Why all the Steam hate?

[MaddSkillz]

So I get the angst of players that perhaps came recent to Steam (or have been here a bit) and now compare it to Epic, but frankly if not for Steam there would not be any online PC market places at all. Uplay, Origin, Battlenet, Epic - now maybe Verizon and Google - they are all riding off Steam.

Sure Steam could improve, it does all the time. But no way im going to run 6+ more? game platforms to run my games (165 on Steam alone). Simply having all my games in one location, that get updated all the time for various OS, driver or other content update, is a massive benefit. Beats the BS of having to search for updates once a upon a time.

Yes not perfect. But so much better than it used to be (piss off i know im likely older than most) but still has a lot of upside.

Peace

[crunchyfrog]

İlk olarak -$ilver- tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak crunchyfrog tarafından gönderildi:

No, you're missing the point I was making.

I understand why people prefer to go to certain stores. I always shop at Sainbury's and refuse to use Tesco.

I'm talking about FANDOM.

Plus, loyalty is a rather silly thing. A lot of customers think it means something, but it's actually only relevant to them really.

Is there really a difference between loyalty and fandom though? Where is the line drawn? It all seems a bit murky to me. Unless we go into troll territory, where someone will praise something only to be different.

I hate loyalty cards at shopping centers myself. Maybe because they want your info usually at time of purchase or just because I find it strange that I can only get the discounts if I have their silly little card. If I can not get the discount normally, which their discounts are really not all that great to begin with, why would I bother shopping with them? And if it is as easy as just accepting their customer loyalty card and virtually anyone can do it, what is the need for it? Just give me the damn discount at time of check out. I feel the same way about coupons as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3tZRU0ZwE&pbjreload=102

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in12THaZvss&pbjreload=102

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6YEpXS_ugU&pbjreload=102

Yes there is, at least in the way that I'm talking about.

Fandom tends to be an all or nothing partisanship where logic and reality go out the window and YOUR choice does things right and the others don't. I'm not saying all fans behave this way, but the more you go that way, the more you employ such tactics.

As for "loyalty" it gets thrown around by people who are entitled. We see it on these forums occasionally. the old "I'm a loyal customer and I deserve better" types of thing. Thos are usually that the person has chosne to use the service for years and thinks that actually is meant to mean something.


So yes, entirely separate things.

[Crazy Tiger]

İlk olarak -$ilver- tarafından gönderildi:

Is there really a difference between loyalty and fandom though? Where is the line drawn?

There isn't. But there is a difference between blind loyalty (fandom) and a mere preference.

[CatG0d]

The only client i have installed other then steam is Battlenet and that is because when Black Ops Cold War released it was not on steam, and in all honesty i was really mad about that.
I love steam, it's far better then all other platforms.

[Soupy Doorman]

Tesco own brand stuff is usally cheap watery crap.

I prefer the sausages from Asda.

Sainsburys has better stuff but they usually cost a bit more.

Myself I find the best frozen fried chicken mini fillets are the ones in the red boxes at Home Bargains.

I have got about 15 Free games on my Epic Store account, but I've not installed it because GTAV is already taking up 15% of my hard drive space.

I am quite happy with Steam.

[crunchyfrog]

İlk olarak Rad Coyote tarafından gönderildi:

Tesco own brand stuff is usally cheap watery crap.

I prefer the sausages from Asda.

Sainsburys has better stuff but they usually cost a bit more.

Myself I find the best frozen fried chicken mini fillets are the ones in the red boxes at Home Bargains.

I have got about 15 Free games on my Epic Store account, but I've not installed it because GTAV is already taking up 15% of my hard drive space.

I am quite happy with Steam.

Blimey - that's a pretty comprehensive answer - fair play to you.

[-$ilver-]

If we are talking grocery stores, I prefer Winco rather than Kroger, Tom Thumb, Aldi, Walmart, Target, Whole Foods, etc. If Winco was closer I would just shop there, but since they are not I do go to Fiesta from time to time. Winco has a rather large selection of bulk foods and dry bins. I would of assumed Whole Foods would have an even bigger one, but they have a short single row, while Winco has rows and rows with scoopable bins and top pull down ones. Beans, rices, and other grains I did not even know existed can be found there. Bamboo rice tastes like green tea. ^^! Their vegetables are decently priced. In fact just about everything is decently priced. Only time I will shop somewhere else is out of convenience or I need a specific Asian ingredient. Thankfully we have several Asian stores around all in close proximity.

[crunchyfrog]

İlk olarak -$ilver- tarafından gönderildi:

If we are talking grocery stores, I prefer Winco rather than Kroger, Tom Thumb, Aldi, Walmart, Target, Whole Foods, etc. If Winco was closer I would just shop there, but since they are not I do go to Fiesta from time to time. Winco has a rather large selection of bulk foods and dry bins. I would of assumed Whole Foods would have an even bigger one, but they have a short single row, while Winco has rows and rows with scoopable bins and top pull down ones. Beans, rices, and other grains I did not even know existed can be found there. Bamboo rice tastes like green tea. ^^! Their vegetables are decently priced. In fact just about everything is decently priced. Only time I will shop somewhere else is out of convenience or I need a specific Asian ingredient. Thankfully we have several Asian stores around all in close proximity.

Ohh, here's a question I've been longing to ask.

We have Aldi here in Britain (I know it's a German (?) company). What's it like for you as regards food quality?

Over here it's a mixed bag, as it doesn't really cover named brands much, and while their own stuff can be pretty nasty cheap crap, their fruit and veg is astonishingly good. Better than almost every other supermarket.

And I'm an ex fruit and veg trader, so this is something dear to my heart.

[-$ilver-]

İlk olarak crunchyfrog tarafından gönderildi:

Ohh, here's a question I've been longing to ask.

We have Aldi here in Britain (I know it's a German (?) company). What's it like for you as regards food quality?

Over here it's a mixed bag, as it doesn't really cover named brands much, and while their own stuff can be pretty nasty cheap crap, their fruit and veg is astonishingly good. Better than almost every other supermarket.

And I'm an ex fruit and veg trader, so this is something dear to my heart.

I am probably not the person to ask... I know others that swear by them. I went all excited, mind you this was years ago but this is when everyone was excited and I hardly bought anything when I was there. I did not find it cheap. You have to pay or bring your own bags. You have to have a quarter for the shopping carts, as they lock into one another. It just seemed weird to me. I have never been back.

When I brought this up to those that were so happy about the store, I was told at that point they have cheap milk and eggs... I am not going to drive to a store just for cheap milk and eggs, both of which, even back in the day I hardly used anyway. *sigh*

I honestly do not remember much about that place, minus they had pallets on the floor you just grabbed stuff off of. I do not remember much about their fresh fruits and vegetables. I was not into healthy eating back then as I am now. Now Feista has a really nice selection of fresh fruits and vegetables. But like I said, so too does Winco. But I really can not say much about Aldi.

[Xaelath]

İlk olarak crunchyfrog tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak -$ilver- tarafından gönderildi:

Isn't that the majority on Steam though too? ^^! If it was like it was back it the day, where even older games still sold for at least $20 on the shelves unless you just happened to be lucky at a bargain bin, most of us would not have any where near the Steam libraries that we do today. In fact not even a quarter of it. Physical copies are expensive. Steam in general is usually cheaper, but their sales are much more awesome!

As far as EGS is concerned, they could give me every free game out there to use their product and I still would not. I have no interest in them. I will stick with Steam. If Steam get's their older games working, I would not even have to think about cheating on the side with GOG...

Yeah, fair point. Kassandra's post is nothing more than the same fanboyism but from the other direction.

They're SHOPS. WHy should anyone be a fan of a shop?

To protect what they thinks right or good?

The difference that Epic fan mostly wanted a free games. You can go to their Twitter or most site and it'll cover about either people wanting free games or upcoming free games.

Not a better community because Epic has none of it.
You bought game and you'll not get a single community support there due the lack of guide (epic rely on 3rd party site), workshop , forums or community reviews (epic calling such feature toxic) and probably multiplayer itself (very low purchasing user) for some smaller games.

Likewise some users may think they don't even use some of these features but ironically it's what make some games alive.

And when people does talk about pricing, epic hasn't support most of country currency. They do support regional pricing but they do not have steam convenient wallet and payment system.
Some developing country does not have credit card to make a purchase.
They rely on 3rd party sellers that's slightly expensive than buying straight from steam to fill their steam wallet. (Digital Steamgift card)

Steam hate? Nah. More like "12/88 think about the developer."

[WhiteKnight]

İlk olarak Xaelath tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak crunchyfrog tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah, fair point. Kassandra's post is nothing more than the same fanboyism but from the other direction.

They're SHOPS. WHy should anyone be a fan of a shop?

To protect what they thinks right or good?

The difference that Epic fan mostly wanted a free games. You can go to their Twitter or most site and it'll cover about either people wanting free games or upcoming free games.

Not a better community because Epic has none of it.
You bought game and you'll not get a single community support there due the lack of guide (epic rely on 3rd party site), workshop , forums or community reviews (epic calling such feature toxic) and probably multiplayer itself (very low purchasing user) for some smaller games.

Likewise some users may think they don't even use some of these features but ironically it's what make some games alive.

And when people does talk about pricing, epic hasn't support most of country currency. They do support regional pricing but they do not have steam convenient wallet and payment system.
Some developing country does not have credit card to make a purchase.
They rely on 3rd party sellers that's slightly expensive than buying straight from steam to fill their steam wallet. (Digital Steamgift card)

Steam hate? Nah. More like "12/88 think about the developer."

I agree. If Steam did not have regional pricing & local payment support i wouldn't care much about steam. Since they do and the only storefront do so is why i love steam but then i get called has "steam fanboy" or "fanatic".

I do love other steam features as well such has workshop & guides. The forum is mixed though but it has helped me a lot with trouble-shooting and solution to a level. Steam market made me some money which gave a chance to buy games and also i love i can read patch notes and other info all in one place

I did wish Valve would rework steam achievements similar to battle.net.

Has for proton, remote play, steam input, big picture, vr & family sharing. I haven't touched them so i can't say if they need improvement but all i can say is that Valve done an excellent job with Steam and helped PC gaming immensely unlike other companies such has Epic Games & Ubisoft who only whined about piracy and other's.

12/88 is good and all but just because Epic Games does it does not mean other should follow especially steam.

Also Tim Swiney wanted Valve to take 8% cut https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-revenue-cut-tim-sweeney

Also this is pretty good video that everyone should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvr02SiHY4

[-$ilver-]

The only reason Tim argues the price, is not about helping gamers or devs, but helping his platform. He is willingly taking that price drop in order to undercut the competition to making it seem like he cares and have sympathy and bring potential players to him. It is not working as had hoped however, as people around the world still flock to Steam and other digital sites.

Steam is just all around better. Granted they have had time to evolve, but they have it known what they do and others can take inspiration from it, but they choose not to. The best thing for Epic gamers IS Steam, because with Steam, at least they have a place to discuss games and a voice. Even those they praise at Epic do not give them that. They are nothing, but a paycheck to EGS.

[crunchyfrog]

İlk olarak Xaelath tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak crunchyfrog tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah, fair point. Kassandra's post is nothing more than the same fanboyism but from the other direction.

They're SHOPS. WHy should anyone be a fan of a shop?

To protect what they thinks right or good?

The difference that Epic fan mostly wanted a free games. You can go to their Twitter or most site and it'll cover about either people wanting free games or upcoming free games.

Not a better community because Epic has none of it.
You bought game and you'll not get a single community support there due the lack of guide (epic rely on 3rd party site), workshop , forums or community reviews (epic calling such feature toxic) and probably multiplayer itself (very low purchasing user) for some smaller games.

Likewise some users may think they don't even use some of these features but ironically it's what make some games alive.

And when people does talk about pricing, epic hasn't support most of country currency. They do support regional pricing but they do not have steam convenient wallet and payment system.
Some developing country does not have credit card to make a purchase.
They rely on 3rd party sellers that's slightly expensive than buying straight from steam to fill their steam wallet. (Digital Steamgift card)

Steam hate? Nah. More like "12/88 think about the developer."

For example, trying to paint Epic in a better light on the percentage cut is just plain wrong. Valve are not the bad guy here for once. Their 30% cut is very much the STANDARD that Sony, MS, Nintendo and others all employ. Tim Sweeneny is just deliberately trying to make waves to push his way into the market.

We know this not just from the simple fact that the loss leaders of free games CANNOT be a viable proposition for long, so using any growth, customer satisfaction or most any metric is tainted because you cannot remove that factor yet.

Furthermore, one only has to look at that daft Apple legal case. They KNEW what they were doing by deliberately breaking their AGREEMENT by altering Fortnite. They had a snarky video made up ready for this.

They are NOT saviours by any stretch, and anyone who thinks that or claims that is delusional or ignorant of how things work.

This of course, does not mean I'm saying Valve is better. I have no opinion of ANY of the shops. That's the point.


Although having said all this, there is some defence I'm going to give to Epic. That is regarding the payment options and a few other features. These are early days for the store and such things like payment options aren't easy to get off the ground internationally right off the bat.

As regards the other features, such as the community, then yeah that's something they could have and should have easily implemented that beforehand. They rushed this out.

But payments are different as a lot of that relies on services beyond your control. Payment processors, whether recognised banks or third party payment providers ca be a minefield to get organized with. There's also other endemic problems, such as if you get enough fraud cases or stolen payment cards charged back to you, not only do you get a fee each time, but enough can temporarily have your payment facility revoked for that payment provider.

So, on that point alone I give them a bit of leeway.

[crunchyfrog]

İlk olarak WhiteKnight tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Xaelath tarafından gönderildi:

To protect what they thinks right or good?

The difference that Epic fan mostly wanted a free games. You can go to their Twitter or most site and it'll cover about either people wanting free games or upcoming free games.

Not a better community because Epic has none of it.
You bought game and you'll not get a single community support there due the lack of guide (epic rely on 3rd party site), workshop , forums or community reviews (epic calling such feature toxic) and probably multiplayer itself (very low purchasing user) for some smaller games.

Likewise some users may think they don't even use some of these features but ironically it's what make some games alive.

And when people does talk about pricing, epic hasn't support most of country currency. They do support regional pricing but they do not have steam convenient wallet and payment system.
Some developing country does not have credit card to make a purchase.
They rely on 3rd party sellers that's slightly expensive than buying straight from steam to fill their steam wallet. (Digital Steamgift card)

Steam hate? Nah. More like "12/88 think about the developer."

I agree. If Steam did not have regional pricing & local payment support i wouldn't care much about steam. Since they do and the only storefront do so is why i love steam but then i get called has "steam fanboy" or "fanatic".

I do love other steam features as well such has workshop & guides. The forum is mixed though but it has helped me a lot with trouble-shooting and solution to a level. Steam market made me some money which gave a chance to buy games and also i love i can read patch notes and other info all in one place

I did wish Valve would rework steam achievements similar to battle.net.

Has for proton, remote play, steam input, big picture, vr & family sharing. I haven't touched them so i can't say if they need improvement but all i can say is that Valve done an excellent job with Steam and helped PC gaming immensely unlike other companies such has Epic Games & Ubisoft who only whined about piracy and other's.

12/88 is good and all but just because Epic Games does it does not mean other should follow especially steam.

Also Tim Swiney wanted Valve to take 8% cut https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-revenue-cut-tim-sweeney

Also this is pretty good video that everyone should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvr02SiHY4

Except I can see why people say this if you're going to come out the gate with a fallacy right up front.

Steam has regional pricing? Yes, it does. But WHO sets the regional pricing? The only people who LEGALLY CAN - the devs or publishers.

So very wrong then.

[Xaelath]

İlk olarak WhiteKnight tarafından gönderildi:

Has for proton, remote play, steam input, big picture, vr & family sharing. I haven't touched them so i can't say if they need improvement but all i can say is that Valve done an excellent job with Steam and helped PC gaming immensely unlike other companies such has Epic Games & Ubisoft who only whined about piracy and other's.

12/88 is good and all but just because Epic Games does it does not mean other should follow especially steam.

Also Tim Swiney wanted Valve to take 8% cut https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam-revenue-cut-tim-sweeney

Also this is pretty good video that everyone should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrvr02SiHY4

It's hard to not hate steam when all the features they offered barely offered in any other platforms including Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo combined.

In all honesty I wouldn't've mind buying games on Epic if the game pricing were cheaper but there's no useful information listed there.
I can't find community review or forum to see problems if there's any mainly for bugs. If it's multiplayer that would've been even harder because you would never know if there's even any player that could help you in game which force you to find one in a 3rd party community such as discord assuming if they even have the game in Epic.

If the person an actual legit customer they won't care about the split revenue. The quality is all that matters.
The split only benefit the publisher but that split means nothing if no one is buying it. Hence ofc the infamous Epic "bribe" or Paid Exclusivity brought in the table.
To solve this issue epic also tried to bring a customer by offering free games and which certainly doesn't work out great because People know Epic lack features to be even compete against steam.
So in that process people just wait and play other games on steam with the endless backlog like many users have.

These hate we're talking about is very interesting nonetheless.
Even before Epic Game Store exist, people still blaming Valve for offering crap sales, ♥♥♥♥ seasonal sales, crap customer service, 99% rant from people who got VACed or lost their item because phishing site, malware etc.

For this thread to exist, it was taken After EGS announced and public started to think that steam is unworthy to take the 30% revenue.

The real question is why? Why steam doesn't allowed to take 30% revenue when the other does?
Was it because it only offer digital goods? Offer not benefit to publisher or developer?
These questions were never answered by the developer.
But I am sure it is greed on both side.
I do agree that at least smaller publisher should be offered about 20/80% split instead of 30. But that's just it.

[crunchyfrog]

No I doubt it's greed, Xaelath.

It's just the standard. And not just in video games too. Other forms of publishing have 30% as a de facto default too.

Epic, however, sowed this myth that Valve and Apple bad because they're the ones doing 30%, lying by ommission.