Um, Sales Tax? What?

[Muu]

Hello. Today I tried buying Dragon Quest 11 which costs $59.99, I have $60.50 on my account. When proceeding to the payment screen I was notified I was about $3 short. What in the world is this? I have never ever had this happen to me, I was always able to buy Steam games for their base price tag.

For details, I live in Ohio, United States. Is this something from Square Enix (being Japanese market), Steam, or a new local tax in my state? Thanks.

[nullable]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/declaration-of-non-dependents/

I always thought this was an interesting example of tax shenanigans.

引用自 sfnhltb：

Well just note that when everyone is evading taxes (in this case while buying things online and then not declaring them in their annual tax returns), it usually isn't worth it for the government chasing down so many people, it would just clog up the courts.

However with these changes, probably it will mean the main bulk of tax payers aren't evading taxes online because most major online retailers start paying the tax they owe for them, like most offline retailers do - so the list of people to chase for tax evasion gets smaller and the risk of action being taken against them increases.

I don't know that I'd expect state governments to hunt down people not paying sales taxes. I'd really have to think their interest primarily lies in getting most people to pay sales tax when they arguably ought to. And seeing that the only effective solution has been to require stores to collect sales tax to ensure that there is compliance that's probably where the laws and enforcement will (continue to) reside.

Enforcing sales tax on an individual level is too difficult namely because many transactions are done in cash and have no records to prove who bought that candy bar, jeans, or PC game. And even if you look at a person's bank statements, you can't tell by the transactions if tax was included or not. So again this really ends up being about amending the laws to force retailers into collecting sales tax like any brick and mortar store are required to do. And retailers that fail to comply and can be held accountable are a much easier target than individuals, at least given the current system of sales tax most states have.

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 Brockenstein：

I don't know that I'd expect state governments to hunt down people not paying sales taxes.

They wouldn't, but as you stated, they would go after the companies not collecting the taxes. Less work and fewer to go after.

[Count_Dandyman]

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

引用自 Brockenstein：

I don't know that I'd expect state governments to hunt down people not paying sales taxes.

They wouldn't, but as you stated, they would go after the companies not collecting the taxes. Less work and fewer to go after.

not to mention it could lead to them just bringing out heavy artillery and gutting the internet and its capabilities to shut off the possibility to do it in the first place.

[WolfEisberg]

引用自 Mustang Matt：

Most US States have had this as a law for online purchases for years but it has been up to each individual to report their online purchases and pay the applicable taxes.

You can see how that worked out so they are asking the online entities to do so now, just like a brick and mortar store, and if the online entity wishes to sell items to the residents of their state, they have to collect it.


Note: Steam is not charging you (they are not making this money) they are collecting it for your individual State.

My state is one of those states, I was always expected to put it on my tax filing every year any online transactions that I didn't pay taxes on.
I'm so glad that places around the internet that I buy stuff from have started to collect taxes. It was annoying going over all my online transactions and having to figure out what taxes I needed to pay on my tax return. Now I don't have to worry about doing that anymore.

[nullable]

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

They wouldn't, but as you stated, they would go after the companies not collecting the taxes. Less work and fewer to go after.

not to mention it could lead to them just bringing out heavy artillery and gutting the internet and its capabilities to shut off the possibility to do it in the first place.

That doesn't seem very realistic, we're talking state sales tax. Most companies will just be able to comply and the infrastructure to collect sales tax is already well established. It's not like the 50 different U.S. states, or a large enough coalition of them, are going to unite under the banner of sales taxes to destroy the Internet.

After all we've already let Google and Facebook, among others, do that way more effectively than any government bureaucracy ever could.

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 Brockenstein：

That doesn't seem very realistic, we're talking state sales tax. Most companies will just be able to comply and the infrastructure to collect sales tax is already well established. It's not like the 50 different U.S. states, or a large enough coalition of them, are going to unite under the banner of sales taxes to destroy the Internet.

After all we've already let Google and Facebook, among others, do that way more effectively than any government bureaucracy ever could.

Agreed. The worse I can see would be sites being blacklisted in some way.

[Count_Dandyman]

引用自 Brockenstein：

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

not to mention it could lead to them just bringing out heavy artillery and gutting the internet and its capabilities to shut off the possibility to do it in the first place.

That doesn't seem very realistic, we're talking state sales tax. Most companies will just be able to comply and the infrastructure to collect sales tax is already well established. It's not like the 50 different U.S. states, or a large enough coalition of them, are going to unite under the banner of sales taxes to destroy the Internet.

After all we've already let Google and Facebook, among others, do that way more effectively than any government bureaucracy ever could.

I know they aren't but if people start taking the view that "if we all go buy from stores that don't charge the taxes they can't come after all of us for it" the crackdown on sites not charging taxes will lead to them hosting themselves outside the US like several other types of forbidden sites already do.

Once it is decided those outside sites are causing enough trouble and taking away enough money that is when you will start seeing governments putting in physical connection barriers to prevent people connecting to them.

[dynastystar]

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

because 1 CAD =/= 1 USD

Correct, 1 CAD = 0,76 USD. Which would mean that a 59,99 USD game amounts to 79,36 CAD.

In ANY case, I'm not ever gonna be paying $100 for a game. I'll wait for a sale, wait for price cuts, wait for it to be in a bundle, etc. so that I'm not paying a whole day's paycheck to buy one game.

[nullable]

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

I know they aren't but if people start taking the view that "if we all go buy from stores that don't charge the taxes they can't come after all of us for it" the crackdown on sites not charging taxes will lead to them hosting themselves outside the US like several other types of forbidden sites already do.

Once it is decided those outside sites are causing enough trouble and taking away enough money that is when you will start seeing governments putting in physical connection barriers to prevent people connecting to them.

Several people have mentioned folks flocking towards online stores not charging sales tax and then also business moving outside the U.S. to avoid collecting sales tax. It's sales tax. The scenario your laying out just isn't realistic. Steam, Epic, EA, Blizzard aren't going to move offshore to avoid collecting sales taxes. They're not the ones paying sales tax anyway, we are, and it's a lot less effort to implement that than some of the gymnastics it would take to avoid doing that.

And if 25 years of websites not collecting sales tax hasn't caused them to "gut the internet", a small minority of people trying to get around it now isn't going to be the catalyst for it. After all for the majority that are going to comply, states will have gained (or regained) all that revenue. Fussing over some people willing to go to any lengths to avoid paying or collecting it is by far a secondary issue.

But I guess it all comes down to how you perceive consumers and companies on the Internet behaving as a result of these bills. It's been months already, several states have been collecting sales taxes, so where's that visible and documented exodus of businesses and the blustering on the parts of state governments to gut the Internet? If it hasn't happened already, when do you figure it will?

[Paratech2008]

Valve already had a deal where if you purchased $30 they'd drop off $5 of the bill and let you earn the ability to get another $5 off a $30 purchase. If the idea generated revenue they might do it in future sales like summer/winter.

I don't spend much directly on Steam, so a few dollars a month isn't that big of a deal to me. I pay 6% tax so far (Pennsylvania) and rarely spend over $50 a month. Even in the Lunar sale, I spent close to $30 after the $5 discount and tax.

[Chompman]

引用自 FeaR_TH3_Reap3R：

Plus with VPN's being so prevalent now, anyone can change their location to get around sales tax.

Using a vpn wont work if your shipping address is where they have to charge sales tax or it's based on the location you are buying from as it can vary.

Plus the entire vpn abuse and using it on steam will not end well for your account to get cheaper prices.

[Arcanua]

引用自 Satoru：

Steam is charging state taxes for states that require it

Ohio is one of them

https://www.tax.ohio.gov/sales_and_use/faqs/sales_basics.aspx

Sellers should collect the use tax on sales they make to Ohio residents. If an out-of-state seller has sufficient contact with the state (nexus), the seller is required to abide by Ohio's tax laws. Sellers who have nexus with Ohio are legally required to register, collect, and remit use tax, in the same way that the Ohio-based vendor collects and remits sales tax. Examples of activities that create nexus are: regularly having employees or other individuals operating in the state; making regular deliveries of tangible personal property into this state; or any other physical presence in Ohio. A large number of sellers who may not have nexus with Ohio register voluntarily, because they realize the collection of Ohio tax is a convenience and service to their customers, who otherwise would have to pay the tax directly to the state or risk formal assessment of the tax, penalties, and interest.

The Department of Taxation is encouraging out-of-state sellers to register and begin collecting Ohio use tax. Ohio has entered into cooperative agreements with the tax departments of a number of states. Under these agreements, the tax departments assist each other in locating and contacting vendors who make interstate sales

That is FALSE they require ALL states pay one now. It's been that way since what September of last year now? MI doesn't let you tax things yet Steam STILL charges one.

[WolfEisberg]

引用自 Tsukasa：

引用自 Satoru：

Steam is charging state taxes for states that require it

Ohio is one of them

https://www.tax.ohio.gov/sales_and_use/faqs/sales_basics.aspx

That is FALSE they require ALL states pay one now. It's been that way since what September of last year now? MI doesn't let you tax things yet Steam STILL charges one.

Michigan does charge sales tax for internet orders, even for out of state businesses, Been like that since October 2018.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/consumer/michigans-6-sales-tax-for-online-purchases-out-of-state-retailers-goes-into-effect

[Satoru]

引用自 Tsukasa：

That is FALSE they require ALL states pay one now. It's been that way since what September of last year now? MI doesn't let you tax things yet Steam STILL charges one.

Note that my post did not say "ALL states". It says "states that require it"

Michigan is one such state

https://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,4676,7-238-43519_43529-474288--,00.html

Consistent with Wayfair, effective after September 30, 2018, Treasury will require remote sellers with sales exceeding $100,000 to – or more than 200 transactions with – purchasers in Michigan in the previous calendar year to pay sales tax. Details of this policy change and the nexus standard for remote sellers are published in Revenue Administrative Bulletin 2018-16.

Unless you think your local gov website is lying Michigan absolutely requires steam to collect sales tax on MI residents for internet purchases

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

引用自 Tsukasa：

That is FALSE they require ALL states pay one now. It's been that way since what September of last year now?

Incorrect. My state still does not require online retailers to charge taxes.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1737303040