against you is not going to have access to internal ISP logs. Even the third-party services you mention are reasonably accurate in most cases, anecdotal outliers notwithstanding - and they run only on what amounts to educated guesstimates.
Yes I'm talking about the ability of someone like steam to determine address based on your IP as that is what -$ilver-: claimed which is not true.
Hence why I said
Which again is 100% true. Unless your going to subpoena the ISP every time someone buys an item or does a market trade steam isn't going to get accurate data from your IP address to determine tax without too big of a margin for error. They definitely aren't going to know what street you live on from your IP address
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.04288.pdf
This is an already dated (two years old, it's ages in infotech!) paper that, to simplify specialist terms, has around 80% accuracy for one of its approaches.
Google does. And that's only a slightly snarky remark, because they are working very, very hard on making it a reality.
But I guess I'm pushing this way off topic - anyway, look up that paper I linked, fascinating (in a pretty worrying way) stuff.
is the better discussion thread on this topic
No it isn't.
You have to remember for a start that Steam is global. Postcodes here in Britain for example only give a rough area. Mine's PE11 2YT - which can be 4 Barge Close or any number up to about 8 or 9.
So, no giving a full address isn't that exact. But more to the point, you miss the point that the law says otherwise for those this does apply to - so Valve set it up to be global across the board, much in the same way the refund policy was changed after EU law and a few other countries got digital content consumer law changed.
And yet again, I don't get why people are so worried about this - You can't make any noticeable damage from knowing someone's name and address only. And that's even assuming Valve would share that data, when by Data Protection law has to be encrypted anyway.
You guys pay VAT which is a county tax, any postal code in the UK is sufficient. In the US, sales tax is done by state and zip codes don't cross state borders.
No, postal code is sufficient enough for sales tax purposes.
THIS. ALL OF THIS. :D
you keep saying this. go on ... prove it. i KNOW you cant. its an opinion and there are no facts to support it. none.
in the other thread we noted there are 2 laws.
law one: says there is a list of data points and any 2 non contradictory points are enough. ip address and our self declaration of location is sufficient for both. steam doesnt need to PROVE our location, its not a court of law. a good faith is all that is required.
law two: says that the effort to obtain tax information should as non invasive as possible and not used as an attempt to obtain information that is otherwise not needed with privacy of the user being the over-riding concern.
but lets pretend you are right. you arent, but lets pretend.
lets pretend they DO need more.
e-commerce taxes are collected on either a national or state/district level.
in other words
if its national than its france or spain. where in france or spain doesnt matter. its france or spain. at that point there is no more data to be gathered beyond country.
or
its on a state/district level in which case its california or its nevada. at that point no more data need be gathered.
but there is an exception. its the city of chicago in illinois. it was granted the right to collect this tax to avoid bankruptcy, its being challenged in court, and NO OTHER CITY IN WORLD COLLECTS e-commerce tax.
and even if if it were in chicago steam does NOT need to know our street address or zip code or even name.
there is absolutely zero reason or need for valve to collect our address. none. its not a physical good (in most cases) so its not something valve would collect in the normal order of business (as would say an amazon) therefore since it has to go out of its way to obtain the information it is invasive and is indeed using a tax law as a pretense to try to obtain personal information it doesnt need. sooner or later the eu will pivot and levy an epic smack down for this.
go on PROVE to us that valve absolutely NEEDS that address. go on... ill wait...
The tax authority in each country where VAT applies decides what documentation they demand.
Valve and similar companies are obliged to collect said tax on behalf of the countries that levy it, in this case EU countries.
What each EU country wants as documentation is incribed in national laws and regulations, it isn't in an EU directive.
And your analogy with the postcal code doesn't work. Revenue agencies will demand samples of these data to determine if they look solid. If not the revenue agency has the power to write a bill to Valve based on the revenue agency's estimate of the amount of VAT owed. So companies want to avoid this.
Demanding a full address is one step on the way to ensure that people are taxed correctly. Instead of people jumping through hoops to fake that they live in countries where prices and taxes are lower. I collected the same data on all sales back when I ran my employer's webshop in Denmark.
You had to ask a Valve Employee?
I dont believe other Platforms do this, & I am not buying this info the Valve Employee had told you...
No Laws were made to make this a Requirement... Not that I was aware of...
Also, the whole Privacy issue was Disbanded back in March, due to the Corona Virus outbreak, but companies still continue to collect Private Info from their Customers...
Some News Reporters & some Celeberties were even starting to ask the question...
What all this Private Data being collected is even for? Even they are starting to worry about it...