Why are developers exploiting the coming soon list?

[ｓｔａｒｓｋｙ]

This is pretty disgusting behaviour which has been pointed out to you more than once. You are literally taking away other developers fair share of time on the first few pages of upcoming games who are actually about to release their games.
This kind of obvious disregard from yourselves for anyone else releasing their games on Steam has thrown up major red flags and I will be avoiding your games and company in the future.
I hope Steam see what you are and have been doing and act accordingly.

[Taebrythn]

one thing they could do is if the date is changed have a feature that allows you not to change it so x amount of time a fix that would prevent that behavior

[ｓｔａｒｓｋｙ]

İlk olarak Taebrythn tarafından gönderildi:

one thing they could do is if the date is changed have a feature that allows you not to change it so x amount of time a fix that would prevent that behavior

true

[Aachen]

Well, yeah, but finding an appropriate x is the tough part, innit?

[Taebrythn]

İlk olarak Aachen tarafından gönderildi:

Well, yeah, but finding an appropriate x is the tough part, innit?

i don't think so. how often do you really need to change the date? so say 30 60 90 days would be better time frames. i think if there is an emergency then they would need to talk to steam staff. this way if there is a log it would solve all the issues.

[kawaiiyet]

There are so many game exploiting the Release Date.
Even worse are the mods who delete any mention of it in their Discussion page.
It really damages the trust.

Edit: I am not sure if it is the correct way of reporting when a game is using such shady tactics, but I have resorted to reporting them using the Flag on the Game Store Page.

[American Dove Mitten]

They can appear on the new releases page by changing the date, it’s actually pretty effective but I only see 4-5 devs do it per month.

Suprisugly I see a lot of decent games up there.

Considering how spammy the new releases are with shovelware, can I really blame someone for trying to appear at the top.

I would rather see Valve do something about trash devs publishing numerous bootlegs and jigsaw shovelware. You know, so a good game is visible.

[Start_Running]

İlk olarak American Beetle tarafından gönderildi:

They can appear on the new releases page by changing the date, it’s actually pretty effective but I only see 4-5 devs do it per month.

Suprisugly I see a lot of decent games up there.

Considering how spammy the new releases are with shovelware, can I really blame someone for trying to appear at the top.

I would rather see Valve do something about trash devs publishing numerous bootlegs and jigsaw shovelware. You know, so a good game is visible.

It is a sign that the developer is not very good though. The energy and time they put into manipulating the release date could be put into actually promoiting your game across social media, and such.

[laff]

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak laff tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah, I don't think it's such a big deal either, but I've also come to expect this sort of thing from the Steam store. I just think it should be addressed by Valve. It's comparable to manipulating or abusing the review system because the intended results are the same, more exposure or profit by deceitful practices and manipulation of the system.

It is in no way like manipulating the review system.

I literally explained how it was the same in principle in the text you quoted thus making it comparable.

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

Secondly, how would you propose valve do this in a manner that allows for timely publisher action, and does not flag genuine date changes? See that's the thing. Its an action that only ever harms the one doing it.

That's not my job. Just because you can't figure out a solution to a problem doesn't mean none exists. If Valve really valued their users' ideas or wanted to know that, they'd ask themselves for potential solutions; but they never post in these forums, they just let their fanboys shout everyone down instead.

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

but it's still a tag for the game, so reports clearly aren't effective.

CItation please?

Calm down, wikipedia. I can see the game, I've reported the tag, the tag is still applied to the game. Apparently it hasn't passed the threshold to be removed. Do you really think automated threshold-based reporting systems are perfect?

"Tags that reach a certain threshold of reports will be removed from the product."

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

As said though its not a big issue and only harms the one doing it. Cionstantly shuffling the release day makes you either look crooked or clueless...both will steer people away from the game purchase when it does release.

Most users don't visit the store that often and even less monitor the Steam store for abusive practices or publishers manipulating the system. That's something Valve should do. If you really think Valve shouldn't maintain quality control over their store for whatever reason, then that's your opinion.

[boxanata]

Just ignore the game or developer & move on. Any developer that needs to exploit the popular upcoming list isn't worth your time or your money.

[Start_Running]

İlk olarak laff tarafından gönderildi:

That's not my job. Just because you can't figure out a solution to a problem doesn't mean none exists. If Valve really valued their users' ideas or wanted to know that, they'd ask themselves for potential solutions; but they never post in these forums, they just let their fanboys shout everyone down instead.

Yeah but if you can't even venture a solution yourself that means you don't know much about the actual problem or the situation. Which basically brings up the question of whether or not the problem actually exists.

Calm down, wikipedia. I can see the game, I've reported the tag, the tag is still applied to the game. Apparently it hasn't passed the threshold to be removed. Do you really think automated threshold-based reporting systems are perfect?

"Tags that reach a certain threshold of reports will be removed from the product."

I notice you spend a lot of words not mentioning the name of the actual game. How strange. Usually when people expend more words to evade answering a request than it would take to answer...its not exactly a good sign.

Most users don't visit the store that often and even less monitor the Steam store for abusive practices or publishers manipulating the system. That's something Valve should do. If you really think Valve shouldn't maintain quality control over their store for whatever reason, then that's your opinion.

So by your own logic to the average user the behaviour actually has no real impact. So what you have is a few scrub devs wasting their time trying to game a system that has pretty much next to 0 impact on their actual sales or performance in the market While competent developers would never be relying on the upcoming listing in the first place and would be promoting their work via methods that generate tangible, persistent effects.

So basically what i said. The developers that do it are expending time and effort in something that will yield them virtually no gain, while competent devs are pretty much immune to the effects since their visibility is not reliant on such things.


I admit its a shady practice, but at the same time it hurts no competent developers and does not impact consumers negatively.

İlk olarak boxanata tarafından gönderildi:

Just ignore the game or developer & move on. Any developer that needs to exploit the popular upcoming list isn't worth your time or your money.

I've never understood why anyone even bothers with upcoming any way. I mean with things like delays, being a thing I don't put stock in anything until its actually bloody well released.

[laff]

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak laff tarafından gönderildi:

That's not my job. Just because you can't figure out a solution to a problem doesn't mean none exists. If Valve really valued their users' ideas or wanted to know that, they'd ask themselves for potential solutions; but they never post in these forums, they just let their fanboys shout everyone down instead.

Yeah but if you can't even venture a solution yourself that means you don't know much about the actual problem or the situation. Which basically brings up the question of whether or not the problem actually exists.

Yeah, I knew you'd interpret it that way (same as the other issue, which you could investigate for yourself easily). Valve doesn't care, I don't know why you think they do or why you spend so much of your free time white knighting them like this. If they wanted a potential solution or had any interest in fixing the issues brought up by the community, they'd post in the forums and ask for clarification on issues or potential solutions.

I'm gonna go play some games, have fun defending an exploit in the Steam store.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Aachen tarafından gönderildi:

What “abuse?”

Some sneaky devs will constantly alter the Release date of their product so it keeps in the most recent section. This can be as simple as delisting and relisting the item from the store.

Which is why I think an integrated approach that messes with exclusivity deals with Epic would be a good idea as they'd kill two birds with the same stone. By this I mean, they can't change the release date without approval and they have to give Valve a reason why they want it. Second, they have to launch on the release date even if it means it's launched as "early access." Like with release dates, they can't remove a game from the store page without contacting Valve explaining what the issue for it is, which will have to be verified before approval can be given so they can't pull a Tengen.

[Start_Running]

İlk olarak Riedy tarafından gönderildi:

I think Steam should just let developers set their release date once, if they choose to do that.
You can really only search upcoming titles by their release date (either starting with June 2019 or with TBA and going backwards) or by their name. I don't think that being released soon makes a game more visible, it doesn't have the same effect as the "new and trending" tab, but it still shouldn't be happening. Commit to a date or don't name it, it's really not that difficult to do.

YOur reason seems sound until one becomes aware of the reality of game development and release scheduling.

İlk olarak Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews. tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

Some sneaky devs will constantly alter the Release date of their product so it keeps in the most recent section. This can be as simple as delisting and relisting the item from the store.

Which is why I think an integrated approach that messes with exclusivity deals with Epic would be a good idea as they'd kill two birds with the same stone.

Dude seriously. Please try not to hijack the conversation. This literally has nothing to do with epic.

By this I mean, they can't change the release date without approval and they have to give Valve a reason why they want it. Second, they have to launch on the release date even if it means it's launched as "early access."

And you really think removing autonomy from your very needed business partners is a good idea? Really? You don't see any way that could basically become a self-inflicted nuke to the face?

İlk olarak laff tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah, I knew you'd interpret it that way (same as the other issue, which you could investigate for yourself easily). Valve doesn't care, I don't know why you think they do or why you spend so much of your free time white knighting them like this. If they wanted a potential solution or had any interest in fixing the issues brought up by the community, they'd post in the forums and ask for clarification on issues or potential solutions.

STill no actuall name of a game and if there was another context in which tro interpret that I'm all ears. Valve may indeed not care since care and effort are best reserved for things that actually matter, things that can have a positive or resolve a negative impact. This issue.. while a thing is basically as said, of no real impact. It does not actually help the delusional devs that do it, actually more likely to harm them, it doesn't impact actually competent developers, and fixing the problem in a way that doesn't screw over legit developers would be quite a pain.

Only think i could see them doing is including the release date history on a game's store page, a sort of mouse over dropdown deal wherein anyone can look and see how often the release date has be shifted. This could also benefit consumers where the game is accepting pre-orders.

I'm gonna go play some games, have fun defending an exploit in the Steam store.

You do that. debate and discussion seem to be a bit out of your wheelhouse.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Keep an eye out on this one...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/855740/Bum_Simulator/

This one has done it before...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/919640/Steel_Division_2/

A few date changes for SD2... https://steamdb.info/app/919640/history/

This one has been doing it but actually had info about the delay/bump...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/909970/Tech_Corp/

https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/featured-announcement/damien-cox/steams-popular-upcoming-list-is-being-exploited-by-some-developers/

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-03-06-developers-are-manipulating-steams-popular-upcoming-list

But as I said in my first reply, I'll let a mod say it again...

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/1850323802582969752/#c1850323802586382930

[laff]

İlk olarak Start_Running tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Riedy tarafından gönderildi:

I think Steam should just let developers set their release date once, if they choose to do that.
You can really only search upcoming titles by their release date (either starting with June 2019 or with TBA and going backwards) or by their name. I don't think that being released soon makes a game more visible, it doesn't have the same effect as the "new and trending" tab, but it still shouldn't be happening. Commit to a date or don't name it, it's really not that difficult to do.

YOur reason seems sound until one becomes aware of the reality of game development and release scheduling.

İlk olarak Ness_and_Sonic|Bye Reviews. tarafından gönderildi:

Which is why I think an integrated approach that messes with exclusivity deals with Epic would be a good idea as they'd kill two birds with the same stone.

Dude seriously. Please try not to hijack the conversation. This literally has nothing to do with epic.

By this I mean, they can't change the release date without approval and they have to give Valve a reason why they want it. Second, they have to launch on the release date even if it means it's launched as "early access."

And you really think removing autonomy from your very needed business partners is a good idea? Really? You don't see any way that could basically become a self-inflicted nuke to the face?

İlk olarak laff tarafından gönderildi:

Yeah, I knew you'd interpret it that way (same as the other issue, which you could investigate for yourself easily). Valve doesn't care, I don't know why you think they do or why you spend so much of your free time white knighting them like this. If they wanted a potential solution or had any interest in fixing the issues brought up by the community, they'd post in the forums and ask for clarification on issues or potential solutions.

STill no actuall name of a game and if there was another context in which tro interpret that I'm all ears. Valve may indeed not care since care and effort are best reserved for things that actually matter, things that can have a positive or resolve a negative impact. This issue.. while a thing is basically as said, of no real impact. It does not actually help the delusional devs that do it, actually more likely to harm them, it doesn't impact actually competent developers, and fixing the problem in a way that doesn't screw over legit developers would be quite a pain.

Only think i could see them doing is including the release date history on a game's store page, a sort of mouse over dropdown deal wherein anyone can look and see how often the release date has be shifted. This could also benefit consumers where the game is accepting pre-orders.

I'm gonna go play some games, have fun defending an exploit in the Steam store.

You do that. debate and discussion seem to be a bit out of your wheelhouse.

Kid, I explained the problem on the first page of this thread and gave a big hint to one possible solution. Grow up.