Can you sell your games for a % back or trade with others?

[stretchh3o]

Not trying to get cash, but Steam credit to buy other games on here. So if I wanted to sell back or trade with others, games I can't run on this computer. Like Resident Evil 5 for example. Won't run on here and I also have it on PS4, so its kind of a dead link in my library... among some others. I don't use this platform very often so I'm not too savvy on how everything works.

[RiO]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

RiO

Answer me this.

- Can you sell gym membership you own to someone else in the EU?
- Can you transfer a health, home owners or life insurance policy without the express consent of trhe providing party in the EU?

On the subject of the gym membership; no. Because it's not a product. It's a service.
Hence why Steam and other platforms cleverly reworded their terms of service such that they are providing you the service of making available a license, rather than selling you the actual license.

(The question is whether that clever little trick will be upheld in a court of law, as I mentioned, since they continue to hold up the charade of actual purchase on the storefront.)


On the subject of the insurance policies: probably not. Financial products, including insurances, are quite oftenly explicitly taken out of the scope of such laws. E.g. consumer protection laws regarding distance sale; conformity; etc. also generally do not apply to financial products.

[cinedine]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

RiO

Answer me this.

- Can you sell gym membership you own to someone else in the EU?
- Can you transfer a health, home owners or life insurance policy without the express consent of trhe providing party in the EU?

What does this has to do with anything?

There was EU court ruling regarding the sell of licenses for software. The ruling was in favor of selling them. The ruling explicitely elevated digital copies to the status of physical media.

They didn't rule on a blanket case of licenses or services. They particularly ruled on software licenses. In the terms of D&D: Specific Beats General.

[RiO]

Diposting pertama kali oleh cinedine:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

RiO

Answer me this.

- Can you sell gym membership you own to someone else in the EU?
- Can you transfer a health, home owners or life insurance policy without the express consent of trhe providing party in the EU?

What does this has to do with anything?

There was EU court ruling regarding the sell of licenses for software. The ruling was in favor of selling them. The ruling explicitely elevated digital copies to the status of physical media.

They didn't rule on a blanket case of licenses or services. They particularly ruled on software licenses. In the terms of D&D: Specific Beats General.

^ And yes. You are correct, ofcourse.

[Start_Running]

Diposting pertama kali oleh cinedine:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

RiO

Answer me this.

- Can you sell gym membership you own to someone else in the EU?
- Can you transfer a health, home owners or life insurance policy without the express consent of trhe providing party in the EU?

What does this has to do with anything?

There was EU court ruling regarding the sell of licenses for software. The ruling was in favor of selling them. The ruling explicitely elevated digital copies to the status of physical media.

They didn't rule on a blanket case of licenses or services. They particularly ruled on software licenses. In the terms of D&D: Specific Beats General.

what it has to do with it is that since the second hand buyer has not entered a contract directly with the publisher the publisher is under no legal onus to provide access to the services. That at least seems to be the angle Bethesda looks to be approaching it from.

[cinedine]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

Diposting pertama kali oleh cinedine:

What does this has to do with anything?

There was EU court ruling regarding the sell of licenses for software. The ruling was in favor of selling them. The ruling explicitely elevated digital copies to the status of physical media.

They didn't rule on a blanket case of licenses or services. They particularly ruled on software licenses. In the terms of D&D: Specific Beats General.

what it has to do with it is that since the second hand buyer has not entered a contract directly with the publisher the publisher is under no legal onus to provide access to the services. That at least seems to be the angle Bethesda looks to be approaching it from.

How about reading up on the ruling yourself? Something you quite obviously rarely do before entering futile arguments.
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=124564&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=2586150

Accordding to the ruling "the rightsholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy" [77]. Digital goods are fully applicable for the first sale doctrine.

Also

In this respect, it must be observed that the downloading of a copy of a computer program and the conclusion of a user licence agreement for that copy form an indivisible whole. Downloading a copy of a computer program is pointless if the copy cannot be used by its possessor. Those two operations must therefore be examined as a whole for the purposes of their legal classification

[44]

[RiO]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

Diposting pertama kali oleh cinedine:

What does this has to do with anything?

There was EU court ruling regarding the sell of licenses for software. The ruling was in favor of selling them. The ruling explicitely elevated digital copies to the status of physical media.

They didn't rule on a blanket case of licenses or services. They particularly ruled on software licenses. In the terms of D&D: Specific Beats General.

what it has to do with it is that since the second hand buyer has not entered a contract directly with the publisher the publisher is under no legal onus to provide access to the services.

Except the publisher is infact under said legal onus.

The ruling that decided the right of resale applies to digital content, specifically made mention of the fact that the new license holder is entitled to anything covered by the original license purchase; including the right to download the software via the given means of distribution such as downloading off of a website; including any right to updates/patches; and including any right to services tied to the license such as e.g. cloud storage.

What is being sold is everything under the original purchase as per the contract of sale, which may include access to all those things and/or more. And if the original supplier refuses to give the new owner access, they are in breach of contract.

[Start_Running]

Well then should be interesting to see how this plays out.

[RiO]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Start_Running:

Well then should be interesting to see how this plays out.

That's why I wrote it would be quite a shocker for the digital distribution eco-system if a case for this ever would go to court. Let alone if it would rule in favor of the consumers, which has reasonably non-zero odds.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

why would you want to resell digital games , reselling basically is this :
you pay 60€ on release , play a game once quickly so it doesnt lose as much value
you sell it for 10-30€ . you lose access to the game and 30-50€ ,if you want to play the game a few more times , it will lose more value and if you want to ever play the game again you need to rebuy it and you end up paying more

if you just want to play game once you shouldnt get it on release anyway wait for a sale and you save the amount of money you would have gotten back for reselling

[cinedine]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ryuko Matoi:

why would you want to resell digital games , reselling basically is this :
you pay 60€ on release , play a game once quickly so it doesnt lose as much value
you sell it for 10-30€ . you lose access to the game and 30-50€ ,if you want to play the game a few more times , it will lose more value and if you want to ever play the game again you need to rebuy it and you end up paying more

if you just want to play game once you shouldnt get it on release anyway wait for a sale and you save the amount of money you would have gotten back for reselling

Not everybody plays through games multiple times (or even once).
- buy new game for 60 bucks
- play through
- sell game for 30 bucks
- buy new new game for 60 bucks (actually just 30)
- play through
- sell game for 30 bucks
- buy third new game for 60 bucks (actually just 30)
- sell game
...

Played three new releases for 120 instead of 180 bucks. Didn't get spoiled, didn't have to wait for 50 % off sale.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Diposting pertama kali oleh cinedine:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ryuko Matoi:

why would you want to resell digital games , reselling basically is this :
you pay 60€ on release , play a game once quickly so it doesnt lose as much value
you sell it for 10-30€ . you lose access to the game and 30-50€ ,if you want to play the game a few more times , it will lose more value and if you want to ever play the game again you need to rebuy it and you end up paying more

if you just want to play game once you shouldnt get it on release anyway wait for a sale and you save the amount of money you would have gotten back for reselling

Not everybody plays through games multiple times (or even once).
- buy new game for 60 bucks
- play through
- sell game for 30 bucks
- buy new new game for 60 bucks (actually just 30)
- play through
- sell game for 30 bucks
- buy third new game for 60 bucks (actually just 30)
- sell game
...

Played three new releases for 120 instead of 180 bucks. Didn't get spoiled, didn't have to wait for 50 % off sale.

so you pay 120 bucks for 1 single game , thats a really bad deal , especially if that game ends up being short or simply not good

selling game is never a good idea , you want to know how many gamecube games i sold over the years and later repurchased ? ALOT

i didnt make money from it at all , i just lost alot money

also if you arent completely poor , it shouldnt be a problem to buy a game for 60 bucks , or if you are a clever customer , you wait for a 50% sale and get it for 30 bucks which will be around the same as if you resold the game , with the difference you get to keep the game and half of your money

[Mikasa Ackerman]

the big problem you people dont see with used games its like this

Pay Money -> get game
resell game -> get only a percentage of the money back and lose game

you buy 10 games for 60 bucks (600 bucks )
you resell all of them and get 30 bucks back
you lost 300 bucks and all games aswell
you basically gifted the store half of your money for nothing

[Start_Running]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Ryuko Matoi:

the big problem you people dont see with used games its like this

Pay Money -> get game
resell game -> get only a percentage of the money back and lose game

you buy 10 games for 60 bucks (600 bucks )
you resell all of them and get 30 bucks back
you lost 300 bucks and all games aswell
you basically gifted the store half of your money for nothing

This assumes the person placed value on continued ownership. For them it's basically a $30 unlimitred play rental. I get where you're coming from. It can be a hard concept to wrap your head around if liuke myself you only buy things that you want to own and keep around.

[Wolf Knight]

I am kinda surprised people are throwing around such a high number for the % you get back from selling your games. Unless I missed something, Robot is planning on giving the dev's 70% of the resell, that leaves robot and the reseller 30% to split. So you are going to get (at best) 25% of the price for your game.

so you buy 10 games, $60 each (600 total)
resell them and get 15 each (150)
you spent 450 (instead of 300)

and this does assume the store only keeps 5% from all game sales.

[Start_Running]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Wolf Knight:

I am kinda surprised people are throwing around such a high number for the % you get back from selling your games. Unless I missed something, Robot is planning on giving the dev's 70% of the resell, that leaves robot and the reseller 30% to split. So you are going to get (at best) 25% of the price for your game.

so you buy 10 games, $60 each (600 total)
resell them and get 15 each (150)
you spent 450 (instead of 300)

and this does assume the store only keeps 5% from all game sales.

Pretty much and that is assuming you sell it back at the same price. and loa nd be hold you'd have to sell it at less than the full price.

Again if you're the kind of person who only plays a game once. it makes sense. you play the game and you get money that you can put towards your next game.